Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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https://benchlife.info/intel-z370-q370-b350-h310-pch-for-coffe-lake-04162017/

As expected, Coffee Lake still uses LGA 1151.

Q4 2017 would be nice.

As usual, nice find mikk. From the article above:

Hexa-core Coffee Lake launching Q4-2017, will use socket LGA 1151 like current Skylake/Kaby Lake

- In H2-2017 we can expect two new platforms from Intel, HEDT X299 and a mainstream successor to Z270
- Confirms Coffee Lake-S will provide mainstream 6C/12T products
- Intel's first mainstream processor to increase the number of cores/threads
- It's still socket LGA 1151
- There's new 300 series chipsets being launched with the new chip
- Integrated USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) and Gigabit Wi-Fi
- Z370, H370, H310, Q370, Q350 and B350
- Current plan is to launch Coffee Lake-S in the fourth quarter of 2017 (October-December)



https://benchlife.info/intel-z370-q370-b350-h310-pch-for-coffe-lake-04162017

BenchLife implies they are planning a hard launch this year, even before CES 2018 (my original expectation). This is great news for the Intel LGA 1151 crowd, especially if the chip is compatible with 200 series motherboards.
 
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May 11, 2008
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I wonder if the AMD GPU + Intel CPU combination will also support the zero copy functionality and the ability to read write into each others memory spaces directly without the need of copying data back and forth between gpu memory and cpu memory. If this is meant for Apple, It will probably not be the case unless Apple would enforce it. Intel is no member of the HSA foundation as far as i know. Intel does seem to be able to have support to a degree for writing and reading in shared virtual memory. Maybe they are able to implement it. I do not know if it is compatible with the solution AMD has which is highly likely a HSA standard. Because HSA is by its nature very beneficial especially when it comes to power saving. Reading and writing in a pool of shared memory by only passing of pointers is a lot less energy consuming then constantly copying large amounts of data from one position in memory to another position in memory.
Since Apple is all about being mobile and low power consumption. It would make sense that Apple would prefer a HSA GPU + CPU combination. I can imagine that Intel will go through great lengths to keep Apple as a customer. Apple has a way of just switching sides if they benefit greatly from it. And now that Zen has shown to be a potent cpu design, a future Ryzen on a matured process might be just what Apple will find interesting when thinking of HSA. Then again, if the ARM designs of Apple and the GPU designs of Apple pan out to be high performance, Apple might just ditch Intel and AMD in the future in favour of their in house designs. ARM is also a HSA foundation member so, Apple might already be very familiar with the whole HSA concept.

http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?doc_id=1329321
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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From the latest version of AIDA:

  • Release notes:
    • Cache & Mem Bench / right-click context menu on Save button to enable XML output
    • Display / GPU / detection of WDDM 2.2 capability
    • anti-virus software support for Norton Security v22
    • firewall software support for Norton Security v22
    • motherboard specific sensor info for Asus B350M-Dragon, EX-B250M-V, EX-H110M-V3, H110M-C/PS, H110M-P/DVI, H110T-A, Prime A320M-K, Prime B350M-E, Prime B350M-K, Prime X370-A, X99-E
    • preliminary support for Intel Ice Lake CPU
    • physical CPU information for Intel Cannon Lake, Denverton
    • GPU information for low- and mid-range next-gen AMD Radeon RX Series
    • GPU information for Intel Coffee Lake
    • GPU information for nVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 (GP108)
    • GPU information for nVIDIA Titan Xp (GP102)
    • preliminary GPU information for Intel Cannon Lake
    • preliminary GPU information for Intel Gemini Lake
    • chipset information for Intel Coffee Lake IMC
    • chipset information for Intel Kaby Lake-U Refresh IMC
    • preliminary chipset information for Intel Cannon Lake IMC
    • fixed: motherboard specific sensor info for MSI AM4 Series
    • fixed: DRAM:BCLK ratio detection for Kaby Lake IMC, Coffee Lake IMC
    • fixed: NIC interface speed detection for 5+ Gbps connections
www.aida64.com/downloads/NjdhNTg2NzY=


Out of curiosity, preliminary support for Skylake was added March 26, 2014. First Skylake CPUs launched August 5, 2015.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
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6 core Coffee Lake on Z270 would be great.

Yes, Hexacore on a mainstream platform makes allot of sense. Intel needs really high clocks to defend against Ryzen though.
I've been waiting till I can afford a new build on Intel's HEDT platform, but it's looking like I have less expensive options now.
Sadly, my wife's computer will be upgraded first
 
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escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
Must be getting old but that Coffee Lake chipset is meh. DMI should have been updated stat, USB 3.1 Type C or otherwise is irrelevant until way more external HDDs start supporting it and gigabit wireless is just as marginal. Southbridge still hasn't been integrated into the CPU either. At least the hobo cut down H110 successor makes a return.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
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I think intel certainly needs to bring 6 and 8 cores to the mainstream. The issue with intel IMO is they simply don't know how to charge a reasonable price anymore. I'm sure Skylake-x will be great, but if it still costs $1000 for an 8 core chip, no one will buy the thing except for a few enthusiasts. 95% of people wanting more than four cores will spend their money elsewhere.
 

SAAA

Senior member
May 14, 2014
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Intel Stratix 10 FPGA main die measures 560 mm2 and contains 17 billion transistors.
EMIB is used to connect the main die to 6 transceiver dies.

link

Thank you for the info, also this article should put some rest on the Intel claimed density vs real products effective one: 17 B transistors / 560 mm2 =30M transistors/mm2, so actually twice what their core line reaches on the same 14 nm process... yeah density depends on product and design more so than the node used.
Of course this FGPA runs at 1 GHz rather than 4.5 GHz like core cpus so the HP process is less dense for a reason... yet it seems still low when Zen sits at 24 M transistors/mm2 and can reach up to 4 GHz, 3.5 more effortlessly.
Is the heat/power issue really so great that you have to lower density over 50% to reach 500 MHz-1 GHz above?

I think intel certainly needs to bring 6 and 8 cores to the mainstream. The issue with intel IMO is they simply don't know how to charge a reasonable price anymore. I'm sure Skylake-x will be great, but if it still costs $1000 for an 8 core chip, no one will buy the thing except for a few enthusiasts. 95% of people wanting more than four cores will spend their money elsewhere.

8 cores I don't know but 6 should have come a year sooner in my opinion. Intel didn't grant us that in 2016, with all the time after Skylake released in 2015 for designing a six core mainstream rather than only updating the process with Kabylake, so here they are in this messy situation against 6-8 cores Zen that are very competitive.

If Kabylake would have upped the game a with 4.2 GHz+turbo six cores at the same price it would have been really hard to decide: six faster cores (clocks+IPC) or eight for a little more money (1700X) or slightly less (1700)?
Coffelake will bring exactly this kind of questions but a year too late, let's see if 14nm++ makes it worth all the wait. Also who knows if Skylake-x six cores turns out to be better? It should be on 14nm+ btw...

IMHO it's starting to get all too mixed up with two core architectures on two different platforms. I'm probably waiting a bit still before upgrading to either Zen2 or Icelake when they're both out and compared in 2018, by that time we should have a clearer idea on what's better overall for a PC: more cores? More cache? Best single thread performance?

So does that mean we can expect desktop Icelake in Sept. 2018?

I'm expecting that to happen, just like Skylake released in time after the 14nm initial mess. On that note, 10nm+ shouldn't be much worse than 14nm++ and still be better than 14nm+ according to the slides, so clocks shouldn't fall too much from Coffelake. The process might allow for speeds as high as Kabylake can reach today... do we know if Icelake brings any core count increase then?

At ~half the size from Coffelake (149 mm2) the die might be just 80 mm2 or so for an enhanced six core, that's way to little. Triple the L3 cache like in the leaked Geekbench entry and it's still below 90 mm2... I'm not seeing mainstream dies that small till 7-5nm nodes.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Thank you for the info, also this article should put some rest on the Intel claimed density vs real products effective one: 17 B transistors / 560 mm2 =30M transistors/mm2, so actually twice what their core line reaches on the same 14 nm process... yeah density depends on product and design more so than the node used.

They still suck. Pascal is 17 billion transistors with 600mm2 die. It also clocks more than 1.5GHz, on a process that should have significantly lower design.

Of course density depends on a lot of factors than just speed and heat/power. But the point still stands. No reason to compare on a transistor-level when products show a whole different story. Intel transistors were always about performance, not density and that still seems true today.

Is the heat/power issue really so great that you have to lower density over 50% to reach 500 MHz-1 GHz above?

That's just one factor. SRAM happens to be dense because its a bunch of repeatable structures and when it is, making it dense is easy. Which is probably similar with FPGAs. Also, larger transistors tend to be able to drive more current. You can make different decisions at the circuit-level(which won't necessarily be public) that led to using more transistors to do a function faster than otherwise.

I think looking at the big picture its probably simple as a different mindset. Intel has been focused on very high performance circuits for so long, that aspect is firmly embedded in their design philosophy. A learning curve is going to be required to just catch up to TSMC because TSMC has been making very dense chips forever. Problem is, until making very dense chips become their main business, it won't really change.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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So this confirms Intel is going big with Cannon Lake's integrated graphics. Cheaper Celeron/Pentium (GT1) gets 24 EUs like current Kaby Lake (GT2), while the Core lineup gets 40 EUs (GT2). New architecture on top.

The descriptions are interesting. 5x8 means 5 subslices of 8 EUs, which is same configuration as Gen 8 and 9. So that does not change.

5x8 = 40EUs, 8 ROPs, 20 TMUs

Gen 9 GT2 is 3x8 which makes it 24EUs, 8 ROPs, and 12 TMUs.

In comparison, Bristol Ridge is 8 ROPs and 32 TMUs. 16 AMD shaders equal one Intel EU. The highest Intel config is GT4e Skylake with 72 EUs, 24 ROPs, 36 TMUs.

On a sidenote, I have a grip with GPU-Z because it always gets the ROP/TMU data for Intel GPUs wrong. Always.

- There's new 300 series chipsets being launched with the new chip
- Integrated USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) and Gigabit Wi-Fi

That's awesome. It'll lower the cost of building a system. Wi-Fi is good enough for desktop even most gaming. It'll also lower system BoM for system integrators. In laptops it'll lower power use increasing battery life.

gigabit wireless is just as marginal.

It may be for enthusiasts but for the market its a very welcome change. I, will personally use it. I use Wi-Fi already in all systems I use.


(Don't forget Anandtech's front page article about it)

The pictures are interesting. 6 DIMMs per CPU at 1 DPC. Some earlier Purley motherboards have shown 8 DIMMs per CPU at 1 DPC. The difference in count is due to Optane DIMM.

Based on what Intel was saying regarding Optane DIMMs, 2 of the 8 slots are for regular DDR4 DIMMs and the 6 leftover ones are for Optane DIMMs. Because what they said about the total capacity when using Optane, the DDR4 DIMMs likely act as a cache for the Optane DIMM both for performance and for endurance.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
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136
Targeted press events, I would imagine, like this year's manufacturing day. With so much being done online these days, the need for face time with OEMs, developers, customers and journalists has waned.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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The descriptions are interesting. 5x8 means 5 subslices of 8 EUs, which is same configuration as Gen 8 and 9. So that does not change.

5x8 = 40EUs, 8 ROPs, 20 TMUs

Gen 9 GT2 is 3x8 which makes it 24EUs, 8 ROPs, and 12 TMUs.

In comparison, Bristol Ridge is 8 ROPs and 32 TMUs. 16 AMD shaders equal one Intel EU. The highest Intel config is GT4e Skylake with 72 EUs, 24 ROPs, 36 TMUs.

On a sidenote, I have a grip with GPU-Z because it always gets the ROP/TMU data for Intel GPUs wrong. Always.

Kaby Lake-Refresh vs Cannon Lake-U clash at 15W TDP will be fun to watch. People will have to choose between 4C/8T and improved iGPU (40 EUs 'Gen 10') when picking their laptops/convertibles. Well, until Coffee Lake-U (4+3e) arrives, but I imagine Intel will demand a premium for it.
 
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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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Hexacore mainstream?
Thanks intel, I'm glad I waited. I love buying in at amazing times for the i7.

Edit: Also not as comparable to Ryzen since I believe the way SMT is tied to cores is in pairs as compared to intel? So I'm much happier to have intel bring more cores until Ryzen fixes that weird dual packaging, or offers like I dunno, 10-12 core CPUs that are decently priced.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Pricing, TDP and thermals will favor Cannonlake.

So 40 EUs for CNL. Icelake bumps that up to 48 then. I assume though it's equally possible we'll see big increase in Cannonlake as Icelake. The latter might do something about memory bandwidth. Also boosting Flops alone won't result in big gains. GT3e is a doubling of most parts while Cannonlake GT2 is more of a GT2+.

If you don't do it right you end up something akin to Fury. The extra shaders are wasted because the bottlenecks are elsewhere. Fillrate to say an example. Also, even if it's not particularly bottlenecked, doubling of performance necessitate you double everything, Flops, fillrate, memory bandwidth.
 
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Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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Sharing this megaton with you guys first. This comes from a pre-publication from DigiTimes, thanks to a friend with a subscription. Should go public tomorrow and I'll update with the proper link then.

DigiTimes: Intel brings Coffee Lake launch forward to August 2017


Intel will unveil its Basin Falls platform, i.e. Skylake-X, Kaby Lake-X processors and X299 chipset, at Computex 2017 in Taipei during May 30-June 3 two months earlier than originally scheduled, and will bring forward the launch of Coffee Lake microarchitecture based on a 14nm process node from January 2018 originally to August 2017, to cope with increasing competition from AMD's Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 5 processors, according to Taiwan-based PC vendors.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Great news if true. Intel might target the Gamescom for the launch from 23th-27th August.
 

nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
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Yes, Coffee Lake 14++, Kaby Lake 14+.

Big scoop there, Sweeper.

Can we change this thread's title to add in Coffee Lake also, since it's same architecture mostly as Kaby Lake?
 
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