Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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JM Popaleetus

Senior member
Oct 1, 2010
372
20
81
heatware.com
You guys have spent two pages arguing over numbers that differ application-to-application.

I think we all can agree that Skylake is a huge jump from Nehalem. Who cares if it's exactly 70% or 100% better?
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
The 6200U score is for the 64-bit version of Geekbench, while the 2500/5000 you quote is for 32-bit versions. 64-bit scores for 5200U are about 2800/5500.

No they are not. Plenty of 64-bit scores in the 2600/5200 range.

Highest Core i5 5200U Windows 64-bit score is 2766/5644, the first Skylake-U score is already faster than that.
 
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dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
550
83
91
No they are not. Plenty of 64-bit scores in the 2600/5200 range.

Highest Core i5 5200U Windows 64-bit score is 2766/5644, the first Skylake-U score is already faster than that.

That's not quite true. You're sorting by multi-core score. If you sort by just single-core score you'll see the highest Windows single-core score is 2860.

Didn't know it was the fastest one... No idea why either. It was a clean Windows 7 installation, but no other "special treatment". But that's great, I guess. And perhaps puts the Skylake score in a little better light.

Is there a reason we are comparing the 6200u to the 5300u? The 5300u has a 200mhz turbo clock advantage on the 5200u.

At any rate, comparing the 5200u to the 6200u, we can say that our first Skylake score has a 2% advantage single-core advantage over the best 5200u (windows) single-core score and a 9.7% advantage over the best multi-core score.

Not a bad way to start I guess. Another thing to keep in mind, the Skylake score was done with Windows 10. And I haven't found a Windows 10 score anywhere in the top marks for the 5200u.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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That's not quite true. You're sorting by multi-core score. If you sort by just single-core score you'll see the highest Windows single-core score is 2860.

It is true. I was comparing single scores, I didn't look for the best ST and MT results individually.

At any rate, most people interested in Skylake-U won't be replacing Broadwell-U notebooks but Haswell-U and earlier models.

The best Core i5 4200U Windows 64-bit scores are 2735 (ST) and 5144 (MT). The first/only Core i5 6200U (Skylake-U) score is 7.05% (ST) and 20.4% (MT) faster. Not bad at all.
 
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Brunnis

Senior member
Nov 15, 2004
506
71
91
Is there a reason we are comparing the 6200u to the 5300u? The 5300u has a 200mhz turbo clock advantage on the 5200u.

At any rate, comparing the 5200u to the 6200u, we can say that our first Skylake score has a 2% advantage single-core advantage over the best 5200u (windows) single-core score and a 9.7% advantage over the best multi-core score.

Not a bad way to start I guess. Another thing to keep in mind, the Skylake score was done with Windows 10. And I haven't found a Windows 10 score anywhere in the top marks for the 5200u.
Well, the 5300U is closer to the 6200U in base frequency (2.3GHz vs 2.4GHz), so I figured it was a decent match for an architectural comparison. No idea how well the turbo frequencies of those two match, though. Do we have that info for Skylake-U yet?

The 6200U has a 9% advantage in base frequency over the 5200U. If some or all of that remains during turbo, it would account for a decent performance lead for the Skylake part.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,556
2,139
146
K model is august 5th. Non K models is late september.


Thanks, I thought it was you that posted this in the other thread. For any who might be unfamiliar with some of the acronyms used:

PRC: People's Republic of China
APJ: Asia Pacific Japan
ASMO: Americas Sales and Marketing Organization (Intel).
EMEA: Europe, Middle East, Africa
 
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dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
550
83
91
It is true. I was comparing single scores, I didn't look for the best ST and MT results individually.

I think you just said the same thing I did. You sorted by multi-core score. I simply pointed out that better single-core scores exist, which is true. I did not mean to suggest you were being dishonest. If that is how you took my comment, I apologize.


Brunnis said:
Well, the 5300U is closer to the 6200U in base frequency (2.3GHz vs 2.4GHz), so I figured it was a decent match for an architectural comparison. No idea how well the turbo frequencies of those two match, though. Do we have that info for Skylake-U yet?

The 6200U has a 9% advantage in base frequency over the 5200U. If some or all of that remains during turbo, it would account for a decent performance lead for the Skylake

Geekbench is pretty much going to run at full turbo. We do not know the turbos of Skylake, at least I do not.

That being said, I don't really think it matters. Presumably Intel will make a 6300u and presumably it will have a similar advantage of over the 6200u that the 5300u has over the 5200u.

So, regardless of whether it is coming from an IPC increase or a clockspeed increase, we know that the replacement product for the 5200u has a minimum advantage in Geekbench of 2.3% for single-core and 9.7% for multi-core. As I said, not a bad start. Hopefully the average advantage is more for final products AND hopefully that advantage carries across the product spectrum.
 

-batab-

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2015
4
0
0
Skylake will be a good jump over Nehalem: OK.

Who cares if it's 70% IPC improvement or 100%: OK.

The real question is: since they will be priced roughly the same, will the 6700k be better than a 5820k in real life usage?

Even considering a 6700k OCed to 4.6-4.8 for daily usage and a 5820k OCed to 4-4.2 ghz. Will the higher clock and IPC, compensate for the lower memory bandwidth and the lack of 2 cores? I honestly don't think so.
I just think Skylake looks a great step forward if you look at performance per watt and iGPU performance but in terms of brute force will still be meh .

Anyway I'm really looking forward to some 6700k benchmarks because I will have to build a nice workstation in August / September and I guess the best bang for buck will be either the 6700k or the 5820k.
 

JM Popaleetus

Senior member
Oct 1, 2010
372
20
81
heatware.com
Skylake will be a good jump over Nehalem: OK.

Who cares if it's 70% IPC improvement or 100%: OK.

The real question is: since they will be priced roughly the same, will the 6700k be better than a 5820k in real life usage?

Even considering a 6700k OCed to 4.6-4.8 for daily usage and a 5820k OCed to 4-4.2 ghz. Will the higher clock and IPC, compensate for the lower memory bandwidth and the lack of 2 cores? I honestly don't think so.
I just think Skylake looks a great step forward if you look at performance per watt and iGPU performance but in terms of brute force will still be meh .

Anyway I'm really looking forward to some 6700k benchmarks because I will have to build a nice workstation in August / September and I guess the best bang for buck will be either the 6700k or the 5820k.
Expect the 6700k to beat the 5820k by ~7% in everything but benchmarks that can utilize 6 cores. Basically, the 6700k is going to win in single-threaded measurements...the 4790k already wins in those.

X99 offers more lanes, more cores, and Broadwell-E next year. This matters if you run multi-threaded applications or are a SLI/CrossFire user. Otherwise, it's pretty much a draw. Most will take the ~7%+ improvement and lower power usage of Skylake. Hell, I still might return the 5820k setup I just bought!
 
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Aug 11, 2008
10,451
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Skylake will be a good jump over Nehalem: OK.

Who cares if it's 70% IPC improvement or 100%: OK.

The real question is: since they will be priced roughly the same, will the 6700k be better than a 5820k in real life usage?

Even considering a 6700k OCed to 4.6-4.8 for daily usage and a 5820k OCed to 4-4.2 ghz. Will the higher clock and IPC, compensate for the lower memory bandwidth and the lack of 2 cores? I honestly don't think so.
I just think Skylake looks a great step forward if you look at performance per watt and iGPU performance but in terms of brute force will still be meh .

Anyway I'm really looking forward to some 6700k benchmarks because I will have to build a nice workstation in August / September and I guess the best bang for buck will be either the 6700k or the 5820k.

Obviously, it depends on the workload. One cannot expect quad skylake to compete with hex core Haswell in workloads that can use all the cores, assuming you get a decent overclocking hex core. That is why I keep saying *wait for it, sorry Shintai* we need a mainstream hex core on the leading edge node and architecture.

BTW, sort of off topic, but I didnt want to start a whole thread since Toms is kind of shady, but they have an article on overclocking the 5960x and it can apparently do consistently around 4.5ghz (on retail samples) on a decent water cooler. Too bad they did not test the 5820k, which is much more affordable. link if anyone is interested

Does seem to indicate the quads cant rely on much faster clockspeed than overclocked HW E to make up for the deficit in cores though.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
GIGABYTE's Next Gaming 3 Motherboard Pictured



Here's the first picture of GIGABYTE's upcoming Gaming 3 motherboard. We're not allowed to name the chipset, that's as well-guarded a secret as Coca Cola's recipe, so you'll just have to use your imagination. This socket LGA1151 motherboard, is designed to strike a price-features sweetspot, and supports 2-way NVIDIA SLI and AMD CrossFireX. Built in the ATX form-factor, the board draws power from a combination of 24-pin ATX and 8-pin EPS connectors, and offers a 7-phase CPU VRM. The socket is wired to four DDR4 DIMM slots, supporting up to 64 GB of dual-channel DDR4 memory, and two PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots (x8/x8, when both are populated). A third PCI-Express x16 slot (electrical gen 3.0 x4), is wired to the PCH, along with three other PCI-Express 3.0 x1 slots.

Storage connectivity includes two 32 Gb/s M.2 slots, three SATA-Express 16 Gb/s, and six SATA 6 Gb/s ports. Among the USB connectivity are two USB 3.1 ports (with at least one type-C port), at least eight USB 3.0 ports (from which four are given out via headers), and a number of USB 2.0/1.1 ports. The AMP-UP audio solution combines a 115 dBA SNR CODEC with ground-layer isolation, an OPAMP tuned for gaming and music, audio-grade capacitors, and EMI shielding. Networking is care of a Killer E2200 chip. Display outputs include D-Sub, DVI, and HDMI. GIGABYTE-exclusive Dual-UEFI BIOS is featured. Also offered is TurboOverclock+, a hardware-based overclock automation and stability testing system. This board will be a part of GIGABYTE's first wave of next-generation motherboards. It will include keys to some cool World of Tanks DLC.

www.techpowerup.com/214530/gigabytes-next-gaming-3-motherboard-pictured.html
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,120
126
GIGABYTE's Next Gaming 3 Motherboard Pictured
No estimated price? For $130 or less, that looks like a pretty sweet board. SLI / CF, (PCI-E 3.0 x8/x8), dual 32Gbit/sec M.2 slots, etc. The only downside is Killer E2200 NIC, rather than Intel LAN.

Are there Linux drivers yet for the E2200? If there are, then that board might be viable for me, otherwise, I'll stick with Intel LAN, thanks.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,169
3,864
136
That's a bit insane indeed, from such a voltage you could expect 6GHz, not 5... other shots in the link:




These are also made under extreme cooling, likely LN..

The voltage delta between 4.2 and 4.4 is even better than the theoricaly perfect one, they forgot to set the voltage at 4.4 such that this blatant contradiction wouldnt appear but i guess that the numbers had to look good...
 

BigDaveX

Senior member
Jun 12, 2014
440
216
116
Why are there still USB2/1 ports on intel chipsets?

Aren't there some motherboard-side differences that make USB3.x ports costlier to implement? If that's the case, it probably makes some sense to keep a few USB2 ports around for stuff like keyboards, mice and printers, as they'll never come close even to saturating a USB2 port, never mind the newer versions.
 
Oct 6, 2014
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Are there Linux drivers yet for the E2200? If there are, then that board might be viable for me, otherwise, I'll stick with Intel LAN, thanks.

I would prefer Intel LAN also, but you can use the Killer E2200 in Linux. I have a MSI board with the Killer LAN and it works. I use gentoo, so I just enabled the driver in the kernel; I don't know in other distros.
 

costel78

Junior Member
Sep 6, 2010
8
0
0
costel78, I use gentoo too and I have a i7-4790K. I can check the compiling times for the top offenders (chromium, firefox) so you can have an idea of the jump in performance (at least for haswell). Just give me a couple of hours to arrive home.
Yes please. I did a few days ago a full world recompile due to gcc-5.2.0. Here are my times:
* sys-devel/gcc
Tue Jul 21 15:42:35 2015 >>> sys-devel/gcc-5.2.0
merge time: 39 minutes and 27 seconds.

* www-client/chromium
Sat Jul 18 09:48:04 2015 >>> www-client/chromium-44.0.2403.89
merge time: 1 hour, 37 minutes.

* app-office/libreoffice
Sat Jul 18 06:42:14 2015 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.4.4.3
merge time: 1 hour, 39 minutes and 51 seconds.

* www-client/firefox
Sat Jul 18 03:12:39 2015 >>> www-client/firefox-39.0
merge time: 15 minutes and 45 seconds.

@VirtualLarry
Qualcom Atheros Killer NIC running just fine under Linux, I used it under Gentoo, Arch and Debian. If you asking from desktop perspective it is ok, also for moderate loaded server - referring to bandwidth usage. For high load servers it is a different story - stick to Intel no mater what.
 
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tenks

Senior member
Apr 26, 2007
287
0
0
I wish Skylake-E was dropping next month instead of Skylake...sigh

hard to want to invest in x99 now, with it being 2 gen's behind when skylake drops. bleh
 

JM Popaleetus

Senior member
Oct 1, 2010
372
20
81
heatware.com
I wish Skylake-E was dropping next month instead of Skylake...sigh

hard to want to invest in x99 now, with it being 2 gen's behind when skylake drops. bleh
HEDT has always been a generation behind.

2016 will be Broadwell-E and Kabylake/Lake (Skylake Refresh).
2017 will be Skylake-E and Cannonlake.

As I said before, HEDT offers more lanes and more cores. This matters if you run multi-threaded applications or are a SLI/CrossFire user. Otherwise, it's pretty much a draw. Most will take the ~7%+ improvement and lower power usage of the newest generation.
 
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