Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Arachnotronic]

Errr,So many socket upgrades between now and AMD's ZEN. With only a year or less away for ZEN I'd really hate to have to upgrade again after spending all this money on Intel's Skylake-K just to compete with AMD's ZEN.I would like to purchase something that will be futureproof enough to last for at leased 2-3 years and something that will be somewhat comparable to ZEN.
I just got that feeling ZEN is going to end up kicking some ass and taking names.
I dont mind Upgrading from a Skaylake-k 6700K to another CPU on the same socket but I really dont want to do all this socket hoping if you can understand everything I just said and make sense of my ramblings.

I think you'll be fine if you buy a Skylake-K in Q3 2015. You'll get ~1 year or so before Zen even comes out, and there's no guarantee that it'll be superior to your Skylake chip.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I think you'll be fine if you buy a Skylake-K in Q3 2015. You'll get ~1 year or so before Zen even comes out, and there's no guarantee that it'll be superior to your Skylake chip.

I seriously doubt it will even match skylake, except maybe in igp and heavy multithreaded apps. I am still expecting better single thread performance, maybe SB level, but it might be really powerful in multithreaded, especially since Intel wont give us six cores on the mainstream platform.

But it would never even cross my mind to pass up skylake waiting for Zen.

 

[Enigmoid]

I seriously doubt it will even match skylake, except maybe in igp and heavy multithreaded apps. I am still expecting better single thread performance, maybe SB level, but it might be really powerful in multithreaded, especially since Intel wont give us six cores on the mainstream platform.

But it would never even cross my mind to pass up skylake waiting for Zen.

The way I see it Zen may finally push intel into giving use hex cores on the mainstream desktop. Its been long enough and adding two broadwell cores (I am assuming skylake will be a similar size) only costs ~20-24 mm^2, on a 4C + GT2 die of ~105-120 mm^2 (compared to broadwell GT2 at 83 mm^2). Even if 10nm gets delayed, a skylake refresh to mainstream hex cores would be amazing (assuming the price isn't crazy).

Would not be hard or expensive for intel to do either.

 

[Arachnotronic]

The way I see it Zen may finally push intel into giving use hex cores on the mainstream desktop. Its been long enough and adding two broadwell cores (I am assuming skylake will be a similar size) only costs ~20-24 mm^2, on a 4C + GT2 die of ~105-120 mm^2 (compared to broadwell GT2 at 83 mm^2). Even if 10nm gets delayed, a skylake refresh to mainstream hex cores would be amazing (assuming the price isn't crazy).

Would not be hard or expensive for intel to do either.

I don't think they'll do that. Instead, I believe Intel will broaden the number of SKUs and price ranges on the HEDT. The platform will still come at a premium, but I'd expect six core to become the absolute baseline (and maybe come cheaper), and I would expect Intel to unlock some of the higher core count Xeons.

 

[Rebel44]

I hate the choice between latest architecture, but only 4 cores or 2 generations old tech with 6-8 cores. Because of that, I will wait, instead of getting an upgrade. My OCed 2600K will last a long time, unless Intel start selling something that is viable upgrade.

 

[Sweepr]

Errr,So many socket upgrades between now and AMD's ZEN. With only a year or less away for ZEN I'd really hate to have to upgrade again after spending all this money on Intel's Skylake-K just to compete with AMD's ZEN.I would like to purchase something that will be futureproof enough to last for at leased 2-3 years and something that will be somewhat comparable to ZEN.
I just got that feeling ZEN is going to end up kicking some ass and taking names.
I dont mind Upgrading from a Skaylake-k 6700K to another CPU on the same socket but I really dont want to do all this socket hoping if you can understand everything I just said and make sense of my ramblings.

Zen comes at least 1 year after Skylake and despite all the hype (just like any AMD launch) there's no guarantee that it will beat whatever Intel has to offer by then. In my personal oppinion it will still be considerably slower in terms of per core performance, possibly faster at highly MT tasks (4C/8T >4GHz Skylake Refresh vs 8C/16T Summit Ridge). AMD needs to prove it can deliver, not Intel.

 

[Abwx]

Zen comes at least 1 year after Skylake and despite all the hype .

You mean this kind of hype :

The leaked benchmarks *were* in comparison to 4790k. Almost 15% om 3d mark cpu and cinebench, but only 5% in pc mark 8

So let s see, a turkish site post a few graphs based on their estimations and all the Intel crowd immediatly take all thoses fake numbers at face value, nevermind that said site doesnt have any SL SKU, but anyway the reactions were funny as well as the hype that followed...

 

[Sweepr]

See, there's a difference between 15% higher IPC than Haswell and twice FX8350's performance at 95W in one gen. One is realistic, the other (until proven otherwise) is wishful thinking.

 

[NTMBK]

See, there's a difference between 15% higher IPC than Haswell and twice FX8350's performance at 95W in one gen. One is realistic, the other (until proven otherwise) is wishful thinking.

In all fairness, it's one really big generation, going from 32nm to 14nm But yes, definitely hopeful/wishful thinking.

 

[scannall]

See, there's a difference between 15% higher IPC than Haswell and twice FX8350's performance at 95W in one gen. One is realistic, the other (until proven otherwise) is wishful thinking.

I do think, that with a new process and a new design that SB IPC is within the realm of possibility though. It might be interesting to see that with 6 and 8 core overclockable chips. Since Intel doesn't seem to want to go over 4 cores for enthusiasts.

 

[Abwx]

See, there's a difference between 15% higher IPC than Haswell and twice FX8350's performance at 95W in one gen. One is realistic, the other (until proven otherwise) is wishful thinking.

We re talking of an incremental evolution for SL while the FX will be superceded by a design that is almost new, that said it could be possible that thoses 15% exist but if it was the case i think that we would had heard some news about it from Intel.

As for the competition, well, there s a thread where one can read that there s no comparison possible between a FX and a Zen in the uarch, the latter can be considered as being twice as big as the former, same as a Haswell 4C/8T and a 8C/16T Haswell-E, hence the 2 x.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Well I was considering going AMD ZEN at launch but I am just to scared to get screwed over again by AMD.I refuse to have another tlb bug or faulty unfinished cpu like the original AMD Phenom and FX8150 that I purchased back in the day.Both had potential or I thought but were Rushed out to the public broken.Never again is what I keep telling myself!! All though I have heard AMD's came along way with there 8300 FX line but even that came up kinda short This time I will play it safe and go the Intel route with the Skylake 6700K for my next system. Sorry I am not trying to start a flame war just venting my anger with past CPU problems that left a hugely bad taste in my mouth.But at the same time I am kind of excited to see what the new AMD ZEN has to offer.You know what I mean?

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well I was considering going AMD ZEN at launch but I am just to scared to get screwed over again by AMD.I refuse to have another tlb bug or faulty unfinished cpu like the original AMD Phenom and FX8150 that I purchased back in the day.Both had potential or I thought but were Rushed out to the public broken.Never again is what I keep telling myself!! All though I have heard AMD's came along way with there 8300 FX line but even that came up kinda short This time I will play it safe and go the Intel route with the Skylake 6700K for my next system. Sorry I am not trying to start a flame war just venting my anger with past CPU problems that left a hugely bad taste in my mouth.But at the same time I am kind of excited to see what the new AMD ZEN has to offer.You know what I mean?

Before you buy a system, don't you wait till there have been reviews of the CPU in it?

All the reviews showed how problematic those previous AMD chips were.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Well I was considering going AMD ZEN at launch but I am just to scared to get screwed over again by AMD.I refuse to have another tlb bug or faulty unfinished cpu like the original AMD Phenom and FX8150 that I purchased back in the day.Both had potential or I thought but were Rushed out to the public broken.Never again is what I keep telling myself!! All though I have heard AMD's came along way with there 8300 FX line but even that came up kinda short This time I will play it safe and go the Intel route with the Skylake 6700K for my next system. Sorry I am not trying to start a flame war just venting my anger with past CPU problems that left a hugely bad taste in my mouth.But at the same time I am kind of excited to see what the new AMD ZEN has to offer.You know what I mean?

I don't think AMD will put out a faulty product. It's just you said that you really want to upgrade as soon as possible because your current rig isn't cutting it.

Skylake will have great performance out of the box, it'll be available in August if the leaks are right, and I seriously doubt you'll regret the purchase.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Before you buy a system, don't you wait till there have been reviews of the CPU in it?

All the reviews showed how problematic those previous AMD chips were.

No I didnt used to,I was always an early adopter of new tech and usually bought the newest of new on release day ever since the days of AMD's 1700+.
I also dont mean AMD is complete garbage either I am just saying I wont be being a first adopter like normal with AMD tech any longer until I know for sure its a good buy.I actually happen to like my little APU HTPC's from AMD that I have, its just with my main rig I need something with a lot more Oomph to it for video editing work.Nothing from AMD right now is up for that kind of job.Only other option right now is play the waiting game for Skylake.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Nothing wrong being early adopter. But you should trust benchmarks rather than fairy tales.

Any buyer of the 8150 for example was completely blinded to any form of common sense.

 

[NTMBK]

No I didnt used to,I was always an early adopter of new tech and usually bought the newest of new on release day ever since the days of AMD's 1700+.
I also dont mean AMD is complete garbage either I am just saying I wont be being a first adopter like normal with AMD tech any longer until I know for sure its a good buy.I actually happen to like my little APU HTPC's from AMD that I have, its just with my main rig I need something with a lot more Oomph to it for video editing work.Nothing from AMD right now is up for that kind of job.Only other option right now is play the waiting game for Skylake.

Always wait for a review! Almost every tech company has put out an "amazing new product" that turned out to be a stinker (Phenom I, any non-Northwood Pentium 4, GTX 480, etc). Zen looks exciting, but I'm sure as heck not putting any money down until I've read a review

 

[Sweepr]

Nothing wrong being early adopter. But you should trust benchmarks rather than fairy tales.

Any buyer of the 8150 for example was completely blinded to any form of common sense.

Remmember this one was supposed to smoke a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2600K in MT tasks and match/beat Nehalem in ST tasks according to some users who are still around here. Expect the same from the ''theoretical'' Skylake comparisons later this year, well, until the actual benchmark results kicks in and reality knocks the door again.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remmember this one was supposed to smoke a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2600K in MT tasks and match/beat Nehalem in ST tasks according to some users who are still around here. Expect the same from the ''theoretical'' Skylake comparisons later this year, well, until the actual benchmark results kicks in and reality knocks the door again.

Excuses was in no short supply either. But yep, its a rerun. Same people, same result.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Excuses was in no short supply either. But yep, its a rerun. Same people, same result.

Was it the same people that thought AMD Zen was going to be a cat core successor?

And that the XBONE/PS4 was not going to use an APU?

And that AMD was going to exit the server CPU segment?

And that AMD process nodes would not start closing the gap with Intel at 14 nm and beyond?

And that AMD was going to aim at being a Via type of company?

...

 

[Ajay]

Excuses was in no short supply either. But yep, its a rerun. Same people, same result.

Some new people with a more realistic understanding of customer requirement. Clearly something learned for the mistake called Bulldozer. Better outcome is likely.

IMHO, Zen really could stop AMD's slide*. Million dollar question: will Zen help reverse AMD's slide?! I really don't have a clue based on the the very limited information recently leaked.

The real downside is the very public, anonymous "insider" leak of some Zen uarch info. I mean, really?! Didn't AMD learn from JFAMD's BD leaks? This episode alone makes me feel like a sucker for taking some time to read and talk about Zen D:



* The move to an Intel style quad core design, w/SMT, coupled with the density and perf/watt improvements enabled by Samsung's 14FF node bode well for AMD.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Oh I agree its a right way that could plug the hole. The question however is what will be left in late 2016 or 2017. Its obvious a product that nomatter what will continue its life in the semicustom business.

The primary goal of Zen must be performance/watt. Since this from a sales perspective is the weakest point of the construction cores and what the market demands. Ironic considering that AMDs last 2 success stories Bobcat and K8 was both due to the performance/watt metric. Dropping the failed CMT concept and moving to traditional designs and going for a much more low power oriented process helps as well. Its quite obvious that Zen comes from the mindset of the Cat cores.

The leaks sure raises some questions. Because it was very organized and I assume part of viral marketing. And its been so all the way back to Phenom. But its working on the short lane at least. The hype have reached the sky and continues towards space. Will it be able to deliver to those forum fantasies? Very unlikely to put it mildly.

When AMD had the K8, they made sure world and universe got to know its performance. Even if it had to be run on a 800Mhz prototype. Even Bobcat was benched a good time ahead of release.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Oh I agree its a right way that could plug the hole. The question however is what will be left in late 2016 or 2017. Its obvious a product that nomatter what will continue its life in the semicustom business.

The primary goal of Zen must be performance/watt. Since this from a sales perspective is the weakest point of the construction cores and what the market demands. Ironic considering that AMDs last 2 success stories Bobcat and K8 was both due to the performance/watt metric. Dropping the failed CMT concept and moving to traditional designs and going for a much more low power oriented process helps as well. Its quite obvious that Zen comes from the mindset of the Cat cores.

The leaks sure raises some questions. Because it was very organized and I assume part of viral marketing. And its been so all the way back to Phenom. But its working on the short lane at least. The hype have reached the sky and continues towards space. Will it be able to deliver to those forum fantasies? Very unlikely to put it mildly.

When AMD had the K8, they made sure world and universe got to know its performance. Even if it had to be run on a 800Mhz prototype. Even Bobcat was benched a good time ahead of release.

The leaks are very strange indeed; I have never seen slides from a company's financial analyst day leak ahead of time. You would think that this slide deck would be kept under lock and key.

 

[Sweepr]

Also note that the slides were leaked right after the first Skylake leaks. And we all know that AMD's x86 desktop/server launches are almost MIA in 2015, so they are trying to convince people to wait 1+ year for their new stuff. Expect new slides and perhaps a new ''JF-AMD'' representative posting in forums in the next few months.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Also note that the slides were leaked right after the first Skylake leaks. And we all know that AMD's x86 desktop/server launches are almost MIA in 2015, so they are trying to convince people to wait 1+ year for their new stuff. Expect new slides and perhaps a new ''JF-AMD'' representative posting in forums in the next few months.

Excellent point. Give out just enough details to keep people guessing so that they might hold off on buying an Intel chip.

Remember that people don't upgrade desktops every year; they're multi-year upgrade cycles. Most sales that Intel gets now will be to users who won't upgrade again for a couple of years. Wouldn't be surprised if AMD wants to get these people to hold off "just one more year."