Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Ajay]

6C SKX has greater # of PCIe lanes, higher IPC, and it gets you onto the X299 platform.

Four more lanes, IIRC; roughly = throughput though; I'll give you the last one
Otherwise, I think it'll be a bit confusing to ppl who don't lurk in online tech forums, etc.

 

[gx_saurav]

Although I purchased a Core i5 7500 in January this year, I have been itching towards getting a Core i7 7700 (Non K) for use on my Gigabyte B150 Chipset based motherboard because 4C-8T is more future proof (I am thinking 4+ years here) in terms of gaming and regular desktop usage. For those of us who do not overclock, this is a best VFM Intel CPU right now with future proofing in mind.

I just wonder if Coffee Lake will arrive on Intel B150 Chipset with a BIOS update because Kaby Lake did arrive. If they decide not to support Coffee Lake on B150 chipset then I will just upgrade to a Core i7 7700 as that will be last "best" fitting CPU for my needs and be done with it for 4+ years. I doubt Intel to be that generous to support Coffee Lake on B150 Chipset released in Q3 of 2015.

If they do support Coffee Lake on B150 chipset, I will buy Coffee Lake 4C-8T CPU or whatever is equivalent at that time.

Considering how slow game engines evolve and that most games are port of consoles which are optimized for Console's 8T CPU, I think this 4C-8T i7 7700 will be suitable fit till April 2021 easily when I have planned for my next CPU upgrade if at all needed. What do you guys think?

 

[w3rd]

Well from what I've been seeing lately, the 7700k is still king of the hill regarding gaming and I don't play MP games, so it seems it will be a great upgrade from my 2500k.

From what I have seen I am looking at about 50% more gaming performance in cpu limited cases and around 100% in apps. If the 2500k lasted me so long, I believe I will be ok.

I think I am going to challenge you on that^. These reviewers can't even remotely back up that claim, that the 7700 is the best gaming CPU. I run three different i7 gaming rigs & understand, that for any and every benchmark you will see with a 7700k in it, is with ONLY that benchmark running...!

Unfortunately, that^ is not how Gamers, game..!

So these benchmarks are completely invalid, because they exist in a sterile vacuum. Intel is business, and it's technology is having a hard time reaching the Gamer. I see my 4790k struggling with Battlefield, so much so, that I can't multi-task.


Also, I still am confused as to what Coffee Lake is going to bring? Or what chipset, etc.
I've never been one to be fuddled by Intel's road map & direction, but what a mess all this skylake-x thing is. Intel seems all rash, moving their portfolio around reacting to Ryzen. It is hard to tell rumor from fact. Released dates are getting moved, etc.


Also, sitting here I am having a hard time wrapping my head around Intel's new platform. For me, the 7700 does little over an OC 4790 in games. I am looking for bigger gains if building a new gaming rig. And when I do upgrade/replace that rig, it will be with 8core, or higher.

Is that coffee Lake..?

 

[Ajay]

We don't know yet if Intel/mobo makers will support Intel 1XX motherboards. 2XX series, highly probable based on recent behavior. You'll just have to wait and see.

 

[jelome1989]

For me, the 7700 does little over an OC 4790 in games. I am looking for bigger gains if building a new gaming rig. And when I do upgrade/replace that rig, it will be with 8core, or higher.

Is that coffee Lake..?

Depends on how you define "little". The 7700k offers 10-15% improvement over a 4790k in games. If what Intel claims is true - that Coffee Lake has a 15% increase in IPC over Kaby and if it can clock to 4.5ghz+, then you'd be looking at a 20-25% increase in performance over a 4790k with 50% more cores/threads.

It could be Coffee Lake.

 

[coercitiv]

If what Intel claims is true - that Coffee Lake has a 15% increase in IPC over Kaby

Coffee Lake uses same core arch as Kaby Lake and Skylake. What you saw from Intel, that claim for 15% increase in performance, was for mobile only and obtained through a combination of better base and sustained turbo clocks.

 

[jelome1989]

Coffee Lake uses same core arch as Kaby Lake and Skylake. What you saw from Intel, that claim for 15% increase in performance, was for mobile only and obtained through a combination of better base and sustained turbo clocks.

Yeah, also found out the source and it was for SysMark: https://twitter.com/intelnews/status/829773829471744000
So desktop Coffee Lake 8700k is essentially Kaby Lake 7700k, performance-wise, but with 50% more cores/threads, no?

 

[chucky2]

So from these leaks:

1.) Cannonlake isn't going to be a desktop chip?
2.) Coffee Lake will be only desktop, and will release with same socket as 100 and 200 series chipsets, but with its own new chipset (that hardly looks changed from 200 series)?

I was going to ask if Cannonlake was rumored to run in 200 or 300 series desktop chipset boards, but if it's truly mobile only then that would answer that...

 

[Sweepr]

So from these leaks:

1.) Cannonlake isn't going to be a desktop chip?

It won't. The Cannon Lake version suitable for desktops has been cancelled. Cannon Lake right now is a 5-15W dual-core with much improved integrated graphics for notebooks.

2.) Coffee Lake will be only desktop, and will release with same socket as 100 and 200 series chipsets, but with its own new chipset (that hardly looks changed from 200 series)?
I was going to ask if Cannonlake was rumored to run in 200 or 300 series desktop chipset boards, but if it's truly mobile only then that would answer that...

Coffee Lake will come in three versions:

- 4C/8T with Iris Pro Graphics for light notebooks (15W TDP)
- 6C/12C for notebooks (should be 35-55W TDP)
- 4C/8T and 6C/12T for desktops (should be 35W-95W TDP)

It uses the same LGA 1151 socket as their previous Core 6th/7th Gen products and might be compatible with 200 series motherboards (waiting confirmation).

 

[jpiniero]

Maybe this?

12C SKX $1299
10C SKX $999
8C SKX $599 [R7 1800x]
6C SKX $449 $399 [R7 1700x]
6C SKX $389 cut lanes
6C CFL $349
4C8T CFL $249 (basically a 7700K)

Don't see the need for a cut down 6C SKX when a 6C CFL will match it performance wise and in 2x CF/SLI.

They need a Skylake-X model with cut lanes for yield reasons. I will say that it doesn't have to be 6 core though.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Depends on how you define "little". The 7700k offers 10-15% improvement over a 4790k in games. If what Intel claims is true - that Coffee Lake has a 15% increase in IPC over Kaby and if it can clock to 4.5ghz+, then you'd be looking at a 20-25% increase in performance over a 4790k with 50% more cores/threads.

It could be Coffee Lake.

Ehhhh look, Intel is getting more aggressive with their launch schedule (and by offering 12c Skylake-X), but they can't change what is CoffeeLake at this stage in the game, especially not when they are launching it early. There will be no IPC increase from Kaby to Coffee.

 

[Sweepr]

Ehhhh look, Intel is getting more aggressive with their launch schedule (and by offering 12c Skylake-X), but they can't change what is CoffeeLake at this stage in the game, especially not when they are launching it early. There will be no IPC increase from Kaby to Coffee.

That's true, but if the 6C Coffee Lake die increases L3 cache to 10-12 MB it might improve performance per clock compared to 4C Skylake / Kaby Lake, even if a tiny bit.

 

[cytg111]

I didn't realize there was that much of a difference in Vcore for that frequency. That being the case, seems quite reasonable to fit 6C/12T in 95W @ ~4 GHz.

Damn, I wish this was out NOW. My wife's computer is dog slow so we decided to spend our tax refund on it. We've talked about sharing the computer (since we use mobile devices more often now), in which case, I'd love a hexacore CFL. Boo Hoo :-\

Again, why is that vcore a big deal for that frequency lift?

To illustrate
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...that-sends-temperatures-skyrocketing.2449665/

Seems to me like 1.0 -> 1.2 for 3.6->4.4 is right on the money for the "left"side of those graphs.. ie. business as usual and not in exponential danger area on the "right" side of same graph.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's true, but if the 6C Coffee Lake die increases L3 cache to 10-12 MB it might improve performance per clock compared to 4C Skylake / Kaby Lake, even if a tiny bit.

It will for applications that can't/won't saturate the 6c part's thread capacity. L3 per thread will basically remain the same in sufficiently thread-parallel workloads.

 

[coercitiv]

I didn't realize there was that much of a difference in Vcore for that frequency. That being the case, seems quite reasonable to fit 6C/12T in 95W @ ~4 GHz.

For me the best model for the upcoming 6c/12t chip is not the 7700K, but rather the 7700HQ. That chip is rated for 3.4Ghz in MT loads and 45W TDP. Add 2 more cores and you could say 6c/12t @ 3.4Ghz for 65W TDP. That leaves us with 40%+ TDP margin for a 15%+ increase in frequency, so 4Ghz @ 95W TDP is indeed quite reasonable. It should go higher than that.

 

[tamz_msc]

That's true, but if the 6C Coffee Lake die increases L3 cache to 10-12 MB it might improve performance per clock compared to 4C Skylake / Kaby Lake, even if a tiny bit.

Lets see, 4+2 is 126 mm^2, 6+2 is 149 mm^2; Skylake cores are bigger than Ryzen cores, Skylake L3 is bigger than Ryzen L3(when you compare 4 core vs 4 core), and you expect 14nm+++ is going to be that big of an improvement that Intel can fit 2 more cores and an additional 2-4 MB L3 for just 23 mm^2 extra die space?

Nope, not gonna happen.

 

[Head1985]

Skylake memory scaling vs ryzen scaling at purepc
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,42
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,43

Also ignore ryzen dx12 results because they using NV GPU and its buged.

 

[tamz_msc]

Skylake memory scaling vs ryzen scaling at purepc
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,42
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,43

Also ignore ryzen dx12 results because they using NV GPU and its buged.

Um...wrong thread?

 

[Head1985]

Its about skylake and 7700k is skylake with little higher clock
Those numbers are very interesting.Skylake with fast ram is such beast.It is faster than both 5960x and 6900x 4.5Ghz.

 

[tamz_msc]

Its about skylake and 7700k is skylake with little higher clock
Those numbers are very interesting.Skylake with fast ram is such beast.It is faster than both 5960x and 6900x 4.5Ghz.

Still feel that this is better suited to the Official Ryzen discussion thread. Also, those Witcher 3 Novigrad results are way off.

 

[Bouowmx]

you expect 14nm+++ is going to be that big of an improvement that Intel can fit 2 more cores and an additional 2-4 MB L3 for just 23 mm^2 extra die space

Ian Cutress analyzed Intel Kaby Lake die areas: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11083/the-intel-core-i3-7350k-60w-review

2 cores are estimated to be 27.5 mm^2.

 

[tamz_msc]

Ian Cutress analyzed Intel Kaby Lake dies: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11083/the-intel-core-i3-7350k-60w-review

2 cores are estimated to be 27.4 mm^2.

That estimate is a bit high, as we have actual numbers from ISSCC putting Skylake at 12.25 mm^2 per core.

 

[Sweepr]

Skylake memory scaling vs ryzen scaling at purepc
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,42
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_amd_ryzen_7_1700_cenowy_rywal_core_i7_7700k?page=0,43
Also ignore ryzen dx12 results because they using NV GPU and its buged.

Skylake / Kaby Lake is such a beast with fast DDR4. Expect an even more pronounced difference with Coffee Lake. DDR4-3200+ is a must.

 

[Ajay]

Again, why is that vcore a big deal for that frequency lift?

To illustrate
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...that-sends-temperatures-skyrocketing.2449665/

Seems to me like 1.0 -> 1.2 for 3.6->4.4 is right on the money for the "left"side of those graphs.. ie. business as usual and not in exponential danger area on the "right" side of same graph.

Those curve are for Haswell (22nm). IIRC, that curve is shifted to the right for SKL/KBL (14nm/14nm+). I didn't find the exact graph I wanted, but this one illustrates the shift:

In mikk's scenario, we only have two data points and these were probably not taken with using a scope or DMM - so it's entirely possible that there is an unrepresented curvature.

Edit: must learn how to shrink online images :facepalm:

 

[Ajay]

It'll hit at least 4.5GHz. Remember, Broadwell-E on the crappy original 14nm and a rushed, sub-optimal physical implementation could hit about 4.4GHz for the six core models. Coffee Lake-S is two generations removed from that, and it's a really refined physical design, so expect really nice OC capability.

I would be surprised if it could not achieve 4.8GHz+ on high-end air/decent CLC.

IMHO, this is going to be the "sweet spot" -- high core count, high IPC, high frequency, all in a really nice platform. I'm pumped!

Looking over past i7 5820K overclocks, 4.5 GHz seems pretty typical for max overclock with those on AIOs/custom loops hitting 4.6-4.7 GHz. Seems like your bet on 4.8 GHz is pretty safe (assuming Intel doesn't Bork the TIM).