Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
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832
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That's not what techspot tells us. 7700K is on top most of the time.
The improved and larger L2 cache should see Skylake-X become Intel's IPC champion, so I suspect it will also knock the i7700K off it's perch as Intel's best gaming CPU.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
The improved and larger L2 cache should see Skylake-X become Intel's IPC champion, so I suspect it will also knock the i7700K off it's perch as Intel's best gaming CPU.

Plus SKLX will be on thee same 14nm+ node as Kabylake. IT will be interesting to see how the 8 core clocks - it will smoke the i7 6900k.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Plus SKLX will be on thee same 14nm+ node as Kabylake. IT will be interesting to see how the 8 core clocks - it will smoke the i7 6900k.
Well, it was only a 200mhz base increase and 100mhz single core turbo increase, from HW to KL.
I think a typical o'clock was 4.4 for a 6900K, so maybe you would get 4.6 with SL-X plus the ipc increase from HW/BW to SL/KL.

I'd give it a 5-8% ipc increase plus the clock speed advantage, plus the cache improvements. So it should be a decent jump over BW-E.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
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But it remains to be seen if those large L2 cache CPU's can clock as high. I am worried about Intel including those 112W quads in the HEDT platform, they make very little sense from financial ( as in Intel bottom line and customer price diff from hexa core) and technical side ( 6 core is entry level for quite some time).

If Intel rearchitected L2 cache "Apple" style, maybe they can't clock it as high as well and they need "high clock" gaming champion? Server CPUs don't need 4+Ghz clocks, they target maybe 3.6 turbo, so if Intel optimized L2 cache ( trading max clock to keep latencies small).

P.S. It is all speculation, cause i am writing this on 8MB L3 @4.5Ghz uncore CPU, Intel definitely knows their caches, it's just those quads have me worried.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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353
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But it remains to be seen if those large L2 cache CPU's can clock as high.
The same guy who mentioned that Ryzen broke 8 core Cinebench WR (before the launch day) also mentioned that Skylake-X 8 core broke 6950X record.
So, looks like cache won't be an issue with clocks, cooling will.
I think a typical o'clock was 4.4 for a 6900K, so maybe you would get 4.6 with SL-X plus the ipc increase from HW/BW to SL/KL.
4.4 for 6900k is anything but typical.It borders "golden" territory in that regard. Typical for 6900k was like 4.2, like on Broadwell. If that means we are getting 4.6 typical on SKL-X, that would be a serious bump. Memory probably won't get any higher than BDW on anything but few small boards though.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
The same guy who mentioned that Ryzen broke 8 core Cinebench WR (before the launch day) also mentioned that Skylake-X 8 core broke 6950X record.
So, looks like cache won't be an issue with clocks, cooling will.

4.4 for 6900k is anything but typical.It borders "golden" territory in that regard. Typical for 6900k was like 4.2, like on Broadwell. If that means we are getting 4.6 typical on SKL-X, that would be a serious bump. Memory probably won't get any higher than BDW on anything but few small boards though.
I looked at a few reviews of the 6900K. I saw 4.3,4.4, and a 4.5.

Here is 4.5, for example:

http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-core-i7-6900k-review/

Overclocked i7-6900K Performance
Overclocking of the i7-6900K is of course possible, and the dividends from doing so are similar to most of Intel's other unlocked CPUs. In this case, I was able to run this particular i7-6900K at 4.5GHz using 1.350V, which is a slightly higher clock than either the 6850K or 6800K could achieve. The 5960X meanwhile hit the same 4.5GHz, but at a lower 1.275V, which has been par for the course with Broadwell-E—all of my sample chips have required more voltage than Haswell-E when overclocking, though that may change over time.

4.46 here:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-broadwell-e-i7-6950x-i7-6900k-review-13.html

4.3 here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-broadwell-e-6950x-6900k-6850k-6800k,4587-9.html

4.5 here:

https://www.hardwareheaven.com/2016/05/intel-core-i7-6900k-review/
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Ahh. We see some 4.3 zen also. But man its nuclear reactors.
An 6900 at 4.4 if you even get here is what a 240w cpu?
Look at thg power test at 4.3. As i recall its was something like 218w (edit it was 214w)
It puts extreme demands on cooler and mb.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Ahh. We see some 4.3 zen also. But man its nuclear reactors.
An 6900 at 4.4 if you even get here is what a 240w cpu?
Look at thg power test at 4.3. As i recall its was something like 218w (edit it was 214w)
It puts extreme demands on cooler and mb.
People don't seem to care much about that when reporting overclocks and benchmarks, though.

All of the 6/8/10 core chips seem to begin to gobble up power when you get near their max freq.

Even the 4C KL chips apparently start to do this as the 7740K is apparently 112W TDP for ~100Mhz more clock.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,243
2,297
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Even the 4C KL chips apparently start to do this as the 7740K is apparently 112W TDP for ~100Mhz more clock.


You can't know if it clocks 100 Mhz higher and you also cannot compare Intels HEDT TDP with their mainstream TDP.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Core i7 7740K (QMM9 ES): Its basic frequency is at 4.30 GHz (100 MHz more than the 7700K) and its Turbo frequency at 4.50 GHz (identical to the 7700K). Hyper-Threading is enabled and has 8 MB of L3 cache. There is, however, a small subtlety. The Core i7 7700K is specified at 4.4 GHz in Turbo mode with all active cores and 4.5 GHz with a single active core. The Core i7 7740K is designed to operate at 4.5 GHz in Turbo mode, regardless of the number of active cores. This makes it, in practice, a CPU at 4.50 GHz.
https://translate.google.com/transl...-et-i5-7640k-kaby-lake-x-lga2066/&prev=search
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,341
678
126
Core i7 7740K (QMM9 ES): Its basic frequency is at 4.30 GHz (100 MHz more than the 7700K) and its Turbo frequency at 4.50 GHz (identical to the 7700K). Hyper-Threading is enabled and has 8 MB of L3 cache. There is, however, a small subtlety. The Core i7 7700K is specified at 4.4 GHz in Turbo mode with all active cores and 4.5 GHz with a single active core. The Core i7 7740K is designed to operate at 4.5 GHz in Turbo mode, regardless of the number of active cores. This makes it, in practice, a CPU at 4.50 GHz.
https://translate.google.com/transl...-et-i5-7640k-kaby-lake-x-lga2066/&prev=search

Pointless processor in my opinion.
 
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Bouowmx

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2016
1,147
551
146
Wild guess: Kaby Lake-X has improved TIM. Not sure of that point got lost in translation.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Pointless processor in my opinion.
The two are just entry level 2066 chips, I think. To get people on the HEDT road.
It may actually point to high 6C and up 2066 chip prices??? Thus the need for something relatively low cost.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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PCLab took time to compare Core i7-6700K to Ryzen 7 1800X with the new Geforce GTX 1080 Ti. That's not far from the performance you'll get from overclocked Ryzen 7 1700, so a relevant comparison:

The differences in performance between the Intel Core i7-6700K processor clocked at a frequency of 4.7 GHz and AMD Ryzen 7 1800X curling to the frequency of 4.075 GHz depends on the game, but overall, wins Intel.

The biggest advantage of the Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.7 GHz achieves Hitman in DX12 mode: with a resolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels it reaches 60% (72.4 fps vs. 45.2 fps). However, the higher the resolution, the advantage of Intel melts: a 3840 × 2160 pixels is only 27%. The same title run in DX11 regardless of the resolution runs faster on a computer with an Intel processor by about 30 percent.





















Basically if you are not GPU limited, Skylake is faster - sometimes significantly.
 
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inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,864
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Eteknix did the same:
http://www.eteknix.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-cpu-showdown-i7-7700k-vs-ryzen-r7-1800x-vs-i7-5820k/

Basically if you are not GPU limited, Ryzen is faster - sometimes significantly.*


*See what I did there? Reviews will show different pictures, that is why you need more than one. Also as tech report noticed , you would want to know frame times and variance in frame rates, minimums are meaningless if there is only a few dips and the rest are more even. This means a world of difference and will differentiate a smooth (as verified by Ryzen owners) from a stuttery performance.
 
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JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
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That eteknix review looks funky, i find it hard to believe that different platforms would have exactly the same results and those results would also happen to end with 0. Some results are just hilarious.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,864
4,546
136
Wow so much effort to show 10-15% better frame rates. Thank you.

More tests from here and conclusion:
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...-ti-first-real-4k-gpu-drives-better-amd-intel


At 1080p, Intel’s Broadwell-E maintains an average frame rate that’s 8-9% higher than Ryzen 7 1800X’s. At 1440p, that difference shrinks to 4-7%. By 4K, the two CPUs are essentially tied. That’s more important than it might seem.

The entire point of testing the GTX 1080 Ti with these two CPUs was to throw the world’s fastest GPU at Ryzen 7 and see if the CPU could keep the GPU fed. One of our concerns, after seeing Ryzen’s weak 1080p showing in our CPU review, was that the chip might not be able to keep up with a substantially faster GPU than the 1070 we used in that article. Now, we know it can. Even on a game-by-game basis, Ryzen and Broadwell often gain a similar amount of performance when moving from the 1070 to the 1080 Ti. This is particularly true when moving from 1440p to 4K.

Gamers in pursuit of every last frame of performance at every resolution may want to opt for Intel, but those interested in Ryzen’s performance-per-dollar ratio don’t have anything to worry about on the gaming side of the equation. Those of you who used to prefer AMD CPUs and Nvidia GPUs have something to look forward to — as do Nvidia GPU fans in general.

As can be seen, moving on to 67% faster GPU ( 1080ti vs 1070) brings no change in relative performance between 6900K and 1800X. 1800x or even better 1700 is a best SKU from perf./$ POV currently on the market. The situation in 2-3 years will mimic 2500K vs 8350 and how the performance evolved (1700 vs 7700K). The problem for intel is that Ryzen is not Bulldozer and is nearly identical IPC wise uarchitecture. It will be a carnage
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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If imo not different pictures but different testing methods.

"When we started this testing, we had no idea what the final results would be. Our best guesses were that Ryzen was going to sit between the 7700K and 5820K in most tests or suffer worse performance at resolutions above 1080P due to the DDR4 memory latency issues we saw when testing the CPU and motherboard last week. Of course, in real-world testing like this, it didn’t seem to make much of a difference, at least regarding what you would notice as a consumer. In almost all tests (things didn’t go perfectly in Far Cry Primal) the Ryzen 1800X gave the best frame rates at all resolutions, and even more so when pushed to 1440P and 2160P, where the 8-core 16-thread design of the CPU was able to relieve the GTX 1080 Ti of any bottlenecks in performance."

It's simply a stronger gpu tested at 4k setting.

http://www.eteknix.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-cpu-showdown-i7-7700k-vs-ryzen-r7-1800x-vs-i7-5820k/9/
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
inf64 said:
As can be seen, moving on to 67% faster GPU ( 1080ti vs 1070) brings no change in relative performance between 6900K and 1800X. 1800x or even better 1700 is a best SKU from eprf./$ POV currently on the market. The situation in 2-3 years will mimic 2500K vs 8350 and how the performance evolved. The problem for intel is that Ryzen is not Bulldozer and is nearly identical IPC wise uarchitecture. It will be a carnage

I wonder why you're avoiding Hardware.fr results. You have used their charts for your K10, Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller/Excavator and even Ryzen predictions.



According to them Broadwell-E is still 20% faster (SMT off) / 28% faster (SMT on) per clock in CPU limited gaming scenarios. Now imagine what a Skylake-X CPU with improved IPC (newer core + new cache structure with 4x the L2), and likely capable of hitting 10-20% higher clocks than Summit Ridge under OC will be able to do. A real carnage in some situations, just not the one you're expecting.

Edit: My post already includes the updated chart.
 
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inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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Yes SKL-X 8C will clock to 4.8-5Ghz, will have 15% IPC gain and other fairytales.

This is updated chart by hardware.fr:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/956-6/piledriver-zen-broadwell-e-3-ghz.html

Notice there are a few outliers in games and also a few apps that skew the average . Once the core parking stuff and schedulers are sorted out, Ryzen will be a fine gaming CPU.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/956-22/indices-performance.html
As can be seen from the updated average charts, It can only get better for AMD. For a fraction of a price of 16T intel part we can finally get 90% of that performance. It is mind blowing. And as extremetech showed, pairing Ryzen with 67% faster GPU nets no relative change in performance Vs 6900K, Ryzen scales the same.
 
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