Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[CHADBOGA]

Iris Pro is a bandaid solution because Intel has a worse GPU arch than AMD, so they have to compensate by using more GPU die area plus expensive eDRAM.

When you own your own fabs & have a lead in high performance manufacturing process, you have the luxury of playing around with more die area.

Also, doesn't the eDram that Intel use cost them about $3?

Just because they charge a price premium for it, doesn't mean it is expensive for Intel to produce.

 

[Fjodor2001]

You should be comparing like with like, and compare Zen to Skylake & future Intel products it will be up against.

What Intel mainstream 8 core desktop CPUs are there to compare with? And no, HEDT are not mainstream.

 

[Fjodor2001]

When you own your own fabs & have a lead in high performance manufacturing process, you have the luxury of playing around with more die area.

Also, doesn't the eDram that Intel use cost them about $3?

Just because they charge a price premium for it, doesn't mean it is expensive for Intel to produce.

It's expensive to buy for the GPU performance you get, which is what matters to consumers.

 

[jpiniero]

It's expensive to buy for the GPU performance you get, which is what matters to consumers.

True, which is why sales of Iris Pro haven't been so hot. Then again, nobody is buying AMD's stuff either.

 

[CHADBOGA]

What Intel mainstream 8 core desktop CPUs are there to compare with? And no, HEDT are not mainstream.

We were discussing the IGP.

Please pay attention.

 

[CHADBOGA]

It's expensive to buy for the GPU performance you get, which is what matters to consumers.

You were talking about Intel's limitations and now you move the goalposts once it has been pointed out to you that a choice isn't a limitation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Desktop Broadwell is just a tiny niche product made probably to save face considering the general 14nm delays

Just as an aside, considering how limited Desktop Brodwell availability is, and how it's a quad-core die, that's probably not used for mobile (is it?), will Intel even make back their mask costs with those Desktop SKUs?

 

[Sweepr]

Just as an aside, considering how limited Desktop Brodwell availability is, and how it's a quad-core die, that's probably not used for mobile (is it?), will Intel even make back their mask costs with those Desktop SKUs?

Apparently Apple will use them in their new iMacs (and possibly other products).

 

[LTC8K6]

It's expensive to buy for the GPU performance you get, which is what matters to consumers.

Have we seen the performance of GT4e anywhere?

I don't think so?

 

[LTC8K6]

Certainly not when perf/price is taken into account. AMD has the lead there.

It's a lead that no one seems to want.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Apparently Apple will use them in their new iMacs (and possibly other products).

Didn't the i7-5775C show up in a DTR laptop recently? I think someone linked it in the Broadwell thread.

Have we seen the performance of GT4e anywhere?

I don't think so?

No. It doesn't exist yet, though it'll be a beast once it shows up. Unless AMD pulls something big off with Bristol Ridge in Q3 2016, it'll be 2017 before they have anything to compete with it (Raven Ridge).

 

[Fjodor2001]

We were discussing the IGP.

Please pay attention.

What iGPU do you envision there to be in the iGPU-less Zen CPU?

And if you're talking about any future Zen APU, then we do not know how its iGPU will perform anyway. But based on past track record, it's going to perform better than Intel's iGPU, if the same amount of transistors and die area is allocated to the iGPU in both cases.

 

[Fjodor2001]

You were talking about Intel's limitations and now you move the goalposts once it has been pointed out to you that a choice isn't a limitation.

Here's what I said:

Iris Pro is a bandaid solution because Intel has a worse GPU arch than AMD, so they have to compensate by using more GPU die area plus expensive eDRAM.

It's quite obvious the drawback to such a solution is that it's costly.

Intel could simply have added X number of EUs years ago and thereby by "brute force" have beaten AMD in the pure iGPU performance race. But it would simply be too costly so nobody would buy it.

Iris Pro is borderline the same thing. It does sell. But it's still too expensive, so it does not sell in very large quantities.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It's a lead that no one seems to want.

The customers want it allright.

But AMD's perf/cost lead in iGPU is let down by their not so well performing CPU cores. That's why their APUs do not sell so well.

You have to consider the complete package, both iGPU and CPU.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Oh the goalpost shifting

 

[ShintaiDK]

Also, doesn't the eDram that Intel use cost them about $3?

Yep, It was estimated to be 3$.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Yep, It was estimated to be 3$.

Surely not for the end consumer though, which likely to a large degree explains why Iris Pro is not selling so well.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Pre-order prices of Skylake desktop CPUs:

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015063001_Pre-order_prices_of_Skylake_desktop_CPUs.html

Compared to previous generation, the pre-order prices of Skylake CPUs are about 13% - 19% higher than the official prices of desktop Haswell chips. It is important to remember that that the market prices are usually higher than the official ones, and that pre-order prices may go down a bit once the processors are released.

Skylake model, Box partnr, Pre-order price, Predecessor model, Predecessor price
i5-6400  BX80662I56400  $211.06 i5-4460  $182   
i5-6500  BX80662I56500  $227.86 i5-4590  $192   
i5-6600  BX80662I56600  $251.87 i5-4690  $213   
i5-6600K BX80662I56600K $273.48 i5-4690K $242   
i7-6700  BX80662I76700  $351.52 i7-4790  $303   
i7-6700K BX80662I76700K $393.53 i7-4790K $339

 

[Enigmoid]

Pre-order prices of Skylake desktop CPUs:

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015063001_Pre-order_prices_of_Skylake_desktop_CPUs.html

Skylake model, Box partnr, Pre-order price, Predecessor model, Predecessor price
i5-6400  BX80662I56400  $211.06 i5-4460  $182   
i5-6500  BX80662I56500  $227.86 i5-4590  $192   
i5-6600  BX80662I56600  $251.87 i5-4690  $213   
i5-6600K BX80662I56600K $273.48 i5-4690K $242   
i7-6700  BX80662I76700  $351.52 i7-4790  $303   
i7-6700K BX80662I76700K $393.53 i7-4790K $339

Hopefully not. In Canada add another 20% to than and 13% sales tax.
Pretty much no point for the 6700k if this is true. Just buy a 5280K.

 

[ShintaiDK]

There is already a huge variance in "first listing" prices. It was no different than with haswell. People should know better.

 

[MountainKing]

Does that mean prices will be probably higher or lower? Some people are out of the loop you know

 

[ShintaiDK]

Does that mean prices will be probably higher or lower? Some people are out of the loop you know

Take Haswell prices. Add 0-5% for CPI adjustments. Tho the strong dollar can change that in a positive way for (US) consumers.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=110591
323$ for a 6600K. Not going to happen. Also thats already 50$ difference from PC Connection that is already way high.

While the cheapest current 6600K seems to be in france at roughly 250$.

 

[LTC8K6]

The customers want it allright.

But AMD's perf/cost lead in iGPU is let down by their not so well performing CPU cores. That's why their APUs do not sell so well.

You have to consider the complete package, both iGPU and CPU.

IIRC Haswell and later are DX12 compliant, and for AMD you need GCN based graphics for DX12 compliance.

So for AMD desktop APU, you need at least Kaveri for DX12.

 

[Sweepr]

Didn't the i7-5775C show up in a DTR laptop recently? I think someone linked it in the Broadwell thread.

There's this one from Eurocom/Clevo:

www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-P7-Pro-Clevo-P770ZM-Notebook-Review.144322.0.html

No. It doesn't exist yet, though it'll be a beast once it shows up. Unless AMD pulls something big off with Bristol Ridge in Q3 2016, it'll be 2017 before they have anything to compete with it (Raven Ridge).

From the current leaks AMD says Bristol Ridge is only 15% faster than Carrizo @ 3DMark 11. No chance it will match Skylake GT4e, let alone Kabylake GT4e 2x 128MB. Let's see if they can deliver something better with their Zen APU in 2017, but Intel probably won't stand still either (Cannonlake/Icelake).

http://benchlife.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMD_Bristol_Ridge_Feature-1024x724.jpg

 

[DrMrLordX]

There's this one from Eurocom/Clevo:

www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-P7-Pro-Clevo-P770ZM-Notebook-Review.144322.0.html

I think that's the one. I only recognize it from the screenshot of the heatpipes inside the unit.

From the current leaks AMD says Bristol Ridge is only 15% faster than Carrizo @ 3DMark 11. No chance it will match Skylake GT4e, let alone Kabylake GT4e 2x 128MB. Let's see if they can deliver something better with their Zen APU in 2017, but Intel probably won't stand still either (Cannonlake/Icelake).

That figures. Bristol Ridge is only 512 shaders anyway; Raven Ridge is supposed to be some 200-300W TDP monster in its beefiest incarnation. Bristol Ridge is just a stopgap.