Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[2blzd]

new iMac Pro with 8-18core Intel Xeons + Vega. Not i9s. lol (could explain why vega is taking forever)

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/06/imac-pro-most-powerful-mac-arrives-december/

 

[Ajay]

So, Anywho - Intel seems to have put itself in an odd position by introducing Kaby-X and SKX HCC dies into the HEDT equation here. I don't know what is going on (aside from 'artificial' segmentation) - maybe a good chunk of it is poor messaging (per Linus, even system integrators are frustrated). So, I hope Intel clears thing up better by the SKX release date. Having something as awesome on the platform as VROK and then limiting it to only RAID 0 is just going to aggravate people who are spending big $$s on the x299 HEDT platform. I think Intel should at least off RAID 1 at no extra charge (that probably 95% of potential users needs).

There is just too much in term of performance, overclocking, etc. that is unknown at this point (aside from 'read the tea leaves' type 'leaks'). The first step in the SKX rollout has just left too many question on the table. Apparently, moving a release date forward by two months really has a high negative cost to the platform impression and Intel's reputation.

 

[coercitiv]

I should have said the difference wasn't going to be all clocks. Are you saying it is?

We will get a small bump in clocks, but the main jump comes from increasing core counts throughout the entire mainstream product stack. The 30% Intel quoted was based on a SYSmark score, more details (and references) in this post on another thread.

 

[Ajay]

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017...r-processors-thunderbolt-3-brighter-displays/

All powered by Kaby Lake, not a single competitor CPU to be seen, huge snub.

Not really, Intel and Apple have built a really good relationship. There is no secret there. I would have been really surprised if Apple went with an AMD CPU (especially at this point in Ryzen's development). The other thing is that Apple represents a small, but coveted percentage of the market. I just wouldn't be jumping up and down over this one point.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Most certainly. That 30% faster than Kabylake Intel is quoting won't happen without tweaking/reworking the cache and memory subsystem.

Wasn't that 30% only between it and this obscure CPU and thus not really representative? I don't see Intel doing 5-15% each release and then suddenly doing 30%.

For the sake of competition and choice, let's just hope TR arrives squeaky clean as possible. Nothing of those inter CCX and memory subsystem bugs that plagued the Ryzen launch.

Sadly I won't hold me breath because I think it will be plagued by the same or similar issues.

I think Intel's reworking of the cache system would alleviate any foreseen issues in this area.

That would be wise, but will they...? I doubt it. As someone else here said, it's the same arch only at 14nm++

Thank you - sorry about that. So is August still the best known timeline for 6c/12t coffee lake (the one everyone is hoping will do 4.8-5.0Ghz) then?

I think I'm back on the Skylake-X train. I just need to shut up and buy something haha. Reviews are out on the 12th so I guess I'll make a final decision then. I've been stuck in the "just wait another month" trap for way too long.

And remember, you'll have upgrade options on X299 (which lake X is following SKL-X again? CFL-X?)

I would recommend you to be careful and wait at least one month to see if Skylake-X has no serious bugs. If it does then Coffelake may be a better option. I will wait 2 months as I do not want random instability/lockups. That applies to every CPU including Threadripper and Coffelake.

The careful, better be safe than sorry approach is always good whereas CPUs and boards are involved. Let the BIOS mature, QVL expand, stability and performance, bugs being ironed out, etc.

 

[Ajay]

This is going to be a long week. The NDAs get lifted next Monday, then we will see real solid benchmarks and reviews.

Really, the NDA comes off on the 12th?

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Really, the NDA comes off on the 12th?

Yes sir

 

[utahraptor]

So, Anywho - Intel seems to have put itself in an odd position by introducing Kaby-X and SKX HCC dies into the HEDT equation here. I don't know what is going on (aside from 'artificial' segmentation) - maybe a good chunk of it is poor messaging (per Linus, even system integrators are frustrated). So, I hope Intel clears thing up better by the SKX release date. Having something as awesome on the platform as VROK and then limiting it to only RAID 0 is just going to aggravate people who are spending big $$s on the x299 HEDT platform. I think Intel should at least off RAID 1 at no extra charge (that probably 95% of potential users needs).

There is just too much in term of performance, overclocking, etc. that is unknown at this point (aside from 'read the tea leaves' type 'leaks'). The first step in the SKX rollout has just left too many question on the table. Apparently, moving a release date forward by two months really has a high negative cost to the platform impression and Intel's reputation.

Some people are saying Kaby Lake X was part of a test to see if they could take unlocked processors entirely out of the consumer segment. Pressure from Rhyzen may have delayed those plans.

 

[ManyThreads]

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/06/imac-pro-most-powerful-mac-arrives-december/

iMac Pro will ship with Xeon Skylake-SP up to 18 cores, huge design win for Intel and a huge snub to Threadripper.

I believe Mac sales make up less than 10% of apple revenue, and of that 9% or so, I've got to imagine the Xeon machines are a tiny fraction of overall Mac sales.

 

[ManyThreads]

And remember, you'll have upgrade options on X299 (which lake X is following SKL-X again? CFL-X?)

Ah, I did not know that, thanks. Even more reason to just get Skylake X and be done with it, for me anyway.

 

[TahoeDust]

Really, the NDA comes off on the 12th?

That's what I am hearing.

 

[Malogeek]

Agreed. If we look at statistics on Steam http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/ we can see that AMD usage on Windows has been dropping and Ryzen changed nothing. And Intel had nothing really interesting during that time. Now with release of Skylake-X and Coffelake it seems this trend will continue.

I wondered about this as it didn't make sense. Personally on my Ryzen system and another one I know, Steam hasn't prompted their hardware survey for my account. So as far as Steam is concerned, I'm still running my 3570k.




This is the skylake thread. Not an AMD/ryzen/steam thread.

If you want to discuss that particular topic, make a separate thread.



esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Karnak]

I wondered about this as it didn't make sense. Personally on my Ryzen system and another one I know, Steam hasn't prompted their hardware survey for my account. So as far as Steam is concerned, I'm still running my 3570k.

Only 24.42% of all Intel CPUs are running at 3.3GHz or above, the rest below.

Just look at those numbers and you know what Intel CPUs most of the people are using. At least on steam.



This is the skylake thread. Not an AMD/ryzen/steam thread.

If you want to discuss that particular topic, make a separate thread.



esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[TheLycan]

Omg, whats up with this ? Where is the liberty of speach? Do you want me to say Intel, intel, intel... Ryzen is better (oups..)

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk





Sigh.......................


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Sweepr]

Gigabyte said

From the link:

''The new CPU performance on the upgrade will enable consumers to have the power to upgrade the entire platform.''

''On the 300 series motherboard, because of the reasons I can not talk about NDA, we can wait for the August conference, when Gigabyte will give you a surprise''

They seem confident about Coffee Lake's performance. Will be a long wait till August. At least we have Skylake-X reviews in a week to keep us entertained.

 

[DrMrLordX]

There is one thing we could learn from Basin Falls, and that is whether or not we'll see a reflection of system performance at DDR4 speeds between 2133 and 2400 that we see in client-side Skylake-S/k systems. According to one of Anandtech's old Skylake articles, there was a considerable increase in performance moving from DDR4-2133 to DDR4-2400 (dual channel) on a 4c/8t system that could not be accounted for by latency alone. Beyond DDR4-2400, CAS/CL and memory clock gave basically the same performance profile assuming DDR4 rating increased by 266 for every incremental increase in CAS/CL. Will we see that same phenomenon with 8c/16t Skylake-X on a quad channel system? How will memory clockspeed affect the CPUs with higher core counts?

Assuming everything follows the same pattern as the Skylake-S systems reviewed by Anandtech, Skylake-X users will need a minimum of quad channel DDR4-2400 for proper performance on 8c parts. 10c will require DDR4-3000, while 18c parts would need a whopping DDR4-5400 which is not going to happen.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

From the link:

GIGABYTE Technology and Motherboard Business Unit said:
''The new CPU performance on the upgrade will enable consumers to have the power to upgrade the entire platform.''

''On the 300 series motherboard, because of the reasons I can not talk about NDA, we can wait for the August conference, when Gigabyte will give you a surprise''

They seem confident about Coffee Lake's performance. Will be a long wait till August. At least we have Skylake-X reviews in a week to keep us entertained.

That quote is so cryptic and typical PR talk it's meaningless in my eyes, sorry Sweepr.

Ah, I did not know that, thanks. Even more reason to just get Skylake X and be done with it, for me anyway.

Good plan. With CFL-S it's the end of the line - CNL-S/TGL-S will require yet another socket. SKL-X will provide you with another round of CPUs. Since both require you buy a new board etc. anyway you may as well go for the better platform (SKL-X) -- that's the way I looked at it and decided anyway, you may of course look at it differently.

There is one thing we could learn from Basin Falls, and that is whether or not we'll see a reflection of system performance at DDR4 speeds between 2133 and 2400 that we see in client-side Skylake-S/k systems. According to one of Anandtech's old Skylake articles, there was a considerable increase in performance moving from DDR4-2133 to DDR4-2400 (dual channel) on a 4c/8t system that could not be accounted for by latency alone. Beyond DDR4-2400, CAS/CL and memory clock gave basically the same performance profile assuming DDR4 rating increased by 266 for every incremental increase in CAS/CL. Will we see that same phenomenon with 8c/16t Skylake-X on a quad channel system? How will memory clockspeed affect the CPUs with higher core counts?

Assuming everything follows the same pattern as the Skylake-S systems reviewed by Anandtech, Skylake-X users will need a minimum of quad channel DDR4-2400 for proper performance on 8c parts. 10c will require DDR4-3000, while 18c parts would need a whopping DDR4-5400 which is not going to happen.

Digital Foundry showed that SKL-S, at least for games and I'm not sure how it'll work for prosumers but probably the same, a lower clocked CPU with higher frequency RAM (3000) beat itself when OC'd (4.5) but with lower frequency RAM - and by quite a margin! I presume it'll be the same for SKL-X where it probably is extremely beneficial to use 3000-3200+ quad channel RAM paired with a decent OC on the CPU itself.

 

[jpiniero]

Some people are saying Kaby Lake X was part of a test to see if they could take unlocked processors entirely out of the consumer segment

I think they are, but the move would be done with Icelake. Gotta get there first.

 

[Ajay]

IDK. It's dumb to have 20, 28 and 44 PCIe lanes plus dual and quad channel on one platform. If PCIe 4.0 comes online with Icelake, that may change the equation. Right now it's nuts, IMHO.

 

[wahdangun]

The chance is slim. They just outright won't offer that functionality (RAID from CPU PCIe lanes) to add some more market segmentation. But I think that is perfectly ok. who really needs raided M.2 drives?

so what is the purpose of this X299 platform if they lock basic raid function ?? i mean this is not mainstream platform, that majority use only for gaming.

i mean even RAID 1 is locked, its very important for me, because i want to use it as database server, and data redundancy, is quite important.

I'm still can't believe it that intel can be this stupid.

 

[XavierMace]

so what is the purpose of this X299 platform if they lock basic raid function ?? i mean this is not mainstream platform, that majority use only for gaming.

i mean even RAID 1 is locked, its very important for me, because i want to use it as database server, and data redundancy, is quite important.

I'm still can't believe it that intel can be this stupid.

This isn't a server platform, it's an enthusiast consumer platform. The number of users in that market that care about any RAID besides 0 is tiny.

 

[formulav8]

Yes sir

What is expected to be available and when?

 

[formulav8]

This isn't a server platform, it's an enthusiast consumer platform.

Actually more than just consumer. And Intel will most likely block ECC support on purpose again on this platform? Do you expect that to happen? Will Intel require Xeon's again for that?

 

[wahdangun]

This isn't a server platform, it's an enthusiast consumer platform. The number of users in that market that care about any RAID besides 0 is tiny.

its for PROsumer, not your standard L33t gamer RGB maniac, data redundancy is a must have feature, especially now that TLC ssd taking hold in ssd market (never have and will never ever consider TLC with its sub-par reliability), so in the even that i can't purchase MLC SSD i can at least raid 1, the drive.

and lack of raid 1 option in NVME is what holding me out to move out from sata interface.

 

[XavierMace]

ECC isn't a "consumer feature either", so it wouldn't surprise me nor do I care either way. If you want workstation features, buy an actual workstation.