Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[ShintaiDK]

"Reading is fundamental."
Sweepr posted it (the benchmark results), and I quoted it. Without overclocked RAM, Skylake is crippled.

So is Haswell. So is everything else as long as you can get any scaling from faster memory.

Is Haswell faster than Skylake? Certainly not.

Not true. Haswell barely mattered for benchmarks between DDR3-1600 and 2133 or 2400, other than a few synthetics. In the real world, it barely mattered.

Really? Isnt the average gain in games over 5%?

And? Who the F cares what it was validated against. What I'm talking about, is the CHIPSET LIMIT. 2133 is as far as she goes, without hacking the chipset to allow OC. (Which, MSI appears to be the only 1151 mobo maker to do this thus far.)

The entire industry cares what its validated against. Just stop picking the cheapest parts if you want OC. Its a classic rerun of wanting everything but not paying for it. Better they lowered the Z170 price and removed all the other options right? Because paying for the options you want is obviously bad. While all mobos would cost a lot more due to needing better components etc.

Could you show me the part with MSI?

 

[Magic Carpet]

No, what it shows it that the joke reviews that used DDR4-2133 bottlenecked Skylake real bad. Run both Skylake and Haswell with equal but higher clocked memory and the difference increases. Look at the scaling between 1600MHz and 2133MHz for example.

Surprised that at 1600, Skylake performs so poorly. Maybe, an error? Skylake is all about efficiency, imo. It should perform the same or better at every RAM speed level, imo. Strange indeed.

But if true, my gut feeling was right, it's a bad idea to use Skylake on DDR3 equipped mobo's.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Surprised that at 1600, Skylake performs so poorly. Maybe, an error? Skylake is all about efficiency, imo. It should perform the same or better at every RAM speed level, imo. Strange indeed.

Its DDR4 1600, not DDR3 1600.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Its DDR4 1600, not DDR3 1600.

Yeah, but looks like they used the same timings for both types. Just weird.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yeah, but looks like they used the same timings for both types. Just weird.

Lucky we got 1600Mhz DDR3 on Skylake from Anandtech with CB15.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1028
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1029

I have a feeling however to reach 1600Mhz DDR4 they ended up downclocking the entire uncore. Because CB doesn't care about memory speed.

 

[Fjodor2001]

I did some searching and I'm starting to wonder if the memory speed really is so important on Skylake in general. Most DDR4 memory scaling tests I found do not indicate that, except for IGP gaming. See for example:

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/ram/85259-corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-ddr4-3200/

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Skylake_Memory_Scaling

I find it a bit strange that the test results differ so much compared to the ones Sweeper posted earlier. Has any of the review sites gotten it wrong, or is it just that DDR4 memory speed only has an impact in certain specific use cases (mostly IGP gaming)?

 

[frozentundra123456]

So is Haswell. So is everything else as long as you can get any scaling from faster memory.

Is Haswell faster than Skylake? Certainly not.



Really? Isnt the average gain in games over 5%?



The entire industry cares what its validated against. Just stop picking the cheapest parts if you want OC. Its a classic rerun of wanting everything but not paying for it. Better they lowered the Z170 price and removed all the other options right? Because paying for the options you want is obviously bad. While all mobos would cost a lot more due to needing better components etc.

Could you show me the part with MSI?

So Intel forces you to pay more for an "overclocking" motherboard to get decent ram speeds, but heaven forbid they should actually allow you to overclock the cpu. Nice.

 

[ShintaiDK]

GPU limited benchmarks and benchmarks not needing memory bandwidth wont have any effect.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So Intel forces you to pay more for an "overclocking" motherboard to get decent ram speeds, but heaven forbid they should actually allow you to overclock the cpu. Nice.

Oh right, they "force" you. Because you rather want everyone to pay for your overclocking desires. All about you, you and you.

What's next, 1 CPU SKU? 1 GPU SKU? 1 SSD size, 1 Memory size?

You also forget an overclocking motherboard would always cost more. Because just like Intel, Mobo makers dont work pro bono on a charity concept.

 

[Sweepr]

Reposting from last page.

First Skylake-U Iris™ Graphics 540 results out.

GFXBench Windows OpenGL - 1080p Manhattan 3.1 Offscreen (Top Scores)
- Iris™ Graphics 540 (15W Skylake-U GT3e): 63.5 FPS
- HD Graphics 520 (15W Skylake-U GT2): 39.6 FPS
- Iris™ Pro Graphics 5200 (47W Haswell-H GT3e): 61.2 FPS
- HD Graphics 5000 (15W Haswell-U GT3): 36.7 FPS
- Geforce GT940M: 52.3 FPS

Note that these are the first Iris submissions, so results may improve. Still, 60% faster would be a very nice boost at the same TDP (vs HD Graphics 520). Damn, I really want a Core i7 Surface Pro 4 now.

HD Graphics 5000 results added for fun. 73% improvement from Haswell-U GT3 to Skylake-U GT3e. Probably closer to twice as fast with future submissions.

 

[mikk]

First Skylake-U Iris™ Graphics 540 results out.

GFXBench Windows OpenGL - 1080p Manhattan 3.1 Offscreen (Top Scores)
- Iris™ Graphics 540 (15W Skylake-U GT3e): 63.5 FPS
- HD Graphics 520 (15W Skylake-U GT2): 39.6 FPS
- Iris™ Pro Graphics 5200 (47W Haswell-H GT3e): 61.2 FPS
- Gefore GT940M: 52.3 FPS

Note that these are the first Iris submissions, so results may improve. Still, 60% faster would be a very nice boost at the same TDP. Damn, I really want a Core i7 Surface Pro 4 now.

Manhattan 3.0 is pretty good as well for this 15W GT3. It's 5% faster than my i7-6700K HD530 @1150 Mhz running with DDR4-3000 CL15.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Reposting from last page.

What's up with all this reposting? We've already seen the stuff once. I don't want to read the thread on repeat... :\

 

[ShintaiDK]

What's up with all this reposting? We've already seen the stuff once. I don't want to read the thread on repeat... :\

Why are we talking about DDR4 speed then for K chips?

 

[Fjodor2001]

GPU limited benchmarks and benchmarks not needing memory bandwidth wont have any effect.

Yeah, seems that way. Same as for previous Intel CPU generations then. Mostly gaming on IGP that is improved by faster memory speeds.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Oh right, they "force" you. Because you rather want everyone to pay for your overclocking desires. All about you, you and you.

What's next, 1 CPU SKU? 1 GPU SKU? 1 SSD size, 1 Memory size?

Again, you either dont get what I am saying, or you are being deliberately obtuse. All I am saying is that if I were to buy a skylake i3 is that I would like to buy the system with ram that doesnt gimp the performance without having to pay extra for an "overclocking" motherboard. But I am with Larry on this one. I have supported Intel a lot in these forums, and if you look back I even defended skylake against some of the early attacks from the usual intel haters. But I have to say, the way Intel has handled this memory situation has convinced me that unless I were building a high end system I would just go with Haswell. (or, *gasp* wait for something decent from AMD)

And your continual attacking of people who want good value in their purchases as being cheap and wanting something for nothing is wearing very thin. Maybe we should have the US government and the EU set a bottom ceiling of 500.00 for intel cpus. That would show "cheap" people like me a thing or two, right?

 

[Fjodor2001]

Why are we talking about DDR4 speed then for K chips?

Because Sweepr brought it up again? But that was ok I think, since memory speeds hadn't been talked about for awhile, and it also contained new info.

But reposting complete posts from just a page back... that's taking it to a whole new level... :|

 

[Phynaz]

Why are we talking about DDR4 speed then for K chips?

More opportunities for Intel bashing :biggrin:

 

[Sweepr]

Manhattan 3.0 is pretty good as well for this 15W GT3. It's 5% faster than my i7-6700K HD530 @1150 Mhz running with DDR4-3000 CL15.

Really impressive. Strictly talking about gaming, if sustained performance looks the same then Skylake-U GT3e (15W) shouldn't be far from Geforce GT940M level of performance. Instead of Skylake-U GT2 (15W) + Low-end dGPU I can see some OEMs going this route.

Less power, cheaper cooling/battery, thinner/lighter and probably less expensive as well? As a whole this will probably cost more than bread and butter GT2 models but less than CPU + dGPU solutions.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Could you show me the part with MSI?

Just go to Newegg, drill down to motherboards, Intel, 1151, sort by price low to high, and then look at all the listings, and look at the memory support. All chipsets below Z170, shows "DDR4-2133" only. Except for two MSI boards, a B150 and a H170, which show various DDR4 speeds up to 3000.

Edit: Among the boards that support DDR4, that is. DDR3 boards mostly supported only DDR3-1333/1600, although one supported 1866.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Just go to Newegg, drill down to motherboards, Intel, 1151, sort by price low to high, and then look at all the listings, and look at the memory support. All chipsets below Z170, shows "DDR4-2133" only. Except for two MSI boards, a B150 and a H170, which show various DDR4 speeds up to 3000.

Like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3130886&cm_re=MSI_B150-_-13-130-886-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3130883&cm_re=MSI_H170-_-13-130-883-_-Product

Lets see what MSI says:
http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/B150-GAMING-M3.html#hero-specification
http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/H170-GAMING-M3.html#hero-specification

In other words, Newegg seems to have a wrong listing. Always double check manufactor site.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3130886&cm_re=MSI_B150-_-13-130-886-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3130883&cm_re=MSI_H170-_-13-130-883-_-Product

Lets see what MSI says:
http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/B150-GAMING-M3.html#hero-specification
http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/H170-GAMING-M3.html#hero-specification

In other words, Newegg seems to have a wrong listing. Always double check manufactor site.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130886
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130885

 

[Magic Carpet]

DDR3 boards mostly supported only DDR3-1333/1600, although one supported 1866.

1.6Ghz was a chipset limitation as far as I know. Show me the one with 1.86Ghz support please.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130886
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130885

You repeat one of the products I showed you. And for the second, its the same as those I posted. Newegg link is wrong. But you could have found out that yourself by visiting the MSI site:

http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/H170A-PC-MATE.html#hero-specification

So, no memory overclocking outside Z170.

 

[PPB]

Dont get fooled by website specs, go for actual reviewa showing wether the uefi allows you to go higher that the chipset "limit" (rofl at people thinking its the chipset capabilities doing it and no t the intel artificial crippling).

On haswell, mu b85m d3h wont allow higher that x16 multi on dram. But the b85 vanguard and this recent h97m e i built would allow higher than that. This chipset limitation BS should be ended fast.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Dont get fooled by website specs, go for actual reviewa showing wether the uefi allows you to go higher that the chipset "limit" (rofl at people thinking its the chipset capabilities doing it and no t the intel artificial crippling).



On haswell, mu b85m d3h wont allow higher that x16 multi on dram. But the b85 vanguard and this recent h97m e i built would allow higher than that. This chipset limitation BS should be ended fast.

Show me some proof that a B85 mobo can run memory at >1600 Mhz. Even google doesn't know you could do that. Please enlighten us all

All the B85 boxes I've assembled could overclock CPUs, but not memory.

With regards to B85 Vanguard, here's a snippet:

We would like to point out that our memory kit refused to boot at frequencies over 1600MHz with this board. We can’t even boot at 1600MHz without enabling XMP. Pretty underwhelming but since the Vanguard B85’s support documentation never stated compatibility with the specific DIMMs in our test bench, we’ll let it pass.

Source.

The board does not have an option to overclock the processor memory controller.

Source.

Chipset limitation or not, the fact remains that you can't do that on a non-Zee board.