Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[nerp]

I3 is garbage. It's better to go i5 with a 480/1060, then upgrade to 6700K/7700K in 3-4 years when they go used. Buying an i3 is $$ wasted right away. An i5 will allow another GPU upgrade to let him wait for the i7 to drop in price. Also, Asrock Z170 boards still support overclocking via BCLK. I5 6400 will hit 4.4-4.5Ghz on the Asrock Extreme 4.

I wouldn't say garbage.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I3 is garbage. It's better to go i5 with a 480/1060, then upgrade to 6700K/7700K in 3-4 years when they go used. Buying an i3 is $$ wasted right away. An i5 will allow another GPU upgrade to let him wait for the i7 to drop in price. Also, Asrock Z170 boards still support overclocking via BCLK. I5 6400 will hit 4.4-4.5Ghz on the Asrock Extreme 4.

Meh. Right now my brother is using a Celeron G1820 + Radeon RX 480 and he's enjoying all the games he wants to play (Doom, Serious Sam HD, and so on). It's amazing how little CPU performance one can get away with these days...

Also, a buddy of mine who is running an Athlon II X4 recently came to me for upgrade advice. Told him to get an i3-6100 + H110 board + 16GB DDR4, and he's much happier now. i3 isn't garbage.

 

[Sweepr]

Big leak from BenchLife today:

Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X details, launch in the third quarter of 2017

Skylake-X

- Basin Falls Platform
- Socket R4 (LGA 2066)
- Socket R4 will be used for 3 years, will receive Cannonlake-X
- 6C, 8C and 10C versions
- 13.75 MB cache
- 140W TDP
- Up to 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes
- Kaby Lake PCH-X
- Quad-channel
- 1 DIMM per channel DDR4-2667; 2 DIMM per channel DDR4-2400
- Turbo Boost 3.0
- No integrated graphics

Kaby Lake-X

- Basin Falls Platform
- Socket R4 (LGA 2066)
- Quad-core
- 8 MB cache
- 112W TDP
- Kaby Lake PCH-X
- Dual-channel DDR4
- Turbo Boost 2.0
- No integrated graphics

* In 2020, Socket R5 (LGA 2076)
* Basin Falls Platform Launch Window Q3/Q4 2017

https://benchlife.info/skylake-x-and-kaby-lake-x-confirm-with-lga-2066-and-2017-q3-07172016

 

[Arachnotronic]

Big leak from BenchLife today:

Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X details, launch in the third quarter of 2017

Skylake-X

- Basin Falls Platform
- Socket R4 (LGA 2066)
- Socket R4 will be used for 3 years, will receive Cannonlake-X
- 6C, 8C and 10C versions
- 13.75 MB cache
- 140W TDP
- Up to 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes
- Kaby Lake PCH-X
- Quad-channel
- 1 DIMM per channel DDR4-2667; 2 DIMM per channel DDR4-2400
- Turbo Boost 3.0
- No integrated graphics

Kaby Lake-X

- Basin Falls Platform
- Socket R4 (LGA 2066)
- Quad-core
- 8 MB cache
- 112W TDP
- Kaby Lake PCH-X
- Dual-channel
- 1 DIMM per channel DDR4-2667; 2 DIMM per channel DDR4-2400
- Turbo Boost 2.0
- No integrated graphics

* In 2020, Socket R5 (LGA 2076)
* Basin Falls Platform Launch Window Q3/Q4 2017

https://benchlife.info/skylake-x-and-kaby-lake-x-confirm-with-lga-2066-and-2017-q3-07172016

Kaboom! Bye bye, mainstream platform.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Intel screws the consumer again. Are they intentionally trying to make Zen more attractive by killing high performance on the mainstream platform?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel screws the consumer again. Are they intentionally trying to make Zen more attractive by killing high performance on the mainstream platform?

How is this "screwing the consumer"?

Now you can buy one platform and choose either a very fast, highly clocked quad core OR you can get more CPU cores.

With KBL-X there is literally no point for enthusiasts to buy the "mainstream platform."

 

[coercitiv]

How is this "screwing the consumer"?

Now you can buy one platform and choose either a very fast, highly clocked quad core OR you can get more CPU cores.

They just announced the quad core Funder's Edition (with premium solder!!! wink wink)

So how's this gonna work, overclock will go bye bye on mainstream?

 

[mikk]

Kaboom! Bye bye, mainstream platform.

What do you mean? Do you think this a a proof that we won't see unlocked Kabylake SKUs on the mainstream platform? In this table Kabylake-S is labeled with TDP of 95W, as we know these are the unlocked models.

For me Kabylake-X no option because I want Quicksync which requires the iGPU. I wonder if KBL-X comes with disabled iGPU or a dedicated Die without iGPU.

 

[Drazick]

Why would they reduce the cache size?

It doesn't make sense, they have more Transistors Budget and they remove the cache size?
The cache in the Extreme Editions is one of their best features.

I would like to see a 6 core with a lot of cache and Iris Pro with 128 / 256 eDRAM.
That would be a killer machine.

 

[jpiniero]

Intel screws the consumer again. Are they intentionally trying to make Zen more attractive by killing high performance on the mainstream platform?

It'll still be high performance. Hell, the 7700 is 3.6/4.2, that's not exactly low performance.

What do you mean? Do you think this a a proof that we won't see unlocked Kabylake SKUs on the mainstream platform?

Cannonlake mainstream is probably BGA only, even on desktop. Do you think unlocked makes sense on BGA?

Why would they reduce the cache size?

Save power for the higher clocks.

 

[jpiniero]

Oh, and I don't think this would stop Intel from releasing a 6 core Cannonlake mainstream desktop chip. I guess it would depend on what the clocks are on both, and what Cannonlake could achieve at 65W and 6 core is anyone's guess at this point. KBL-X is probably like 4.8 at stock.

 

[mikk]

Cannonlake mainstream is probably BGA only, even on desktop. Do you think unlocked makes sense on BGA.

I don't think so because Cannonlake will be compatible to Z200 board series which is a socket. Since years we hear the FUD about BGA only models for desktop, it never happened and won't happen in the foreseeable future.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think so because Cannonlake will be compatible to Z200 board series which is a socket. Since years we hear the FUD about BGA only models for desktop, it never happened and won't happen in the foreseeable future.

That was before the second delay and Kabylake. It sure looks like Socket R4 is the only desktop chipset.

 

[mikk]

It sure looks like Socket R4 is the only desktop chipset.

It isn't.

 

[RussianSensation]

Kaboom! Bye bye, mainstream platform.

If true, sounds like a $$$ grab from Intel. If they neuter that K series overclocking on the mainstream platform, they are forcing people to pay extra for the workstation chipset. Either way, launch shifting to Q3 2017 means another delay as we expected SKL-E in 1H of 2017. It will be close to 2 years since 6700K launched to get that level of gaming/IPC performance in 6-10 core offerings. That's a gigantic lag compared to Nehalem i7 920 -> Lynnfield 860 strategy where the enthusiast platform had an actual lead.

I just hope Intel keeps the K series and is on track for the Icelake architecture in 2018. With close to a 2-year-gap now for the workstation platform, it's becoming even more questionable imho; unless of course Intel starts neutering the mainstream platform even more by removing overclocking and limiting CPU clocks.

Looks like my decision to buy a 6700K is paying off as I had feared Intel's recent realignment to move away from PC enthusiasts into IoT and Octane/memory means they just don't care about the desktop anymore. It's pretty disappointing to launch a 2-year-old SKL architecture as High End when Icelake was on the roadmap for 2018.

What's even crazier is how good of a deal the August/September 2014 5820K was in hindsight. Those users could easily skip SKL-X and wait another 2-3 years for Icelake-X since usually 1 full CPU architectural jump isn't worth upgrading from. Now it make sense why so many people have excess budget for the GPUs since Intel isn't giving them much incentive to upgrade. Chances are the 2600/3770/4770K users that held off on 6700K aren't going to upgrade to more or less the same level of performance in 2017 that 6700K 4.6-4.8Ghz already offered in 2015!!!

2600K/3770K are going down as one of the most legendary CPUs of all time. It's not going to be surprising to see these users holding out all the way to Icelake.

 

[Sweepr]

What we can take from today's leak is that they're adding a 4C/8T part to the HEDT family (Kaby Lake-X). Using an improved 14nm proccess, coupled with extra TDP headroom (112W), this SKU could come close to the mythical 5 GHz. We're talking potential 10-25% performance boost, enough to put it on par with stock 6C/12T 6800K in MT, while per core performance would be significantly ahead of everything else in the market by then (Summit Ridge included).

As mikk noted, Intel is still listing 95W Kaby Lake-S parts and we know the only 95W Skylake-S parts were unlocked, so there's no reason to think they won't introduce Core i5-7600K / i7-7700K (LGA1151) in early 2017.

The inclusion of KBL-X PCH and reduced cache means they're bringing Socket R4 and Skylake-X closer to mainstream. Expect higher base clocks compared to Haswell-E/Broadwell-E as well. This also brings the question, are Kaby Lake-X and Skylake-X different dies? Exciting times ahead.

 

[frozentundra123456]

How is this "screwing the consumer"?

Now you can buy one platform and choose either a very fast, highly clocked quad core OR you can get more CPU cores.

With KBL-X there is literally no point for enthusiasts to buy the "mainstream platform."

By basically removing high performance chips from the mainstream platform. I know you dont agree with me on this, but I would much rather see intel put a hex core on the mainstream rather than forcing one to go to the HEDT platform now to even get the best quad performance. It also removes the upgrade option to buy something like an i3 and upgrade later to the fastest quad. Honestly, I just dont understand how anyone can excuse Intel for not putting more cores on the mainstream, since we have been stuck on quads for what, ten years now? Now if they would leave the mainstream line-up unchanged and add a highly binned, highly clocked quad "special edition" on the HEDT, that would be great. But I assume this means that conventional "k" quad core are going to disappear.

When intel added the 5820k to the haswell line-up, I really thought they were trying to accommodate the enthusiast market. But with BW-E pricing and now this, they seem to be going back to the "you will buy what *we* want you to buy, not what you want".

 

[CakeMonster]

TLDR version is the lag between the mainstream and HEDT will continue to be just as bad.

Intel clearly doesn't care much about about catering to the highend user's needs. It is a difficult market to begin with in this day and age, but I mean, why not at least _try_ to get the newer process/architecture out a bit faster for HEDT?

I was actually planning to go KL-K because I'm still somewhat addicted to new flashy things, but Intel just announced a ~1yr delay on mainstream platform and ~6mnths on HEDT compared to what they told us to expect with the tick-tock-tock announcement.

Meh.

 

[PaulIntellini]

SKL-X and KBL-X will be based on the server core version.
That means AVX512 support and maybe some other things, like doubled L2 cache.

 

[jpiniero]

Intel clearly doesn't care much about about catering to the highend user's needs. It is a difficult market to begin with in this day and age, but I mean, why not at least _try_ to get the newer process/architecture out a bit faster for HEDT?

That may end up happening, but this is still the transition period. Maybe they will make it worth your while by putting these chips on a clock speed optimized process.

 

[Glo.]

Kaboom! Bye bye, mainstream platform.

Want to know why? http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2449674

Because Mainstream hardware from Cannonlake will have 8 core CPUs as options. 8 core i7.

Thank to Zen for this.

HEDT will have more than 8 cores, and will start from 6 cores.

 

[jpiniero]

Because Mainstream hardware from Cannonlake will have 8 core CPUs as options. 8 core i7.

The die probably supported 8 max at one point, but I'd have to think you won't see anything above 6 except for maybe Mobile Xeons. Well, besides Xeon D.

 

[2blzd]

This is all very interesting..I miss news like this...the cpu space is so boring these days

1) Finally get the 'DT' chip w/o a iGPU yet its still 4 core? weird. Most likely will clock like Devil's Canyon then.

2) You could technically buy a motherboard and put a 'DT' kaby lake cpu in it or a 'HEDT' skylake-e chip in it. I wonder if Intel will allow this.. (I know they're renamed, easier to paint the picture this way)

3) To get an unlocked 'DT' k cpu you now have to invest into the 'HEDT' platform. At that point, why wouldn't you just buy the cheapest 6core skylake-x over the 4core kabylake-x? This again must mean the kaby-x can clock to the moon, otherwise you could just spend $50 more for 12 more pcie lanes and 2 more cores, bizarre.


So interesting...curious how this will play out in the market...It would be awesome if this came out sooner and you could invest into the platform and start with a KabyX now and then SkyX later...But they're coming out around the same time so this is just wishful thinking..

Also wtf is up with the cache on Sky-X? 13.75 for the 6 core? or all skus? 0_0

I knew this was coming but this makes my broadwell-e purchase harder!

I Either way, launch shifting to Q3 2017 means another delay as we expected SKL-E in 1H of 2017.

broadwell-e was delayed so whatever comes after it is in turn delayed as well. You think they'd have broadwell-e out for less than a year before they brought out "Sky-e". Broadwell-C might have been screwed that way but Intel doesn't do that with the HEDT/Xeon line. Pretty simple, no new delays.

 

[jpiniero]

3) To get an unlocked 'DT' k cpu you now have to invest into the 'HEDT' platform. At that point, why wouldn't you just buy the cheapest 6core skylake-x over the 4core kabylake-x? This again must mean the kaby-x can clock to the moon, otherwise you could just spend $50 more for 12 more pcie lanes and 2 more cores, bizarre.

Given the price difference of the 6700K and 6800K, I imagine it'd be $100 or so. I guess the question is where Intel will price KBL-X and if there will be any other unlocked models besides 4C8T.

 

[2blzd]

Given the price difference of the 6700K and 6800K, I imagine it'd be $100 or so. I guess the question is where Intel will price KBL-X and if there will be any other unlocked models besides 4C8T.

Ah yes. I was used to the 6700k and 5820k being $50 or less apart. Either way the point still remains, this is a very interesting, delicate? situation for intel.

KabyX should clock much higher than KabyS...otherwise whats the the point? But then again it can't clock TOO high, otherwise you'd cannibalize the 6core sky-x..Kinda like what the 6700k did to the 5820k in pure speed benchmarks. But there in lies the problem. Kaby is the newer uARCH and has higher clocks?

Also, what are they going to call them. Are they all going to be 7x00 skus? lol