Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Rngwn]

The price has just appeared in the ARK site for consumer parts (i.e. non-xeon). The ones in bold are different from the recommended price sheet.

http://ark.intel.com/th/products/93341/Intel-Core-i7-6770HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/th/products/93340/Intel-Core-i7-6870HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/th/products/93335/Intel-Core-i5-6350HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_20-GHz

Core i7-6870HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.70 GHz, 14nm) - $434
Core i7-6770HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.60 GHz, 14nm) - $434
Core i5-6350HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 2.30 GHz, 14nm) - $306

This is the price as appeared in the recommended list earlier by Sweepr:

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/INTC/1403717016x0x870934/61503265-7C29-4F19-AD67-3169C00EF9BC/Jan_24_16_Recommended_Customer_Price_Lists.pdf

Core i7-6970HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Core i7-6870HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.70 GHz, 14nm) - $434
Core i7-6770HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.60 GHz, 14nm) - $378
Core i5-6350HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 2.30 GHz, 14nm) - $306
[/url]

So, the 6770HQ is priced the same as 6870HQ and being $56 more expensive. Not completely unexpected.

 

[Rngwn]

Dell XPS 13 9350 w/ i7-6560U&Iris 540 Review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-9350-i7-6560U-QHD-Ultrabook-Review.159487.0.html

3DMark Firestrike: 1114
CB11.5 Multi: 3.45 pts
CB11.5 Single: 1.52 pts
CB11.5 OGL: 41.07 fps
CB15 OGL: 46.99 fps

Quite a fair amount inferior than SP4 i7, and look at the throttling:

This thing throttled thermally for real. Looks like once again, microsoft is the only OEM who knows how to deal with thermals.

 

[coercitiv]

This thing throttled thermally for real. Looks like once again, microsoft is the only OEM who knows how to deal with thermals.

Most OEMs are so obsessed with weight they end up making really poor engineering decisions: the heat sinks they use are simply too small. SP4 likely has 2x or even more heat sink surface, and it shows.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Surface Pro 4 i7 with Iris 540 is much closer once you taken into account power throttling mere 5 mins later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3tq7st/surface_pro_4_i7_vs_i5_intel_540_graphics_vs/?

30% faster than HD 520. Which means its maybe 5-10% better than XPS 13 which is nothing. Not just that, people report going from smooth running game to sometimes a throttling mess when the Power Limit kicks in. Perhaps in the next generation they should take away Turbo Boost 2.0 so at least you get consistent performance, rather than a really fast running game that only lasts 5 mins.

Notebookcheck site is just not documenting power throttling happening.

On the Iris Pro 5200, eDRAM alone allowed an average of 40% gain. The fact that its less on the Iris 540 despite also having twice the EUs suggest the gains are much reduced because the eDRAM takes up significant chunk of TDP away from CPU/GPU(3W).

 

[Timur Born]

Isn't Throttlestop maybe able to raise the power limit bar? My bootcamped 2011 Macbook Pro is limited to 45 watts package power limit, which I can increase to 48 watts (this CPU's maximum) via TS.

 

[Sweepr]

Surface Pro 4 i7 with Iris 540 is much closer once you taken into account power throttling mere 5 mins later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3tq7st/surface_pro_4_i7_vs_i5_intel_540_graphics_vs/?

30% faster than HD 520.

30% after thermal throttling is not bad at all, even with eDRAM having more EUs at a lower clock is the more efficient solution. Microsoft adjusts PL1 based on the temperature of the back of the device, and it has been reported that undervolting and/or cooling the area of the sensor brings the performance closer what it achieves at PL1 (>60% faster than HD 520 in best case scenario).

The price has just appeared in the ARK site for consumer parts (i.e. non-xeon). The ones in bold are different from the recommended price sheet.

Thanks! Curious to see the price of Core i5-6350HQ, the entry-level model with Iris Pro 580.



Price Check: Price Gap Between DDR3 and DDR4 Memory Almost Gone

Around a year ago DRAM manufacturers ended up pinning a lot of their hopes on DDR4 as a way to improve their profit margins. In the cutthroat and highly cyclical DRAM industry, the launch of DDR4-capable systems was seen as encouraging new sales while also serving as an opportunity to sell DRAM with higher margins, owing to the at the time substantial price premium over DDR3. Today however, the difference between prices of DDR3 and DDR4 memory is almost negligible and soon it will likely disappear entirely. What is even more important is that DRAM in general is getting cheaper, which is good for the end-user, but is not necessarily good for companies like Micron, Samsung and SK Hynix.

www.anandtech.com/show/10058/price-check-price-gap-between-ddr3-and-ddr4-memory-almost-gone

 

[NTMBK]

Most OEMs are so obsessed with weight they end up making really poor engineering decisions: the heat sinks they use are simply too small. SP4 likely has 2x or even more heat sink surface, and it shows.

I wish someone would make a properly gaming oriented Windows tablet, like the Shield tablet was for Android. They took their cooling seriously, and shoved a great big sheet of metal inside to act as a heatsink:

 

[frozentundra123456]

Dell XPS 13 9350 w/ i7-6560U&Iris 540 Review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-9350-i7-6560U-QHD-Ultrabook-Review.159487.0.html

3DMark Firestrike: 1114
CB11.5 Multi: 3.45 pts
CB11.5 Single: 1.52 pts
CB11.5 OGL: 41.07 fps
CB15 OGL: 46.99 fps

Quite a fair amount inferior than SP4 i7, and look at the throttling:

This thing throttled thermally for real. Looks like once again, microsoft is the only OEM who knows how to deal with thermals.

That is disappointing. I thought Dell usually did a very good job in this type product. One still has to make a lot of sacrifices for "thin and light" I guess. OTOH, all the stress test loads are pretty unrealistic for the normal use of an ultrabook, but too bad it would probably throttle in gaming.

The real problem with these ultrabooks is still the price. One could live with the throttling and moderate performance if they were not so expensive. But for the same price (less actually) I got my grandson an asus gaming laptop with a full on quad i7 and a 960M. He is in college and granted it is bigger and heavier than an ultrabook, but still not that bad, and much lighter than gaming laptops few years ago. He does carry it around on campus and back and forth to home on weekends and doesnt complain about the weight.

 

[Sweepr]

This might interest the low-end crowd, some results from Skylake-based Celeron G3900 and Pentium G4500T (35W):

- Celeron G3900 (2C/2T @ 2.8GHz, 2MB L3):

Cinebench R15
Single-thread: 114 points
Multi-thread: 221 points

PassMark:
Single-thread: 1618 points
Multi-thread: 3183 points

- Pentium G4500T (2C/2T @ 3GHz, 3MB L3)

Cinebench R11.5
Single-thread: 1.19 points
Multi-thread: 2.82 points

Cinebench R15
Single-thread: 118 points
Multi-thread: 245 points

www.notebookcheck.com/Intel-Pentium-G4500T-Desktop-Prozessor-Benchmarks-und-Specs.160141.0.html


3GHz 2C/2T Skylake-S (3MB L3) basically matches my 2.8-3.0GHz 2C/4T Ivy Bridge ULV (4MB L3) @ Cinebench 11.5. The IPC improvement from three generations is enough to make up for the lack of HT and extra cache here. Compared to other Skylake CPUs, Core i3-6100U almost matches Pentium G4500T's MT score, which means you need ~30% higher-clocks to compensate for the lack of HT in this benchmark.

Some older Celeron/Pentium results:

http://blog.sternenbude.de/2016/02/20/intel-celeron-g3900-test-benchmark-msi-h110m-eco-idle

 

[IntelUser2000]

30% after thermal throttling is not bad at all,

The real problem with these ultrabooks is still the price. One could live with the throttling and moderate performance if they were not so expensive.

That's the issue. 30% for the price increase is not worth it. If you live in the US its what, $1500 for the cheapest Iris 540 system? And it's basically $2000 everywhere else because of the high US dollar.

30% faster CPU would have been a lot better, but 30% on GPU is very small. Iris 540 level of performance is acceptable on a Core i3 system. If you ignore the part that its the "best in category" Iris 540 as a 3D part still sucks a lot.

Say we accept the premise that computer advancement is close to its limits and Iris 540 is really the best we can get. Still, the positioning sucks. It should have been available on a Core i3 part, and priced appropriately. I am talking $200 Core i3 6100i/w Iris Pro 580(let's call i for Iris) and $999 Core i5 6300i Surface Pro 4/w Iris 540.

 

[jpiniero]

This might interest the low-end crowd, some results from Skylake-based Celeron G3900 and Pentium G4500T (35W):

- Celeron G3900 (2C/2T @ 2.8GHz, 2MB L3):

Cinebench R15
Single-thread: 114 points
Multi-thread: 221 points

PassMark:
Single-thread: 1618 points
Multi-thread: 3183 points

- Pentium G4500T (2C/2T @ 3GHz, 3MB L3)

Cinebench R11.5
Single-thread: 1.19 points
Multi-thread: 2.82 points

Cinebench R15
Single-thread: 118 points
Multi-thread: 245 points
http://blog.sternenbude.de/2016/02/20/intel-celeron-g3900-test-benchmark-msi-h110m-eco-idle

That's not bad at all. Almost too good, esp for 35W... that must be why it's so hard to find an OEM system with it. It's all either Bay Trail Celeron/Pentium or Core.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, you are sort of putting words in my mouth. I would not say the chip "sucks". But yes, the prices are too high. It just depends on how much you value mobility. Obviously if one is buying a laptop they value mobility, but I think even most laptop buyers just move their laptops from room to room or desk to desk, or maybe take it home from work or on vacation occasionally. Just a conventional laptop is "mobile" enough for this, and probably is even plugged in most of the time.

 

[kaesden]

I recently built a skylake i5 6600k system for a friend, did some mild overclocking for him and its running great @ 4.5ghz 1.2 volts.

I was also able to have it boot and start benchmarks at up to 4.9ghz at 1.25 volts but it crashed halfway through. 4.8 they completed without issue. I backed it down to 4.5 to ensure stability because he won't want to mess with it once its at his place, and so far its rock solid. Is it just me or does this seem to be a really high OC on a rather low voltage? Most results i've seen have required 1.35-1.40 or even 1.45 to get up to 4.8, did I get a really good chip or am I remember what i've read incorrectly?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I recently built a skylake i5 6600k system for a friend, did some mild overclocking for him and its running great @ 4.5ghz 1.2 volts.

I was also able to have it boot and start benchmarks at up to 4.9ghz at 1.25 volts but it crashed halfway through. 4.8 they completed without issue. I backed it down to 4.5 to ensure stability because he won't want to mess with it once its at his place, and so far its rock solid. Is it just me or does this seem to be a really high OC on a rather low voltage? Most results i've seen have required 1.35-1.40 or even 1.45 to get up to 4.8, did I get a really good chip or am I remember what i've read incorrectly?

Did you even stress-test your OC at all? Or just run benchmarks? You should really stress-test it to make sure it's stable.

 

[kaesden]

Did you even stress-test your OC at all? Or just run benchmarks? You should really stress-test it to make sure it's stable.

Not as long as I would have liked, but i did run prime95 for a couple hours without any issues.

 

[Shivansps]

Surface Pro 4 i7 with Iris 540 is much closer once you taken into account power throttling mere 5 mins later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3tq7st/surface_pro_4_i7_vs_i5_intel_540_graphics_vs/?

30% faster than HD 520. Which means its maybe 5-10% better than XPS 13 which is nothing. Not just that, people report going from smooth running game to sometimes a throttling mess when the Power Limit kicks in. Perhaps in the next generation they should take away Turbo Boost 2.0 so at least you get consistent performance, rather than a really fast running game that only lasts 5 mins.

Notebookcheck site is just not documenting power throttling happening.

On the Iris Pro 5200, eDRAM alone allowed an average of 40% gain. The fact that its less on the Iris 540 despite also having twice the EUs suggest the gains are much reduced because the eDRAM takes up significant chunk of TDP away from CPU/GPU(3W).

The problem is that Surface book IS a big tablet, 15W TDP is too much for a tablet, i have no doubt its gona be using cTDP down to 10W, and the cooling system probably its not able to sustain that either.

 

[Accord99]

This thing throttled thermally for real. Looks like once again, microsoft is the only OEM who knows how to deal with thermals.

It's not thermally limited as the reported temperatures are still 20C from the limit; it's TDP limited as the package power is 15W. The Dell cooling system could probably handle 20W or possibly even 28W.

The SP4's cooling is definitely impressive but looking at the notebookcheck review, Microsoft has tweaked their CPUs to allow them to run at higher TDPs while Dell is set strictly to spec.

 

[Rngwn]

It's not thermally limited as the reported temperatures are still 20C from the limit; it's TDP limited as the package power is 15W. The Dell cooling system could probably handle 20W or possibly even 28W.

The SP4's cooling is definitely impressive but looking at the notebookcheck review, Microsoft has tweaked their CPUs to allow them to run at higher TDPs while Dell is set strictly to spec.

Had another look in my post and I just found out I linked to the wrong pic. See a bunch of red numbers here, they indicate a real thermal throttling.

 

[Shivansps]

Yup, it just cant handle a 15W tdp chip, its way too much, its not gona be able to keep both CPU and IGP running, also, 15W is not enoght to keep both turbos running either... one its gona be inmidiatelly disabled, likely the cpu one.

Test with the CPU only and them with GPU only to see what happen.

 

[ZGR]

Is this surprising? Can it not maintain IGP boost with Throttlestop keeping the cores at 1.2 GHz?

 

[Cali3350]

Interested in seeing a very large rundown on the Vaio Z Flip. Im hoping the 28Watt they put in there is really put to good use.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Just a conventional laptop is "mobile" enough for this, and probably is even plugged in most of the time.

There's a good chance that lot of the people aren't being mobile with it because.... its not really mobile. I use my Dell XPS 12 on battery quite often. What if there was a laptop with Geforce 980M + Core i7 6700HQ with 10 hour average non gaming battery life, 3 pound weight and 17mm thickness?

Case in point. A friend liked to play games and wanted to try newer games on his laptop. He found out that it was nowhere near being playable, and stopped being a gamer altogether. If he had a more performant laptop, it would have been an enabler to continue being a gamer. Sometimes, when you lose attention of a person, its hard to get it back.

But Intel's focus is on the super high priced chips now. The chip itself might not suck, but ALL the manufacturers are positioning "Iris" to a $1500+ part. Why not a $700 one? In that way, the Iris based U chips suck. Who cares if Iris has only a $50 premium to a non-Iris one? No one uses them like that! Do I see a Core i5 Iris option on a system? Nope. Zero. Nada. All that for less battery life and 30% faster? No thanks!

I value mobility too, not an outrageously expensive(for its performance) one. Quoting from Anandtech's reviews: "There isn't a bad product, only bad pricing".

Interested in seeing a very large rundown on the Vaio Z Flip. Im hoping the 28Watt they put in there is really put to good use.

Yes, I have read some reviews and indeed it does better. It is another 30% faster than the 15W version. Also, the CPU is faster too. 3.8 in Cinebench R11.5 for a dual core is pretty good. Of course it starts at $1600 or more.

 

[Sweepr]

Intel Kaby Lake to compete against AMD Zen at end of 2016

Intel's Kaby Lake-series processors, which are scheduled to launch in the third quarter, but will not begin volume production until the end of 2016, while AMD is set to release its Zen architecture-based processors at the end of the fourth quarter. The two CPU products families are expected to enter fierce competition by the end of the year, according to sources from the upstream supply chain.

Intel originally planned to have the 10nm Cannon Lake succeed its 14nm Skylake architecture in mid-2016, but has changed its plan to push the 14nm Kaby Lake as the successor, allowing its 10nm process more time to increase yield rates.

Intel's Kaby Lake-series will begin with the U-series which will start small volume production in mid-June, with mass production to start in November or December. The corresponding chipsets including the Z270 and H270-series will be announced in October at the earliest.

www.digitimes.com/news/a20160302PD204.html


Confusing article.
- Kabylake-U production starts in June, launch in Q3
- Mass/volume production of Kabylake chips (including desktop Kabylake-S?) @ November/December
- Competes against Summit Ridge at end of 2016, so desktop launch in 2016 still in the cards?
- Z270 / H270 announcement in October


I'm also adding this to the OP, Intel naming/lineup guide for noobs.

ArsTechnica: Pentium? Core i5? Core i7? Making sense of Intel’s convoluted CPU lineup
It defies simple explanation, but here's how to know what you're getting

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...-making-sense-of-intels-convoluted-cpu-lineup

 

[frozentundra123456]

So is this a further delay of KL, or just what was expected? And that means 2018 for volume availability of Cannonlake?

 

[ShintaiDK]

The release seems to mimmick Skylake in terms of release steps. So it is the same Q3 launch.