Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
If the price of the unlocked Core i3 is very close to Core i5 7400/7500 then its a no go for a 2017 Gaming system.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,993
744
126
If the price of the unlocked Core i3 is very close to Core i5 7400/7500 then its a no go for a 2017 Gaming system.
4,2Ghz is still going to beat 3Ghz in a lot of scenarios.
I know a lot of people only concentrate on crappy console ported GPU tech demos they call games but ~30% higher single core speed ,and enough threads, is still going to be well worth it for a lot of people.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136

Because no matter how high you clock the Dual Core + HT, it will stutter in latest games. So if the price is very close to a locked Quad Core then better get the Quad Core.
Just ask all those who bought the Unlocked Dual Core Pentium two years ago, they can hardly use it for any of the latest games today.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,993
744
126
Because no matter how high you clock the Dual Core + HT, it will stutter in latest games.
Latest crap ports stutter on highly oc i5s as well...
Or have textures that take forever to load like in doom.
Crappy coding is no argument for how good or not a cpu is.
That is if you have them combined with the fastest monster GPUs money can buy,in normal scenarios where the GPU will be the bottleneck stutter is a non issue.
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,334
677
126
Because no matter how high you clock the Dual Core + HT, it will stutter in latest games. So if the price is very close to a locked Quad Core then better get the Quad Core.
Just ask all those who bought the Unlocked Dual Core Pentium two years ago, they can hardly use it for any of the latest games today.

Umm, quite simply, no.

See posts towards the end of the thread - I'm running an I3 6100 (dual core with HT) over clocked that runs BF1 smooth as butter at 1080p on ultra settings - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/bf1-1080p-60hz-2600k-4-5ghz-8gb-ram-gtx-960-2gb.2490825/
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
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Because no matter how high you clock the Dual Core + HT, it will stutter in latest games. So if the price is very close to a locked Quad Core then better get the Quad Core.
Just ask all those who bought the Unlocked Dual Core Pentium two years ago, they can hardly use it for any of the latest games today.

Categorically false. One of my systems has an i3 6320 and a GTX 1060 and games run as smoothly as silk @ 1080p.

Those i3 chips are great for gaming, HT makes the difference compared to the Pentiums which, hooray, will get HT soon enough.
 
Reactions: Phynaz

LOL_Wut_Axel

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2011
4,310
8
81
All this new stuff since Sandy Bridge seems underwhelming. I used to have a rig with a Haswell Core i7-4790K, 16GB of DDR3-2400, and a Radeon R9 390 which I had to sell when I moved from Puerto Rico to Texas and now looking at budget options I got the HP workstation in my sig used and put in the RX 470 and SSD. In day to day use it feels exactly the same speed and in games I would say it's around 10% or so slower and it was $400 for everything.
 

Justinbaileyman

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2013
1,980
249
106
Categorically false. One of my systems has an i3 6320 and a GTX 1060 and games run as smoothly as silk @ 1080p.

Those i3 chips are great for gaming, HT makes the difference compared to the Pentiums which, hooray, will get HT soon enough.

Yeah I also have an i3, it is the i3 6300 and a GTX 960 4gb SC and it doesn't stutter in any games I have ever played and I have quite a few just released titles.Even the Batman Arkham Knight game that eveyone said needed a i7 5820k or higher to play, plays great even on 4k on my little i3.Maybe you just need to update your drivers or try an SSD or something?
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
639
178
116
Latest crap ports stutter on highly oc i5s as well...
Or have textures that take forever to load like in doom.
Crappy coding is no argument for how good or not a cpu is.
That is if you have them combined with the fastest monster GPUs money can buy,in normal scenarios where the GPU will be the bottleneck stutter is a non issue.

Doom loads very quickly with a decent SSD. What were you using to load it? An old HDD?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
Because no matter how high you clock the Dual Core + HT, it will stutter in latest games. So if the price is very close to a locked Quad Core then better get the Quad Core.
Just ask all those who bought the Unlocked Dual Core Pentium two years ago, they can hardly use it for any of the latest games today.

Whoa a second. I thought that the reported issues with the 2C/2T Pentiums, was the lack of thread capability, and that the i3 chips, being 2C/4T didn't have the same issues.

The issue is really thread load / contention, by a game that depends on 100% service time, and the NT scheduler, that basically guarantees threads CPU time, and if they don't get it (because the game is running), every few seconds it starves the game of CPU time to let these "background" threads run.

While that keeps your OS from getting screwed up because of services not getting their background CPU time in a regular manner, it also affects real-time processes like games.

You may be able to mitigate this problem by changing the game's priorities to "Real-Time" levels, but then if you ever ALT+TAB out, you may never be able to do anything else, or it may be ridiculously slowed down, because the game is still chewing up most of the CPU time.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
136
Whoa a second. I thought that the reported issues with the 2C/2T Pentiums, was the lack of thread capability, and that the i3 chips, being 2C/4T didn't have the same issues.
The issue is present in all mainstream CPUs, but it is painfully obvious in 2C/2T Pentiums. However, you can see the same argumentation being made against 4C/4T i5, even if the frame drops are barely noticeable relative to i7 SKUs. (different thresholds, different perception)

My guess is AtenRa is betting on modern/future games being designed to use more and more threads, thus making 2C/4T of today the 2C/2T of yesterday in terms of cores / game threads ratio. It is a point of view I do not share, but has it's merits both in theory and some benchmarks, and thus requires careful observation as we get more DX12/Vulkan titles. (my bet is 4C/4T will remain the target for AAA developers as long as the i5 does not evolve into something else - 6C/6T or 4C/8T).

One thing is certain though - as long as you have a bit more threads available (4 vs. 2), any increase in frequency will benefit gaming a lot. We can see this with the 6600k benchmarks, where frame rate dips alleviate or disappear once clock rates pass a certain threshold (game dependent ofc.)
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Guys, fps is not the only thing to consider but frametimes is of extreme importance in the latest games especially in FPS Multiplayers. The Core i3 may produce 60fps but it ill have horrendous frametimes especially if you raise your fps count above 60.

I will wait and see how much this unlocked Core i3 will cost upon release, when it will be released and we can then have a full fps/frametime analysis in latest games and decide if it is good or not.
But i will say this again, if the price difference between a Core i5 is very small then i will recommend (for gaming) the Quad Core every time no matter how high the Core i3 will OC.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
And the i3,if it's a real k model, will probably have turbo as well...

G3258 had no turbo, yet was unlocked. It also does not have the K designation at all. It's just called G3258.

There doesn't seem to be any Core or i3 anniversary date coming up.

Well, we had 6100 at 3.7, 6300 at 3.8, and 6320 at 3.9.

So maybe we'd have 7100 at 3.9, 7300 at 4.0 and 7320 at 4.1?

6700K at 4.0 only has 4.2 as a turbo clock.

I suppose we should have better turbo clocks with KL, though.

I wouldn't mind a 4.0 unlocked i3 with turbo, though.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
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TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,993
744
126
Doom loads very quickly with a decent SSD. What were you using to load it? An old HDD?
Search the interwebz...plenty of people with top end systems and ssds complaining about slow texture loading.
The issue is really thread load / contention, by a game that depends on 100% service time, and the NT scheduler, that basically guarantees threads CPU time, and if they don't get it (because the game is running), every few seconds it starves the game of CPU time to let these "background" threads run.
This is a big part of the problem,but think about it,both the main thread and the "background" threads come from the same application,the game itself.
Now even if somebody had no idea about coding what would be the easiest way to fix this problem?
Let me tell you,slowing down the main thread so that the background ones can finish their jobs before the mainthread needs the data they're providing.
And sure enough you can do this by either limiting fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTk7J5qdcg
or directly telling the main thread(s) to take it a bit slower so that the rest of the threads can keep up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUK3ebMFeSo
Notice that there is practically no loss in FPS.
My guess is AtenRa is betting on modern/future games being designed to use more and more threads, thus making 2C/4T of today the 2C/2T of yesterday in terms of cores / game threads ratio. It is a point of view I do not share, but has it's merits both in theory and some benchmarks, and thus requires careful observation as we get more DX12/Vulkan titles.
Look above,number of threads has nothing to do with it,it might make a game run faster on more cores but that wasn't the point,games not being able to run on dualcores or having bad stutter is a matter of proper coding/porting which is a thing of the past sadly.
Also all games are developed for the consoles, 6 cores maximum,and the new consoles are pretty sure to use the new zen 4c/8t CPUs at very low clocks so if anything (foreseeable- ) future games will be made for less or equal amount of threads as today's games.
Guys, fps is not the only thing to consider but frametimes is of extreme importance in the latest games especially in FPS Multiplayers. The Core i3 may produce 60fps but it ill have horrendous frametimes especially if you raise your fps count above 60.
CPU frametimes are completely useless since the GPU is the one that sends frames to the monitor.
Even GPU frametimes are not that important since there is no monitor with zero lag,you either send the frames as fast as possible and get tearing anyway no matter how constant the frames are or you use some sort of sync which makes frametimes even more irrelevant.
G3258 had no turbo, yet was unlocked. It also does not have the K designation at all. It's just called G3258.
That's what I'm saying,if it is a real K model with a K at the end it probably will have turbo.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
That's what I'm saying,if it is a real K model with a K at the end it probably will have turbo.
Why? Turbo does not actually relate to unlocked multiplier, you know.
Guys, fps is not the only thing to consider but frametimes is of extreme importance in the latest games especially in FPS Multiplayers. The Core i3 may produce 60fps but it ill have horrendous frametimes especially if you raise your fps count above 60.
Yep, but i3 produces minimums above 50 just fine last time i checked, so what is your point?
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,993
744
126
Why? Turbo does not actually relate to unlocked multiplier, you know.
Was there ever a K model without turbo?
I'm just saying that if its k it's probably going to have turbo,if it's just unlocked but not a k part then yes it probably won't have turbo.
 

Justinbaileyman

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2013
1,980
249
106
I'd love to pick one of those i3 K models up just to have one to mess around with.Maybe even run it at crazy high overclocks with lots of juice if they are cheap enough.Hoping for anything under $200 cause then I wont feel so bad if the chip burns up,not that I would be trying to kill it but want to see how far I could push it for 24/7 use.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
Was there ever a K model without turbo?
I'm just saying that if its k it's probably going to have turbo,if it's just unlocked but not a k part then yes it probably won't have turbo.
There was never a K model of a line-up that does not have Turbo, you are mixing apples and oranges.
1. What Mantle is doing there.

2. Since this graph is entirely useless because it is too freaking squeezed considering it has a freaking hour worth of frametimes in like 500 pixels, i will go with statistics and get that both produce perfectly playable experience without severe stuttering from what statistics look like.
 
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