Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[mikk]

Plus Intel drivers still suck for their video cards. They display artefacts, some games basically don't work etc.

Nonsense.

 

[frozentundra123456]

What they need to do is put iris pro on a wider range of products. In any case though, I still dont buy the igp replacing mid range dgpus. Broadwell iris pro is close to what, GT 740? Even a 50% improvement is going to put it what, maybe GT750 level, but by the time that comes out there will hopefully be 14/16 nm dgpus that are a lot faster and more efficient in the 150.00 class. I could see them replacing 100.00 and lower dgpus, but mid-range, I dont buy it. The only possibility of that I see is with a Zen apu with HBM and something like twice the shaders of Kaveri. But that is probably 2 years, give or take away, and who knows what a mid-range dgpu will be like then.

 

[Phynaz]

Maybe HT is the one who reduces OC potential in contrast to real cores.

I don't think you understand how HT works. There are no real vs unreal cores. An I7 has the same number of cores as an I5.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I don't think you understand how HT works. There are no real vs unreal cores. An I7 has the same number of cores as an I5.

Yeah. Hyperthreading duplicates SOME sections of the CPU, but not the execution engine itself. It more or less makes some parts of the CPU dual issue, allowing for faster context switching.

 

[majord]

What they need to do is put iris pro on a wider range of products. In any case though, I still dont buy the igp replacing mid range dgpus. Broadwell iris pro is close to what, GT 740? Even a 50% improvement is going to put it what, maybe GT750 level, but by the time that comes out there will hopefully be 14/16 nm dgpus that are a lot faster and more efficient in the 150.00 class. I could see them replacing 100.00 and lower dgpus, but mid-range, I dont buy it. The only possibility of that I see is with a Zen apu with HBM and something like twice the shaders of Kaveri. But that is probably 2 years, give or take away, and who knows what a mid-range dgpu will be like then.

Iris pro in its current form, whilst it has niche appeal (and within this niche, is quite excellent) has a perf/watt problem, and a cost problem. Whilst it handily beats out the highest spec AMD IGP's, it doesn't convincingly beat them out in perf/watt. Infact it's really only AMD's poor x86 perf/watt that makes them seem even close in that regard.

We will have to see how this is improved in Skylake to know how it will pan out next year when its Graphics competitors finally move onto a process 'parity'

The fact they're pairing 72 EU's on what I assume will be 65w TDP processors is promising, but again, 65w broadwell has no trouble blowing power consumption well past what its TDP would suggest when both IGP and CPU are stressed.

 

[IntelUser2000]

BGA Skylake GT4e could arrive by the end of the year or early 2016 (LGA desktops later). H2-2016 is Kabylake GT4e 2x 128MB eDRAM time.

So Intel is going to just release Skylake GT4e and Kabylake GT4e in 6-9 months of each other.

When things have been going slower every generation.

If anything Skylake GT4e would be late Q1 at April or so and Kabylake GT4e would be minimum 12 months after that, in Q1 2017.

but again, 65w broadwell has no trouble blowing power consumption well past what its TDP would suggest when both IGP and CPU are stressed.

There's nothing that suggests that it exceeds TDP. If it looks like it the only reason is in comparison to the HD 4600 touting parts like the 4790K.

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/619...l-on-your-desktop-power-consumptionnigpu-idle

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/619...er-consumptionnigpu-3dmark-cloud-gate-average

4790K
-Idle: 36W
-Load: 67.7W

Difference: 31.1W

5775C
-Idle: 26.4W
-Load: 83.5W

Difference: 57.1W

The HD 4600 has far lower performance which coupled with today's advancement power management means the CPU doesn't need to clock as high so you save power on both CPU and GPU.

The Iris Pro 6200 with higher performance means not only all 14nm perf/watt gains are used up for better performance meaning no less power used by the iGPU, the CPU is less bottlenecked and can clock far higher.

 

[Sweepr]

So Intel is going to just release Skylake GT4e and Kabylake GT4e in 6-9 months of each other.

Not necessarily, H2 means 6-12 months from early 2016.

When things have been going slower every generation.

Same 14nm process, likely same CPU cores, different iGPU and a few tweaks. It's clearly an evolutionary product, expect a smooth transition to Kabylake next year.

If anything Skylake GT4e would be late Q1 at April or so and Kabylake GT4e would be minimum 12 months after that, in Q1 2017.

Baseless speculation. I'd rather trust CPU-world on this.

At the end of 2015 or at the beginning of 2016, Intel will introduce BGA versions of Xeon E3-1200 v5 chips with Premium graphics, featuring GT4 GPU and 128 MB eDRAM. The processors will have 4 CPU cores, and support only DDR4 memory.

 

[ComputerGuy2006]

This is all very depressing. I feel my computer really needs an upgrade, but skylake is not looking good for the performance/price... Sad times, I hope broadwell-e in q1 on next year will impress...

 

[dark zero]

I don't think you understand how HT works. There are no real vs unreal cores. An I7 has the same number of cores as an I5.

I mean on physical components. There is a component that enables HT on Core i3 and i7.

 

[CHADBOGA]

This is all very depressing. I feel my computer really needs an upgrade, but skylake is not looking good for the performance/price... Sad times, I hope broadwell-e in q1 on next year will impress...

What are your specs?

 

[majord]

So Intel is going to just release Skylake GT4e and Kabylake GT4e in 6-9 months of each other.

When things have been going slower every generation.

If anything Skylake GT4e would be late Q1 at April or so and Kabylake GT4e would be minimum 12 months after that, in Q1 2017.

There's nothing that suggests that it exceeds TDP. If it looks like it the only reason is in comparison to the HD 4600 touting parts like the 4790K.

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/619...l-on-your-desktop-power-consumptionnigpu-idle

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/619...er-consumptionnigpu-3dmark-cloud-gate-average

4790K
-Idle: 36W
-Load: 67.7W

Difference: 31.1W

5775C
-Idle: 26.4W
-Load: 83.5W

Difference: 57.1W

The HD 4600 has far lower performance which coupled with today's advancement power management means the CPU doesn't need to clock as high so you save power on both CPU and GPU.

The Iris Pro 6200 with higher performance means not only all 14nm perf/watt gains are used up for better performance meaning no less power used by the iGPU, the CPU is less bottlenecked and can clock far higher.

Your example, apart from being a bad representation as it's an (Average over a cloudgate run, pretty much backs up what i'm saying. The Power budget is taken up largley by the IGP. Look at the Kaveri APU's, being only 2/4thread CPU, a higher proportion will be used by the CPU during cloudgate, yet even the inefficient 95w models are drawing the same power.

http://pclab.pl/art64766-8.html

This example shows in an actual games, you add a faster GTX 740 , and despite the extra overhead of a graphics card+DDR5 , it still uses the same power. The 750 blows it away.

And if you can find them, Have a look at some of the 45w mode Kaveri (7800) power consumption during gaming.. typically far less, despite the CPU's working harder

anyway Neither your example or mine addresses my comment about TDP. I'm talking about total possible consumption, fully Loaded. i.e prime+furmark . I did have an example but i'll have to find it when I get home. It seems very few people want to do these tests / analyse things properly in their reviews. Quite frustrating

 

[coercitiv]

Neither your example or mine addresses my comment about TDP. I'm talking about total possible consumption, fully Loaded. i.e prime+furmark.

But your comment wasn't about TDP, but rather about maximum power consumption, which is not the same thing.

It seems very few people want to do these tests / analyse things properly in their reviews. Quite frustrating

That's because most informed reviewers know Intel's power management is based on power metering, which allows the chip to fit exactly in it's rated TDP. And no, using 20-30% more power than rated TDP for limited periods of time due to Turbo Boost does not invalidate the TDP rating.

 

[mikk]

There's nothing that suggests that it exceeds TDP. If it looks like it the only reason is in comparison to the HD 4600 touting parts like the 4790K.

It might not exceed its 65W TDP but it's a limitation regarding clock frequency. BDW GT3e testers who increased the TDP were also able to increase the performance in iGPU tests because of a higher GPU Turbo.

 

[John Connor]

Stupid question, but I'm going to build a new PC soon and have bought the case and CPU cooler. I was going to use an i5 4670, but since I waited this long I might as well get a Skylake. Now my CPU cooler I bought is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. Does any one know if that CPU cooler will work for a Skylake CPU? I guess the CPU might have different dimensions? I really like this CPU cooler and it has good reviews so I hope I could use it without ebaying it, researching and buying a different cooler. Damn thing is brand new.

TIA.

 

[steve wilson]

This is all very depressing. I feel my computer really needs an upgrade, but skylake is not looking good for the performance/price... Sad times, I hope broadwell-e in q1 on next year will impress...

I would wait for a couple of official reviews from reputable sites before you make your mind up on that. The leaks might all be bullshit.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Stupid question, but I'm going to build a new PC soon and have bought the case and CPU cooler. I was going to use an i5 4670, but since I waited this long I might as well get a Skylake. Now my CPU cooler I bought is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. Does any one know if that CPU cooler will work for a Skylake CPU? I guess the CPU might have different dimensions? I really like this CPU cooler and it has good reviews so I hope I could use it without ebaying it, researching and buying a different cooler. Damn thing is brand new.

TIA.

As is so often the case, the mounting mechanism for a new platform (in this case LGA1151) is something that is not often discussed when the product is new. So, I can't confirm or deny that Z170 boards will use the same mounting mechanism as LGA1150. My guess is that the similarity in pinouts indicates a similarity in IHS dimensions and mounting mechanisms. That's just a guess.

Regardless, the 212 is very common in its many incarnations. There will likely be an update to the mount hardware if LGA1151's retension mechanism proves to be different enough to warrant such a change.

 

[phillyman36]

Stupid question, but I'm going to build a new PC soon and have bought the case and CPU cooler. I was going to use an i5 4670, but since I waited this long I might as well get a Skylake. Now my CPU cooler I bought is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. Does any one know if that CPU cooler will work for a Skylake CPU? I guess the CPU might have different dimensions? I really like this CPU cooler and it has good reviews so I hope I could use it without ebaying it, researching and buying a different cooler. Damn thing is brand new.

TIA.

The mounting holes are the same.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2439157&highlight=

 

[John Connor]

The mounting holes are the same.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2439157&highlight=

Thanks! Post number 10 confirms it. Thank god!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Asrock Z170 boards in stock and selling:

http://geizhals.eu/?cat=mbp4_1151&asd=on&asuch=z170

 

[richierich1212]

Asrock Z170 boards in stock and selling:

http://geizhals.eu/?cat=mbp4_1151&asd=on&asuch=z170

Hoping to pick up Z170 ITX mobo + 6700k on Aug. 5th.

 

[majord]

But your comment wasn't about TDP, but rather about maximum power consumption, which is not the same thing.

Yes, you're right, I did mean power consumption. And whilst they're not , and have never been the same thing, they can be considered the same under steady state load. The exception being as you state below..

That's because most informed reviewers know Intel's power management is based on power metering, which allows the chip to fit exactly in it's rated TDP. And no, using 20-30% more power than rated TDP for limited periods of time due to Turbo Boost does not invalidate the TDP rating.

Sure it doesn't invalidate it, but it should be considered by those reviewing the products. After all, some benchmarks are short in nature, others are long ( and can very a lot in things like encoding depending on the file size used).

Ultimately I think we need a large shift in the way performance and power consumption is evaluated. but I think we all know that.

 

[Sweepr]

Surface Pro 4 might have been delayed for Skylake

The dark satanic rumour mill has suggested a good reason Microsoft delayed the launch of its flagship tablet-laptop, Surface Pro 4.

The latest rumours suggest that Microsoft was waiting to jack the latest Intel Skylake processor under its bonnet.

Redmond seemingly wants the new Surface Pro to be state of the art and be a tablet which is useful. Skylake will give it better battery life and performance with current industry standards like Bluetooth 4.1, Cat6 LTE, WiDi 6.0, and A4WP wireless charging weaved into it.

Intel will support the tablets through compatibility with 3D cameras and audio processing software plus better stylus interaction.

www.fudzilla.com/news/38366-surface-pro4-might-have-been-delayed-for-skylake

 

[ComputerGuy2006]

What are your specs?

That is none of your concern.

I would wait for a couple of official reviews from reputable sites before you make your mind up on that. The leaks might all be bullshit.

Many leaks are showing similar things right now. But I based on the price these are rumored to be, I highly doubt its possible the chip performance can match up to the price. I am keeping my fingers crossed this info is wrong, but I am not hopeful.

 

[mscrivo]

That is none of your concern.

Why so hostile? Seems like he was just trying to be helpful since you said you really wanted to upgrade.

 

[ComputerGuy2006]

Why so hostile? Seems like he was just trying to be helpful since you said you really wanted to upgrade.

Because I remember him from another thread... He has no interest of being 'helpful'.