Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Basically the same ST score but Core m3's MT score is higher. Of course we could also post other results were Skylake-Y would probably have a comfortable lead like javascript benchmarks, 3DMark and others but then the Geekbench fanboys would whine about 'unfair comparison'. Sure, a single benchmark to rule them all in x86 vs ARM comparisons, as long as it favours Apple and the ARM camp. Apple should be using A9X in the Macbook Pro 13" instead of 28W Haswell/Broadwell, after all it should dominate Geekbench.
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
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I was kidding

I nonetheless think these Core M Intel chips are underpowered and I would never buy a device with one of them inside.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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If you are talking about the Surface Pro 4 then yes, for an extra $100 you get much better performance with Core i5 6300U. Still, Core m3-6Y30 may suffice some people's needs and if this fanless model has better battery life then it might not be a bad choice.
 
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The problem I have with the core M devices is the price. They have good battery life and performance would be acceptable if they were less expensive.

I would love to see Atom gone from the surface lineup, with Core M powering the Surface Pro 3 at 500 to 600 dollars and the surface pro 4 lineup as it is but with a more reasonable price.
 

venkman

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2007
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Because the 6700K is not available I'm considering buying a 5820K instead. Given that current-gen consoles (PS4, XB1) have 8-core CPUs multicore might become more important in the next years.

Does Broadwell-E feature any major improvements worth waiting 4 additional months?

Considering the platform changes in Skylake, is there any chance 2011-3 boards will be Skylake-E compatible?

Aren't those 8 core processors for both the GPU/CPU? Plus I think 1 or 2 cores is dedicated to the OS itself. I don't think 4 or 6 core will have any impact on gaming performance for ports based on this console generation.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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No they have 8 cpu cores, although they are quite weak compared to haswell or skylake cores. But DX12 is supposed to utilize more cpu cores than previously, so 5820K is a pretty good choice if you have the budget for it and are willing to overclock.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Would it be exiting if it were fitted in a phone perhaps?

Not really because it is kind of a clunky solution for a phone.

There were rumours that the Unicorn that is Surface Phone will be powered by a Core-M.

Or is that just a wild goose chase?

Intel doesn't have a prayer of winning a Surface Phone with a repurposed PC processor. It needs to be an SoC designed from the ground up for a phone.
 

FlanK3r

Senior member
Sep 15, 2009
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Surprised that at 1600, Skylake performs so poorly. Maybe, an error? Skylake is all about efficiency, imo. It should perform the same or better at every RAM speed level, imo. Strange indeed.

But if true, my gut feeling was right, it's a bad idea to use Skylake on DDR3 equipped mobo's.


its some bug, I can test it tomorow...
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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First Surface Pro 4 Gaming Videos (Core i5-6300U, HD Graphics 520, 8GB RAM)

Clear improvement from the Surface Pro 3. With some adjustements you can play a lot of demanding titles. Core i7-6650U should pack quite a punch with the Iris iGPU.

- Dota 2
- Counter Strike Global Offensive
- Minecraft
- League of Legends
- Starcraft 2
- Guild Wars 2
- GTA V
- Left4Dead 2
- Battlefield 4

Core m3-6Y30 Tests (Surface Pro 4 Base Model)

PCMark 8 - Home - 2377
PCMark 8 - Creative - 2976
PCMark 8 - Work - 3237







3DMark 2013
3DMark - Fire Strike - 743
3DMark - Sky Diver - 3036
3DMark - Cloud Gate - 4534







www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3qfr7q/initial_m3_benchmarks_battery_tests_to_come

Faster than a Core i5 Surface Pro 3 (15W Haswell-U) in this benchmarks. This new fanless 4.5W Core m3-6Y30 model is also considerably faster than the old Core i3 Surface Pro 3 (11.5W Haswell-Y) - CPU and iGPU.
 

Cali3350

Member
May 31, 2004
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Im REALLY curious to see how the 28Watt versions of Skylake (such as in the Macbook Pro) perform on the iGPU. 28W is enough that TDP shouldn't be a concern and they can "spread their wings" so to speak.

If the performance is as good as I hope it is, I foresee a Macbook Pro 13" Skylake in my future.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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The problem I have with the core M devices is the price. They have good battery life and performance would be acceptable if they were less expensive.

I would love to see Atom gone from the surface lineup, with Core M powering the Surface Pro 3 at 500 to 600 dollars and the surface pro 4 lineup as it is but with a more reasonable price.

Core m would be a pretty reasonable choice for the Surface non-Pro models.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Do you have a source for Skylake-U 64MB eDRAM power consumption? Can't simply extrapolate from different products.

Sure you can. It's the same eDRAM, just 64MB. It's probably the 2nd generation part with 1/4th standby power which makes it usable on low power 15W parts so it can have decent battery life. Active power though? Nothing changed. Well maybe a little.

128MB eDRAM = 3W TDP

Now DRAM is different from a CPU because capacity doesn't necessarily determine how much of the cells are active. Whatever is being used is active. If we take Intel at face value that 32MB is enough, both 128MB and 64MB would use same power. TDP isn't max power, but pretty much max power that it can sustain for a long period.

Even at 1.5W, which is literally half of 3W, that's still less favorable to a 15W part than a 3W part is to a 47W one. And the SoC is likely TDP constrained far more than 47W one is. There's no logical reason to expect that we'd get more from eDRAM on a 15W part than a 47W part.

Also 60% faster than the top HD Graphics 520 score is nothing to cough at given that these are the very first submissions so far.

Iris Pro's eDRAM can get 60% too. But average is only 40%. Based on the 48 EUs being constrained by TDP + eDRAM taking up more TDP relative to the SoC if anything it'll be less, not more. Now I am not saying that's how it'll be, but only products with extensive testing will tell the truth, not single, synthetic, mobile-focused bench.

We all know those parts were targeted at Apple, PC OEMs were better served by regular Haswell/Broadwell + dGPUs.

Yes, and now you can add one more vendor, which is Microsoft.

And power consumption is much more critical here. If Intel can deliver anywhere close to Skylake-U GT2 + Geforce GT940M gaming performance with Skylake-U GT3e then they will have a very interesting product in their hands.

Please get back to me if Intel has changed this graph significantly. Broadwell is ~20% faster than Haswell and Skylake is ~20% faster than Broadwell. Geforce had 2-3x lead.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7834/NVIDIA-GeForce-800M-Slides (26).jpg

I know its an Nvidia marketing slide but something that's spot-on. Iris Pro 5200 parts were uncompetitive in perf/watt, perf/$ and Iris Pro 6200 changed nada. Benchmarks of Iris Pro 6200 showed that Geforce GTX 740 performed equal/better while using less power, while GTX 750 GDDR5 shows far better performance with lower power in one game and 8W higher in another.

http://pclab.pl/art64766-8.html

In some games, the Iris Pro 6200 falls behind GTX 740. The GTX 750 GDDR5 is sometimes 2x the performance.
 
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khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Core m3-6Y30 Tests (Surface Pro 4 Base Model)

PCMark 8 - Home - 2377
PCMark 8 - Creative - 2976
PCMark 8 - Work - 3237
3DMark 2013
3DMark - Fire Strike - 743
3DMark - Sky Diver - 3036
3DMark - Cloud Gate - 4534
www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3qfr7q/initial_m3_benchmarks_battery_tests_to_come

Faster than a Core i5 Surface Pro 3 (15W Haswell-U) in this benchmarks. This new fanless 4.5W Core m3-6Y30 model is also considerably faster than the old Core i3 Surface Pro 3 (11.5W Haswell-Y) - CPU and iGPU.

Impressive results, this level of performance should be sufficient for a lot of people (including me). Not sure I would buy the SP4 though, more likely the Lenovo Miix 700 or HP Spectre x2, assuming their performance with m3 is similar to the SP4.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Sure you can. It's the same eDRAM, just 64MB

Is it (same as Haswell/Broadwell)? Source, or is it an assumption?


Iris Pro's eDRAM can get 60% too. But average is only 40%. Based on the 48 EUs being constrained by TDP + eDRAM taking up more TDP relative to the SoC if anything it'll be less, not more. Now I am not saying that's how it'll be, but only products with extensive testing will tell the truth, not single, synthetic, mobile-focused bench.

Iris Pro HD6200 got 55% better than the best HD5500 score. Iris Pro can deliver almost double the framerates in some popular titles, so yes, I think Skylake-U GT3e will provide more than 30-40% better gaming performance, even for 15W parts (while 28W parts will smoke GT2).

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2015-4K-iMac.004-980x720.png
https://gfxbench.com/device.jsp?D=I...&testgroup=graphics&benchmark=gfx31&var=score

Please get back to me if Intel has changed this graph significantly. Broadwell is ~20% faster than Haswell and Skylake is ~20% faster than Broadwell. Geforce had 2-3x lead.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7834/NVIDIA-GeForce-800M-Slides (26).jpg

I know its an Nvidia marketing slide but something that's spot-on.

Not only an NVIDIA marketing slide but also talks about a 2-generation old Iris Pro chip. Sorry but no, you can't extrapolate how mobile 14nm Iris parts would fare against NVIDIA dGPUs in real world based on that. And no matter how you spin it what I said still stands, OEMs won't be able to fit a dGPU in some of the devices we will be able to find 15W Skylake-U with Iris. That alone makes this product interesting for a specific public.

Iris Pro 5200 parts were uncompetitive in perf/watt, perf/$ and Iris Pro 6200 changed nada. Benchmarks of Iris Pro 6200 showed that Geforce GTX 740 performed equal/better while using less power

http://pclab.pl/art64766-8.html

Except your own link proves you wrong. Low-end Geforce GT740 is faster (by not much in most titles) while using a bit more power than the Core i5 model, which means that at the same power level they are not providing much better perf/watt. Geforce GTX750 is a lot faster but it's using an extra 20W in Far Cry 4. Far from the marketing slide claims if that's what you were trying to prove.











And that's Broadwell on the desktop, so no, I don't believe a low-end bottom of the barrel dGPU is going to provide much better perf/watt than Skylake-U GT3e 15W/28W. And don't move the goalposts, I'm not advocating Iris Pro desktop usage.
 
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Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
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Except your own link proves you wrong. Low-end Geforce GT740 is faster (by not much in most titles) while using a bit more power than the Core i5 model, which means that at the same power level they are not providing much better perf/watt. Geforce GTX750 is a lot faster but it's using an extra 20W in Far Cry 4. Far from the marketing slide claims if that's what you were trying to prove.






And that's Broadwell on the desktop, so no, I don't believe a low-end bottom of the barrel dGPU is going to provide much better perf/watt than Skylake-U GT3e 15W/28W. And don't move the goalposts, I'm not advocating Iris Pro desktop usage.

Look at it again.
4% more power for 21% more performance on memory bottlenecked 740. Compare to 750 and you get 240% more perf for 10% more power.

It is hard to compare one to another because there is a fixed amount of power going to other components. Perf/watt for the whole system and perf/watt for a single part are quite different because of it.
Also, more fps - more load on CPU etc... You would need to measure power at silicon level
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Look at it again.
4% more power for 21% more performance on memory bottlenecked 740. Compare to 750 and you get 240% more perf for 10% more power.

System power.

It is hard to compare one to another because there is a fixed amount of power going to other components. Perf/watt for the whole system and perf/watt for a single part are quite different because of it.

Exactly.
But, again, this discussion is not about 65W Broadwell Iris Pro vs desktop dGPUs. I'm talking 15W Skylake Iris vs 15W Skylake non-Iris + low-end/low-power dGPU with all of its limitations/bottlenecks. Surface Pro like devices for example draw a lot of attention from a certain public because of its form factor and thin/light profile. That's the place where a fast iGPU might make more sense than a (crap) dGPU. Surface Book's dGPU is faster than a Geforce GT940M and it was up to ~69% faster than Surface Pro 4 with HD Graphics 520 running Dota 2. I believe Iris Graphics 540 might not be far from regular Geforce GT940M level of gaming performance given proper cooling which would be pretty impressive for an U series chip.

Can we stop talking about desktop Iris Pro now? I get that some people love to pick on Broadwell-K because it is expensive if you only care about the graphics performance it provides, despite having the fastest iGPU. It's a stellar chip to pair dGPUs with but then again the pricing is a problem, way too close to Skylake-S and Haswell-E Core i7s. I do think Skylake Iris Pro might be a better choice than Kabylake-S next-year though.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if DX12 Multi-Adapter will be possible with Intel iGPUs + NVIDIA/AMD dGPUs?
 
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Be1n

Member
May 13, 2013
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Limit for Haswell was ~1.7 GB. As far as I know there is no limit since Gen8.

I think there is some confusion about dedicated memory and dynamic memory usage here. Dedicated memory (set in bios) is irrelevant for 99.9% of applications. Dynamic memory is what matters.

How much memory does it take to run a 1440p monitor?

Thanks.
 

Cali3350

Member
May 31, 2004
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Are there any GT3e benchmarks out yet (desktop or notebook)? I have been googling and have been unable to find anything other than HD530.
 
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