Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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If I'm reading that right, why would they do that? Only compatible with KL-X? I was thinking KL-X only made the most sense as a stepping stone purchase to hedt? :/
Kaby Lake-X makes the most sense as a very good overclocker: better bins, more TDP, no iGPU taking up power, etc. No need to pay for all the Skylake-X features on a motherboard that the Kaby Lake processor cannot use.
 
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StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Kaby Lake-X makes the most sense as a very good overclocker: better bins, more TDP, no iGPU taking up power, etc.
It makes little sense. The only difference to the K SKUs of Kaby Lake-S is the higher factory OC of Kaby Lake-X.

Edit: And what is a "very good overclocker" supposed to be? One on which a 5 GHz overclock results in 10 % performance loss vs. factory clocks?

No need to pay for all the Skylake-X features on a motherboard that the Kaby Lake processor cannot use.
No need to pay for a low-volume Kaby Lake-K-only X299 board if any Z270 board does the same job.
 
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TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
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So Coffee Lake prices leaks next? if these things come out September that'd be great (SKL-X production started a week before they hit the shelves, I read) and with CFL beginning production between 21 August and 9 (?) October it's looking like a possibility we may be able to get them early to mod September?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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It makes little sense. The only difference to the K SKUs of Kaby Lake-S is the higher factory OC of Kaby Lake-X.

Edit: And what is a "very good overclocker" supposed to be? One on which a 5 GHz overclock results in 10 % performance loss vs. factory clocks?


No need to pay for a low-volume Kaby Lake-K-only X299 board if any Z270 board does the same job.
Nice cherry picking. 4 benchmarks out of maybe 20 show slower results overclocked, and there are several that show at a 10% improvement. At least tell both sides of the story.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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The fact that there were regressions at all means that this particular overclock was a failure.

And if we leave the few regressions aside and look only at the benchmarks with improvements, then I still consider this everything but a "very good overclocker". But that it isn't, and why it isn't, is widely known; what is mindboggling is that there are still people claiming the contrary.

Edit: I concede though that it is a "very good overclocker" from a certain perspective: If we look at the delta from sweet-spot clocks to max clocks, then it overclocks very well indeed. And it comes highly overclocked out of the factory already, freeing the end-user from all of the work needed to achieve a stable overclock, for better or worse. --- However, as I mentioned, i7-7700K on Z270 is exactly the same, except for a slightly lower factory overclock.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,177
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On the i3's; I think that the 4C8T rumors are fake and it is "only" 4C4T. Given what Intel did with the i5 I will say the two models are a 8350K @ 4.2 Ghz and 8100 at 3.9 Ghz and less cache.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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The fact that there were regressions at all means that this particular overclock was a failure.

And if we leave the few regressions aside and look only at the benchmarks with improvements, then I still consider this everything but a "very good overclocker". But that it isn't, and why it isn't, is widely known; what is mindboggling is that there are still people claiming the contrary.

Edit: I concede though that it is a "very good overclocker" from a certain perspective: If we look at the delta from sweet-spot clocks to max clocks, then it overclocks very well indeed. And it comes highly overclocked out of the factory already, freeing the end-user from all of the work needed to achieve a stable overclock, for better or worse. --- However, as I mentioned, i7-7700K on Z270 is exactly the same, except for a slightly lower factory overclock.

Depends on how one defines "overclocking". Perhaps a more accurate term is that it can reach very high frequencies, which is the ultimate measure of single thread performance. So by your definition do you consider ryzen 1700 to be a "very good overclocker" since it can achieve a high percentage increase in frequency because of the low base clocks, even though skylale can reach at least 25% higher frequency? I certainly wouldnt. Should intel sell the 7740 at 3 ghz so that it would have 2 ghz of overclocking headroom? Would that make it a "good overclocker" by your definition?
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
522
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Kaby Lake-X makes the most sense as a very good overclocker: better bins, more TDP, no iGPU taking up power, etc.

Sorry, disagree. KL-X was already a not very good sku. But now only having KL-X mobo's takes even the stepping stone portion from the X platform.

I think it's such a waste having only 2, literally only 2 CPU's usable on a motherboard setup. I doubt Intel will release any other KL-X cpu's for that thing. It's not my R&D or $ at least.

I will just agree to disagree.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Sorry, disagree. KL-X was already a not very good sku. But now only having KL-X mobo's takes even the stepping stone portion from the X platform.

I think it's such a waste having only 2, literally only 2 CPU's usable on a motherboard setup. I doubt Intel will release any other KL-X cpu's for that thing. It's not my R&D or $ at least.

I agree. I'd rather spend a few extra $$s to get a delidded CFL hexacore from Silicon Lottery, and nice Z390 board and clock it nice and high. Feature set on the Z390 is better than the X299.
 
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TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
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So according to the slide there'll be the 2017 and the 2018 95W, 6C, K CPUs; are these the same or are the 2018 ones something better but only for CNL PCH or what are they? The slide depicts them as different.
 

Wyrm

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2017
23
19
51
Gigabyte and MSI are readying new motherboards designed only for Kabylake-X architecture.

https://videocardz.com/71656/x299-kabylake-x-only-motherboards-are-here

... while they continue offering $400-$500 overclocking motherboards that don't actually overclock due to VRM thermal issues. Hmm. I guess the solution is to add more Christmas-tree RGBs, right?

I'm wondering if Asus with its Apex will end up being the only company that is willing to own up to the quality of its products. EVGA maybe?
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,231
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- KBL-R PCH = Z370 = high-end chipset, which launches first and apparently won't get replaced by a Z390 in early 2018 as Dr.MOLA indicated

I interpret that chart completely differently. The Coffee Lake-s "Blob" clearly extends into enthusiast area replacing z270. Wether they call it z390 or the naming is changed completely, is a different question but can you really believe intel would not offer a enthusiast board / chipset (eg with OC capability) and the new features? Common. Even intel isn't that stupid. If they say "choose OC" or "choose USB 3.1 Gen 2" then I will just go AMD.

EDIT:

The fact z370 is still visible there is because it would be stupid to admit that chipset has a life of couple month only. Albeit it really is puzzling they are releasing it at all.
 

TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
786
310
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Z370 and whatever comes after are enthusiast boards, with the newer having a few more features than Z370, is what I grasp of the whole thing.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,631
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The fact z370 is still visible there is because it would be stupid to admit that chipset has a life of couple month only. Albeit it really is puzzling they are releasing it at all.
Z370 seems to have an even shorter life than Z270. Fun stuff.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,177
5,717
136
The fact z370 is still visible there is because it would be stupid to admit that chipset has a life of couple month only. Albeit it really is puzzling they are releasing it at all.

I guess it was easier to hack together CFL support into Z270 than to bring in the 300 series chipset along with Coffee Lake.

Presumably you won't see Z390 until the Z370 stock dwindles.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,488
3,981
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If I am reading the rumors correctly the Z390 isn't ready (this is probably that large blob called Coffee Lake-S platform chipset). But Intel is already producing Coffee Lake processors for sale later this year. Thus, Intel is forced into a difficult choice:

a) Have a bunch of Coffee Lake processors without a Z390 motherboard to run it, so they have to delay Coffee Lake (bad with Ryzen and Threadripper around),
b) Cripple the Coffee Lake processors into Z270 features (making Coffee Lake reviews bad),
c) Have a stopgap Z370 motherboard which is basically the Z270 + faster memory + better memory overclocking + next gen Optane (whatever that is).

Since almost no one actually upgrades CPUs, Intel went with option (c). If you are the type who upgrades CPUs, then wait and do not buy Coffee Lake this year.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
The fact z370 is still visible there is because it would be stupid to admit that chipset has a life of couple month only. Albeit it really is puzzling they are releasing it at all.

Ack! No Z390 - makes me wonder if it was cancelled?
 
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TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
786
310
136
Ack! No Z390 - makes me wonder if it was cancelled?

Or, alternatively, if it ever existed in the first place? It may have been a mere rumour. Or maybe it's like Dullard said, and the big blob is comprised of Z390 and other stuff. Doesn't matter to me personally either way; Z370 is all I need. I'd like to see some Asus ROG designs soon, I'm itching!

I know I'm asking this for the second time, and only so because I'm both somewhat confused and curious:

@Sweepr So according to the slide there'll be the 2017 and the 2018 95W, 6C, K CPUs; are these the same or are the 2018 ones something better but only for CNL PCH or what are they? The slide depicts them as different.
 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,429
136
The fact that there were regressions at all means that this particular overclock was a failure.

And if we leave the few regressions aside and look only at the benchmarks with improvements, then I still consider this everything but a "very good overclocker". But that it isn't, and why it isn't, is widely known; what is mindboggling is that there are still people claiming the contrary.

Edit: I concede though that it is a "very good overclocker" from a certain perspective: If we look at the delta from sweet-spot clocks to max clocks, then it overclocks very well indeed. And it comes highly overclocked out of the factory already, freeing the end-user from all of the work needed to achieve a stable overclock, for better or worse. --- However, as I mentioned, i7-7700K on Z270 is exactly the same, except for a slightly lower factory overclock.

The problem encountered by AT appears to be that the board's power delivery couldn't keep up with the current required for a 5GHz OC for benchmarks longer than 5 minutes or so. If you see their discussion it states:

The three that had the biggest dips are our longest benchmarks: Blender at 8 minutes, Handbrake HEVC at 25 minutes, and the Chrome Compile at over an hour. In this case it seems we are hitting thermal limits for the power delivery, as explained by Igor Wallossek over at Tom's Hardware. He tested an upcoming theory that the early X299 boards are not up to the task for cooling VRMs at heavy load, and through analysis he determined that this was likely to occur in heavily overclocked scenarios. His data showed that the Skylake systems he tested, when overclocked, would hit thermal limits, come back down, and then ramp up again in a cyclical manner. He tested Skylake-X, which draws a lot more power overclocked than our KBL-X setup here, so it likely isn't affecting our setup as much, but still enough for certain benchmarks. I fully suspect we will see second-wave X299 motherboards with substantial heatsinks on the power delivery to overcome this.
 
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