Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[dark zero]

Your post highlights there's very few reasons to buy an AMD-based laptop right now. And nice observation, Intel closed the huge gap without adding eDRAM to their whole lineup.

But AMD is on 28nm, like NVIDIA, Intel is on 14... So... They are not closing the gap after all and with Polaris and Pascal comming the gap will be insane again.

 

[DrMrLordX]

So you'd like to compare 35-42W Carrizo to 15W Intel ULT so that AMD looks better?

Sure, if the two are of comparable price. Include a battery life test to let people decide what they want. What Carrizo was SUPPOSED to be able to do, was run at up to 42W cTDP for the duration of any intensive workload, and then throttle back down to 15W for lighter stuff, so you'd have power when you needed it. What it does is stay constrained within the 22W limit thanks to underbuilt cooling/VRMs and deliberately nerfed cTDP.

It still would eat battery faster than the Intel rig, so people might not like it so much if what they needed was longer life out of the battery.

 

[Rngwn]

Someone has got the NUC i5 reviewed.

Synthetic Benchmarks: http://nucblog.net/2016/01/skylake-i5-nuc-review-nuc6i5syh-nuc6i5syk-benchmarks/

Gaming: http://nucblog.net/2016/01/skylake-i5-nuc-review-nuc6i5syh-part-33-gaming-conclusions/

Too bad the nuc could only support 2133Mhz DDR4. Using 2400Mhz would only run at 2133Mhz or so the reviewer said.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Did you even read the article? Intel isn't cracking down on BCLK OC they are just asking the mother board manufacturers to not enable that feature on non Z170 boards as BCLK OC on those boards disable certain chip features the big important one is C-State. This is going to lead to idiots using non Z170 boards with over clocked systems idling at 300W+ as the CPU can't idle with C-State disabled. All because they didn't spend the extra $20 to get a Z170 board. I don't think it's a unreasonable request from Intel despite your tin foil hat theories.

Uh, non-K BCLK OC on a Z170 board also disables C-states and SpeedStep.

So that blows your theory out of the water.

 

[Sweepr]

Someone has got the NUC i5 reviewed.

Synthetic Benchmarks: http://nucblog.net/2016/01/skylake-i5-nuc-review-nuc6i5syh-nuc6i5syk-benchmarks/

Gaming: http://nucblog.net/2016/01/skylake-i5-nuc-review-nuc6i5syh-part-33-gaming-conclusions/

Too bad the nuc could only support 2133Mhz DDR4. Using 2400Mhz would only run at 2133Mhz or so the reviewer said.

Nice find.
Looks like 15W Skylake-U GT3e delivers 50% higher frame-rates than Skylake-U GT2.

The Skylake i5 NUC is a winner in many ways. Compared to the previous generation it has gained significantly in the performance department. It beats the Broadwell i7 NUC in all but the tests that require pure CPU power. Also compared to the Skylake i3 model it’s a significant improvement in performance. I for sure did not expect to see a 50% increase in most of the benchmarks and games when comparing the i3 and the i5 models. Growing the gap between the i3 and the i5 probably helps to differentiate these products in the market.

Intel is positioning this NUC as a gaming solution and we found out that it’s not totally unreasonable. Gaming performance was surprisingly good keeping the context in mind.

- Heroes of the Storm 1080p Ultra
HD 520: 23.6 FPS
Iris 540: 35.5 FPS

- Dirt 3 1080 High
HD 520: 26.85 FPS
Iris 540: 39.65 FPS

http://nucblog.net/2016/01/skylake-i5-nuc-review-nuc6i5syh-part-33-gaming-conclusions

 

[Burpo]

In stock @ NewEgg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...logl4wee3XRWQX4vKzaWkaAoSq8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[ShintaiDK]

Now we just need the i7 NUC, that one should be really interesting

NUCs also got a new BIOS update with the AVX2/FMA3 fix. My CB scores went up from 2.69 to 2.74.

 

[Sweepr]

Here's Intel's latest processor price list, other than what the name suggests there's new Skylake (and other) CPUs. They just launched the Skylake Celeron lineup and the first Iris Pro 580 based (GT4e, 72 EUs, 128MB eDRAM) models:

Intel® Processor Pricing
Effective Jan 24, 2016
Recommended Customer Price Tray Units

Braswell got a clock boost:

Pentium N3710 (2M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, up to 2.56 GHz ULV, 14nm) - $161
Celeron J3160 (2M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, up to 2.24 GHz, 14nm) - $107
Celeron J3060 (2M cache, 2 Cores, 2 Threads, up to 2.48 GHz, 14nm) - $107

Skylake Celerons!

Celeron G3920 (2M cache, 2 Cores, 2 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $52
Celeron G3900 (2M cache, 2 Cores, 2 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $42
Celeron G3900T (2M cache, 2 Cores, 2 Threads, 2.60 GHz, 14nm) - $42

The first Skylake 4C/8T + GT4e dies belong to mobile:

Xeon E3-1575M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.00 GHz, 14nm) - $1,207
Xeon E3-1545M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $679
Xeon E3-1515M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $489

Compared to regular mobile Xeons based on HD P530 (GT2, 24 EUs):
Xeon E3-1535M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Xeon E3-1505M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $434

So the 'premium' OEMs pay for the much faster Iris Pro 580 is $55-56. Now the Iris Pro 580 Core i5/i7 lineup.

Core i7-6970HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Core i7-6870HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.70 GHz, 14nm) - $434
Core i7-6770HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.60 GHz, 14nm) - $378
Core i5-6350HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 2.30 GHz, 14nm) - $306

Core i5-6350HQ is the successor to the only dual-core Iris Pro chip out there, Broadwell GT3e based Core i5-5350HQ. For an extra $56 compared to Core i5-6300HQ you get a 3x as big iGPU (24 EUs vs 72 EUs) and eDRAM to improve CPU/iGPU/dGPU performance, well worth it IMHO. Can't wait to see the first design wins.

http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...an_24_16_Recommended_Customer_Price_Lists.pdf

 

[Arachnotronic]

Here's Intel's latest processor price list, other than what the name suggests there's new Skylake (and other) CPUs. They just launched the Skylake Celeron lineup and the first Iris Pro 580 based (GT4e, 72 EUs, 128MB eDRAM) models:

Intel® Processor Pricing
Effective Jan 24, 2016
Recommended Customer Price Tray Units

Braswell got a clock boost:



Skylake Celerons!



The first Skylake 4C/8T + GT4e dies belong to mobile:


Compared to regular mobile Xeons based on HD P530 (GT2, 24 EUs):
Xeon E3-1535M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Xeon E3-1505M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $434

So the 'premium' OEMs pay for the much faster Iris Pro 580 is $55-56. Now the Iris Pro 580 Core i5/i7 lineup.



Core i5-6350HQ is the successor to the only dual-core Iris Pro chip out there, Broadwell GT3e based Core i5-5350HQ. For an extra $56 compared to Core i5-6300HQ you get a 3x as big iGPU (24 EUs vs 72 EUs) and eDRAM to improve CPU/iGPU/dGPU performance, well worth it IMHO. Can't wait to see the first design wins.

http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...an_24_16_Recommended_Customer_Price_Lists.pdf

15" rMBP replacement with Iris Pro incoming...?

 

[nvgpu]

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

Version 1.75
Intel Skylake Pentium, Celeron and Core m3/m5/m7 support.

 

[Rngwn]

The review of core m7 6y75 2-in-1.

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-Spectre-x2-12-a003ng-K3D42EA-Notebook.158165.0.html

The m7 in the tablet is slower than the m3 in the SP4. Looks like no manufacturer except Microsoft knows what needs to be done with the Core Ms.

 

[dark zero]

Ok, lets start...
Braswell boost is insignificant since it only added boost instead of base clock. Is a lost generation from Intel. So Broxton might fix this once at all. I want Core 2 performance at lower energy cost and now is beyond imposible to bring it.
----

That Xeon GT4... Now this is interesting. The GPU as GT3 now is on nViDIA GT 740 levels BTW...so.. If the improvement is another 50%... Oh boy... AMD and NVIDIA will be on real problems if their lowest tier are not revamped...
---
Wondering at the same time if the AMD GPU presented before in the CES 2016, who has the GTX 950 performance at lower energy cost, is their lowest card and are going to replace their R5 230... If that so, they can be safe (nVIDIA will do the same)... And Intel dGPU would en again as bottom of the barrell, despite their improvements.

On the other side, if they are replacing the R7 250 or 260.. And nVIDIA are doing the same (only from GTX 950 and beyond), they will be on serious problems since Intel would managed to catch up to their low tier and would be a matter of time to catch their mid tier and makes them bleed a lot since Intel would be on a fully dominant position.

 

[Sweepr]

15" rMBP replacement with Iris Pro incoming...?

Certainly, fits the long awaited 'March' event.
But I really hope to see more Iris Pro design wins this time. I'd take a Core i7-6770HQ with GT4e over Core i7-6820HQ with GT2 and slightly higher clocked CPU cores any day of the week (same price according to Intel).

Core i5-6350HQ is the perfect part for notebooks like this, entry-level quad-cores with low-end dGPUs.

BTW there's a Core i3 chip with GT3e (Iris 550) now: Core i3-6167U.

The review of core m7 6y75 2-in-1.

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-Spectre-x2-12-a003ng-K3D42EA-Notebook.158165.0.html

The m7 in the tablet is slower than the m3 in the SP4. Looks like no manufacturer except Microsoft knows what needs to be done with the Core Ms.

Too bad. I wish they tested ASUS's UX305CA:

Windows 10
13.3-inch IPS QHD+ (3200 x 1800) display
Intel Core m7-6Y75 processor
8GB DDR3 + 512GB M.2 SSD
Aluminum unibody half inch thin and just over 2.5lbs
$999

Their first Core M implementation (Broadwell-Y) was fairly impressive.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, so many skus with edram, but so hard to find. Yes, you can order them as upgrades perhaps, but most people just walk in to a big box store and buy what is on the shelf. What Intel really needs to do is make iris pro standard (in mobile) in anything over a certain price, say, 7 or 8 hundred dollars. (Talking ultrabooks and any quad big core mobile processor).

 

[ShintaiDK]

It is slowly coming as the standard. Just a little more patience

 

[Erva]

Is it likely that Iris Pro 580 hits desktop processors?

 

[Rngwn]

Too bad. I wish they tested ASUS's UX305CA:

NBC already did it here on m3 6y30 model.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-UX305CA-EHM1-Subnotebook-Review.154422.0.html

It throttled just as bad as HP's, I doubt putting in the m7 would improve anything.

 

[Fjodor2001]

NBC already did it here on m3 6y30 model.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-UX305CA-EHM1-Subnotebook-Review.154422.0.html

It throttled just as bad as HP's, I doubt putting in the m7 would improve anything.

From that article:

In a passively-cooled notebook, actual performance depends on the implementation - and it turns out that the UX305CA can't keep what the m3-6Y30 promises: even very short load cycles resulted in a - sometimes very noticeable - reduction of the CPU performance. During the X264 video-encoding benchmark test, for example, the subnotebook showed a clear drop in the frame rate during the four iterations (pass 1, #1: 76.5 fps; pass 1, #4: 67.2 fps). The same CPU in the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 is capable of far better performance: while we recorded 1.79 points (multi) and 0.81 points (single) for the Cinebench R11.5 benchmark test, the Surface Pro 4 scored roughly 25 % higher (2.27 / 0.98 points).

Interesting is a comparison of the m3-6Y30 to the Broadwell Core M-5Y10 CPU (0.8 - 2 GHz) in the older Zenbook UX305FA-FB003H: while the new SoC outperforms the older brother in the multi-core tests, the single-core tests actually show a slight performance edge for the Broadwell-chip. The results are not that consistent, however: while the Cinebench R15 test shows a performance plus of about 30 % for the multi-core portion, the difference for the R11.5 test is only about 3 %.

Pitted against regular ULV processors, neither M-series CPU stands a chance: the Core i5-6200U (TDP 15 watts) in the Dell XPS 13 is 60 - 80 % faster depending on the benchmark, but of course this CPU has a much higher headroom and requires active cooling.

Sad to head about the throttling. That ASUS notebook was on my shortlist. I was hoping for a variant with 6Y54/6Y57.

But then again they are running a "X264 video-encoding benchmark test" when complaining about the throttling. If it's only used for bursty loads or not too heavy ones (web surfing, reading mails, showing a video) I wonder if it really becomes a problem?

Also worth noting that the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 performed better in this regard, while using the same CPU (6Y30). So that points to it also being dependent on the design of the device, not only the CPU.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Is it likely that Iris Pro 580 hits desktop processors?

It will as a Broadwell-C replacement later.

 

[Sweepr]

We're in AnandTech's front page. +5.000 views in 1 day.

Skylake Iris Pro hits Intel’s Pricing Lists: Xeon E3-1575M v5 with GT4e

One of our forum members, Sweepr, posted Intel’s latest pricing list for OEMs dated the 24th of January and it contained a number of interesting parts worth documenting. The Braswell parts and Skylake Celerons were disclosed over the past few months are now available to OEMs, but it’s the parts with Iris Pro that have our attention.

Iris Pro is Intel’s name for their high end graphics solution. Using their latest graphics microarchitecture, Gen9, Iris Pro packs in the most execution units (72) as well as a big scoop of eDRAM. At the minute we assume it’s the 128 MB edition as Intel’s roadmaps have stated a 4+4e part only on mobile, rather than a 4+3e part with 64 MB (only the 2+3e parts are listed as 64MB), although we are looking for confirmation.

The new parts are listed as:

Xeon E3-1575M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.00 GHz, 14nm) - $1,207
Xeon E3-1545M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $679
Xeon E3-1515M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $489

These will compare to the non-Iris Pro counterparts, running P530 graphics (4+2, 24 EUs):

Xeon E3-1535M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.90 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Xeon E3-1505M v5 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $434

As Sweepr points out, the difference between the 2.8-2.9 GHz parts is only $55-56. That is for both the increase in graphics EUs (24 to 72) as well as that extra on-package eDRAM.

We have more reasons to be excited over the eDRAM in Skylake than what we saw before in Haswell with the i7-4950HQ on mobile and Broadwell on desktop with the i7-5775C, i5-5765C and the relevant Xeons. With the older platforms, the eDRAM was not a proper bidirectional cache per se. It was used as a victim cache, such that data that was spurned from the L3 cache on the CPU ended up in eDRAM, but the CPU could not place data from the DRAM into the eDRAM without using it first (prefetch prediction). This also meant that the eDRAM was invisible to any other devices on the system, and without specific hooks couldn’t be used by most software or peripherals. With Skylake, this changes, the eDRAM lies beyond the L3 and the System Agent as a pathway to DRAM, meaning that any data that wants DRAM space will go through the eDRAM in search for it. Rather than acting as a pseudo-L4 cache, the eDRAM becomes a DRAM buffer and automatically transparent to any software (CPU or IGP) that requires DRAM access. As a result, other hardware that communicates through the system agent (such as PCIe devices or data from the chipset) and requires information in DRAM does not need to navigate through the L3 cache on the processor. [...]

More here.


Given the impressive results we saw from Broadwell-K, I'm looking forward to seeing the benefits of the improved eDRAM (consumer workloads).

I wonder if Apple will still accomodate dGPUs in their next-gen MBP 15''. I think their long term plan might be iGPU-only + external TB3 GPU/VGA solution.

 

[JDG1980]

So, I wanted to see if I could come up with an estimate of how powerful the full Skylake Iris Pro is going to be. The existing Broadwell Iris Pro has 48 execution units. Skylake Iris Pro is going to have 72 EUs, a 50 percent increase.

Though it has been released for several months, it's not easy to find benchmarks where Broadwell Iris Pro is compared against decent entry-level GPUs. Anandtech compared it against the R7 250, which is like shooting fish in a barrel. No one buys that piece of crap. What we want to know is how it stacks up to low-end GPUs that people actually care about, like the GTX 750 Ti.

Fortunately, Tom's Hardware just ran a review of Star Wars: Battlefront where they tested it on just about every GPU, integrated or discrete, that's on the market today. This is just one game, but it is a AAA title that seems to be relatively vendor-agnostic, performing well on both AMD and Nvidia cards. At 1080p with Ultra settings and temporal AA, the Broadwell Iris Pro i7-5775C averaged 23 FPS. In comparison, the Gigabyte GTX 750 Ti OC averaged 35 FPS - a 52 percent improvement. On the red team, the Asus R9 270X DirectCU II averaged 46 FPS, exactly double Broadwell Iris Pro's showing.

Let's simplify a bit and assume that scaling for Iris Pro works exactly with the number of shaders. We can expect some architectural improvements in Skylake's EUs, but to offset that we may also be seeing eDRAM bottlenecks and/or imperfect scaling. So we'll assume these two cancel each other out, and Skylake Iris Pro has 50% better performance than Broadwell Iris Pro. This would give Skylake Iris Pro a 34.5 FPS score on Star Wars: Battlefield, almost exactly on par with GTX 750 Ti.

That would be pretty decent. The GTX 750 Ti is enough for most casual gamers, capable of doing 1080p on most games if you are OK with low/medium settings. But it won't be nearly good enough for people who want Ultra settings and/or higher resolutions, or who play the most demanding titles.

And remember, this is comparing Intel's newest (not yet released) chip against old 28nm GPUs from AMD and Nvidia. By the time Skylake Iris Pro hits, there's a good chance that one or both companies will have FinFET GPUs on the market, which should more than double the power of the previous low end (Cape Verde and GM107) at the same TDP.

If Intel's 10nm process doubles transistor density again, then conceivably Cannonlake Iris Pro could have 144 EUs, which would be about as powerful as a GTX 970. But at that point, it becomes seriously questionable whether 128MB of eDRAM is going to be enough to feed it. After all, the actual GTX 970 needs 3.5GB of dedicated RAM at 224 GB/sec. A cache can be more efficient, but that seems to be pushing it. By that time, Intel might have to resort to HBM, HMC, or some similar form of ultrafast RAM to power their best iGPUs. Anyway, Cannonlake won't be here until at least 2H 2017, and probably realistically 1H 2018 for the first desktop SKUs and 2H 2018 for Iris Pro. By that time the foundry FinFET processes will be fully mature and Intel's iGPUs will have to compete against relatively cheap ~350mm^2 chips (double the strength of a GTX 970 or more) and ~500-600mm^2 salvage chips at $650 or so (twice as powerful as a GTX 980 Ti).

TL;DR: Intel might finally come up with something playable at 1080p in the iGPU market, but AMD and Nvidia don't have anything to worry about with their discrete card businesses.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I wonder if Apple will still accomodate dGPUs in their next-gen MBP 15''. I think their long term plan might be iGPU-only + external TB3 GPU/VGA solution.

To achieve "Thin-nirvana" the dGPU is gonna have to go.

 

[crashtech]

We're in AnandTech's front page. +5.000 views in 1 day. ...

Congrats on the cite, Sweepr!

 

[JDG1980]

To achieve "Thin-nirvana" the dGPU is gonna have to go.

People who want thinness above all else can buy a MacBook Air or the no-adjective MacBook. The MacBook Pro is for people who want a mobile workstation.

I expect to see a dGPU (probably AMD's Polaris 10) offered as an option for the 15" MBP in this generation. Maybe Cannonlake will reach the point where they decide they don't need it any more.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Congrats on the cite, Sweepr!

+1 to Sweepr as well here :thumbsup: