Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[dark zero]

Maybe Intel is making sure AMD doesn't come close... :biggrin:

Seems that they aren't after a corpse, they are after nVIDIA now

 

[Ajay]

Seems that they aren't after a corpse, they are after nVIDIA now

Would you please elaborate.

 

[IntelUser2000]

2x128MB would also be twice the bandwidth. Thats really interesting.

There's much better things to think about.

Why 2x 128MB? Why not 1x256MB? It sounds like there's something interesting coming or that its a hastily made part. It sounds expensive too. You guys really think putting another 80mm2 eDRAM die makes sense? 3 dies? Plus an external PCH?

That does not seem like much as they get into gt4e.

Current eDRAM bandwidth is enough.

Unless the graphics is surprisingly potent(ie. not 20% faster than Skylake), there's no reason for the eDRAM to have so much bandwidth. Wasn't Intel saying the current eDRAM is equal to 100-130GB/s GDDR5 because its a cache? Who needs 200-260GB/s on Geforce 750 Ti levels of performance?

Also, when is intel going to go to high bandwidth memory, whatever their equivalent is, instead of edram.

I don't think its purely for graphics purpose they opted for eDRAM. Custom silicon allows the company to do things you can't otherwise. Otherwise, they would have gone for HBM/HMC in the first place.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Why 2x 128MB? Why not 1x256MB? It sounds like there's something interesting coming or that its a hastily made part. It sounds expensive too.

Unless the graphics is surprisingly potent(ie. not 20% faster than Skylake), there's no reason for the eDRAM to have so much bandwidth. Wasn't Intel saying the current eDRAM is equal to 100-130GB/s GDDR5 because its a cache? Who needs 200-260GB/s on Geforce 750 Ti levels of performance?

They only make 128MB chips today. So either make a new 256MB one (with maybe 128bit interface). Or simply put 2 of those you already mass produce on 2x64bit.

Remember the cache isnt just for graphics.

 

[IntelUser2000]

They only make 128MB chips today. So either make a new 256MB one (with maybe 128bit interface). Or simply put 2 of those you already mass produce on 2x64bit.

Remember the cache isnt just for graphics.

You still did not answer the usability of having 200-260GB/s(double current Iris Pro) equivalent bandwidth on a device that's likely on 20% faster than Skylake GT4e. Based on current performance, Skylake GT4e is still going to be behind 750 Ti, and will likely need additional 20-30% to match it.

For CPU? Even less useful.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You still did not answer the usability of having 200-260GB/s(double current Iris Pro) equivalent bandwidth on a device that's likely on 20% faster than Skylake GT4e. Based on current performance, Skylake GT4e is still going to be behind 750 Ti, and will likely need additional 20-30% to match it.

For CPU? Even less useful.

You should read the Broadwell reviews if you think the cache doesnt matter much for the CPU part.

After that you should check here as well:
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/87722/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v4-Family#@Server

 

[dark zero]

Would you please elaborate.

Ok, AMD actually is so dead that Intel is no longer targeting them. Since they want the full monopoly on x86, they are targeting nVIDIA now and the best way to do that is to improve their chips in the GPU department to the point that makes nVIDIA not a viable way to stay there too.

For now they are targeting the Mobile department who are the easiest to beat them. Then slowly they will start to find a Way to stop growing the greens on the Desktop and eventually tranform NVIDIA onto another AMD

 

[IntelUser2000]

For now they are targeting the Mobile department who are the easiest to beat them. Then slowly they will start to find a Way to stop growing the greens on the Desktop and eventually tranform NVIDIA onto another AMD

Nvidia is pretty competitive with Intel despite not having integration advantage and being at 28nm. Against the Iris Pro Nvidia parts had PERF/WATT lead. Basically no one used the Iris Pro parts since it was more expensive and used more power than Nvidia parts.

The Iris Pro parts with eDRAM aren't even providing battery life advantage.

Don't believe the marketers and check out the reviews with ACTUAL Iris Pro laptops. Nvidia isn't going away soon.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Whenever the time comes, nVidia wont lose GPUs due to performance. But due to ROI.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Whenever the time comes, nVidia wont lose GPUs due to performance. But due to ROI.

And in the end both AMD and nVidia will be dead or Via like. And all we'll have is Intel APU's with crappy GPU performance and ridiculous monopoly guarded CPU performance improvements. Yeah right...

 

[krumme]

So what is status if i want a new portable. Perhaps ultra book at 13.3 at 1.1 kg. Is skylake ready in machines september?

Whats the anticipated benefits vs bw at that form factor?

Can i get some iris at say 15w tdp?

 

[Khato]

You still did not answer the usability of having 200-260GB/s(double current Iris Pro) equivalent bandwidth on a device that's likely on 20% faster than Skylake GT4e. Based on current performance, Skylake GT4e is still going to be behind 750 Ti, and will likely need additional 20-30% to match it.

No idea if such is the case or not, but nothing says that they actually have to use all the maximum available bandwidth. They could either halve the width of the data bus to each of the edram chips in order to simply pins and package routing or keep the width the same while lowering frequency.

 

[dark zero]

And in the end both AMD and nVidia will be dead or Via like. And all we'll have is Intel APU's with crappy GPU performance and ridiculous monopoly guarded CPU performance improvements. Yeah right...

And then a crash happens and bye bye current x86. Hello ARM. Or getting the Power PC ending.

Anyways, AMD died and Intel is going to fully assasinate them by Skylake, also they need to kill the Old Core arch and even the newer ones up to Sandy Bridge.

 

[Sweepr]

So what is status if i want a new portable. Perhaps ultra book at 13.3 at 1.1 kg. Is skylake ready in machines september?

Whats the anticipated benefits vs bw at that form factor?

Can i get some iris at say 15w tdp?

According to ASUS their first Windows 10 Skylake products will arrive in September (most likely 15W TDP Skylake-U).

This is the only one leak about mobile Skylake so far:

And yes, Skylake-U will be available with GT2 or GT3e graphics. GT3e models will bring the full Iris Pro package (including 64MB eDRAM) down to 15-28W TDP.
Given how bandwidth limited Broadwell-U GT3 is (no eDRAM) I'm expecting a meaningful performance bump compared to previous generations.

 

[Ajay]

Ok, AMD actually is so dead that Intel is no longer targeting them. Since they want the full monopoly on x86, they are targeting nVIDIA now and the best way to do that is to improve their chips in the GPU department to the point that makes nVIDIA not a viable way to stay there too.

For now they are targeting the Mobile department who are the easiest to beat them. Then slowly they will start to find a Way to stop growing the greens on the Desktop and eventually tranform NVIDIA onto another AMD

Thanks.

Whenever the time comes, nVidia wont lose GPUs due to performance. But due to ROI.

Yes. This explains NV's rants about the Fab company's longer cross-over points (when wafers become true high volume, low cost items comparable to the last process node).

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I don't think Intel really worries much about Nvidia's consumer dGPU business - it will be theirs soon enough (unless some disruptive IP alters the graphics landscape). Intel does want to grab Nvidia's Compute business (high margin, high visibility and a growth market). Intel may eventually be able to use Xeon Phi to grab the professional graphics market - even if it's only because Nvidia no longer has enough volume in dGPUs to keep their professional products competitively priced.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Some good conspiracy theories.

Every company is naturally trying to expand market share, there is no evil masterplan to kill a specific competitor all of a sudden.

 

[coercitiv]

Every company is naturally trying to expand market share, there is no evil masterplan to kill a specific competitor all of a sudden.

All of a sudden?! This is planned throughout several product cycles.

 

[krumme]

According to ASUS their first Windows 10 Skylake products will arrive in September (most likely 15W TDP Skylake-U).

This is the only one leak about mobile Skylake so far:

And yes, Skylake-U will be available with GT2 or GT3e graphics. GT3e models will bring the full Iris Pro package (including 64MB eDRAM) down to 15-28W TDP.
Given how bandwidth limited Broadwell-U GT3 is (no eDRAM) I'm expecting a meaningful performance bump compared to previous generations.

Thanx
Great news. Looking forward then. Hope for a samsung machine. I have turned into a 900 series fanboy lol.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Nobody really plans to kill their competition. If they have stuff like that on paper or in recordings, that's fuel for various antitrust thingies and suchlike. All it takes is a gubment with the stones to throw down the gauntlet and start gathering evidence.

Companies like Intel just want market share, and they don't "officially" have any plans to annihilate anyone. Let their competition go and expand markets "somewhere else", even if "somewhere else" is non-existent.

We can look at it as Intel marginalizing and (ultimately) eliminating Nvidia, and we may be effectively correct, but the reality is that Intel can't/won't make that a part of their official strategy. They're just gonna do what they gotta do to eat as much of Nvidia's lunch as possible.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Thanx
Great news. Looking forward then. Hope for a samsung machine. I have turned into a 900 series fanboy lol.

Just keep this in mind if you stick with Samsung:
http://techreport.com/news/28526/samsung-pc-updating-software-disables-windows-update

 

[mikk]

According to sources close to Intel, announcement of Skylake has been planned in two stages, part of the SKU for desktop (Skylake-S) is announced on August 7th of Germany time as the first stage, the rest of SKU (Skylake-S / H / U / Y) are scheduled to be presented at the timing close to the exhibition "IFA 2015" to be held in Germany from early September that.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/ubiq/20150625_708689.html

 

[mikk]

http://www.xfastest.com/thread-158408-1-1.html

 

[Sweepr]

I just read that too.
Gamescon will be Skylake-K's show, by launching in early August the unlocked chips will make it into the first OEM Windows 10 desktops systems.

Later, in early September we can expect many mobile design wins at IFA 2015, with first products (notebooks, convertibles, tablets, etc.) launching right after.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Abit shame with the removed cooler on K models. On the other hand, 9 out of 10 or something goes straight to the bin anyway.

 

[crashtech]

I will miss the copper cored coolers that came with the higher-end chips, I used to save them and use them on i3s just as a little value-add. The only ones that ended up being recycled were the solid aluminum ones.