Intel SRT

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
I recently have purchase Z68 MB which has a Intel SRT feature.
I also have a 128 Gig Sata III SSD and 1 TB WD Black Sata III HDD.
Right now I am using SSD as my OS and Main programs Drive. Movies and BS stuff on HDD.
I have few questions.
* In my case will SRT gives me any meanfull benfits
* I have read its only Cache 60 Gig; if so what happens to rest of the storage Space ? (Is avaible for any thing else; or its goes to Phantom world)
* IS SRT speed can become equal speed of SSD ?
Thanks
Mir
 

fixbsod

Senior member
Jan 25, 2012
415
0
0
SRT is like poor/lazy man's SSD drive -- if you have a large SSD for OS / main programs you're better off continuing that and not bothering with SRT.

SRT is best for situations where you already have a platter drive as main drive and want to get some SSD speed but don't want to bother doing a full migration.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
I don't mind .......... but are they still stuck with 60 Gigs ?
What happen to rest of the Drive
 

kbp

Senior member
Oct 8, 2011
577
0
0
Acceleration will give you options on the size of caching you can use. The max is 64 but i think you may go as low as 18. This partions the drive so you can use the rest as you see fit.
 

GotNoRice

Senior member
Aug 14, 2000
329
5
81
Yes you can use anything above 64GB directly.

You won't actually be able to use SRT unless you re-install onto your mechanical drive.

The speed of anything that is cached by SRT does come very close to being on the SSD directly. It is a very good caching technology.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
Yes you can use anything above 64GB directly.

You won't actually be able to use SRT unless you re-install onto your mechanical drive.

..
..

To my understanding you set the Bios for Max performance (or similar) and Raid Mode.
Then Install Intel SRT, then Reboot
Then Enable Performance Mode
Reboot.
Slowly it will start caching out the Date which is most often is used.
Am I missing some thing ?
*****
I would rather use 128 Gig if I can.............
Seems like I am getting limited by SRT.
I really like the idea 1 TB space with speed of SSD.
Have software figure what needs to cache or not
**************
So far I am impress with my Seagate XT HDD. Very Fast Drive; Very close to SSD performace.
 
Last edited:

GotNoRice

Senior member
Aug 14, 2000
329
5
81
To my understanding you set the Bios for Max performance (or similar) and Raid Mode.
Then Install Intel SRT, then Reboot
Then Enable Performance Mode
Reboot.
Slowly it will start caching out the Date which is most often is used.
Am I missing some thing ?

This is how SRT works once configured and enabled for the first time:

You access a block of data for the first time from your mechanical Hard Drive, at which point it is also copied into cache.
The next time you access that same block, it will be accessed from cache instead.
As you access additional blocks of data from your mechanical Hard Drive, they will also be cached, and accessed from the cache upon subsequent requests for that block.
This process repeats until your cache is full at which point the oldest blocks in cache are pushed out of cache.

Note that I reference "blocks" because SRT works on the block/hardware level, not the file level or the program level. If you have a 3GB file that you only regularly access a few hundred megabytes of, only the blocks that contain those few hundred megabytes of data are likely be cached (as opposed to the whole file)

Until the cache actually fills up, it will continue to cache every single block that you access regardless of how frequently you access it. Only when the cache becomes full does anything start to be pushed out of cache, and at that point it will start with the oldest data in cache, not based on frequency of usage. It doesn't use any sort of algorithms to try and predict what you might need cached or anything like that. It doesn't differentiate between a file you've accessed thousands of times and a file you've only accessed once. It is based ONLY on which blocks you've most recently accessed.

Of course, anything you use on a regular basis is unlikely to become the oldest data in cache as it becomes the newest data in cache again every time you use access those blocks.

You can only use up to 64GB max as cache. This is not really a limitation because in practice the caching is actually pretty efficient. Take the game World of Warcraft for example. A modern install of WoW is about ~22 Gigabytes but a lot of that comes from old map files from past expansions and old content. A WoW player might only access ~5GB of data or less on a regular basis as they play the game, unless they just love exploring old content for no reason. There are countless other examples of this, such as games that have both a single-player and a multiplayer. If you just play multiplayer, it's likely not going to end up caching all the files for the single-player campaign, etc. In that respect 64GB ends up being a lot of data. Nothing is likely to end up pushed out of cache unless it has been a significant amount of time since it was last accessed.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
I recommend against dual usage of a larger-than-64GB SSD with ISRT caching.

With a good 60 or 64GB SATA-III SSD, I think calling it a "poor/lazy man's" SSD understates its value. If we can calculate "performance per dollar," it is a very effective and reliable solution.

I see now where the price/GB for SATA-III SSDs of practical capacity is just less than $1/GB. Of course, caching a very large HDD with many large data files would show less value. ISRT is best deployed for a boot-system and programs HDD. It wouldn't be helpful to cache a disk storing large media files.

There are a lot of ~60GB SATA-III SDDs available for this purpose -- for instance, a small capacity Cherryville or Pyro. I've seen drives of this size and stellar performance specs priced as low as $70. Save the larger capacity SSD for conventional, formatted deployment.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
In my case I have full blown 128 Gig Sata III SSD. I am not going to purchase a newer drive.
I recommend against dual usage of a larger-than-64GB SSD with ISRT caching.

With a good 60 or 64GB SATA-III SSD, I think calling it a "poor/lazy man's" SSD understates its value. If we can calculate "performance per dollar," it is a very effective and reliable solution.

I see now where the price/GB for SATA-III SSDs of practical capacity is just less than $1/GB. Of course, caching a very large HDD with many large data files would show less value. ISRT is best deployed for a boot-system and programs HDD. It wouldn't be helpful to cache a disk storing large media files.

There are a lot of ~60GB SATA-III SDDs available for this purpose -- for instance, a small capacity Cherryville or Pyro. I've seen drives of this size and stellar performance specs priced as low as $70. Save the larger capacity SSD for conventional, formatted deployment.
 

Wall Street

Senior member
Mar 28, 2012
691
44
91
With a good 60 or 64GB SATA-III SSD, I think calling it a "poor/lazy man's" SSD understates its value. If we can calculate "performance per dollar," it is a very effective and reliable solution.

I have a 32 GB cache drive (although SanDisk Readycache not SRT) and agree with this sentiment. For a $40 cache + $75 HDD I get 1 TB of storage that acts 90% of the time like an SSD. That is <10 cents per GB and feels fast except the first few times running each program.
 

fixbsod

Senior member
Jan 25, 2012
415
0
0
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression with my use of the "lazy / poor mans," although I do stick by that phrase. I whole-heartedly recommend people use SRT if they have that option and don't already have an SSD boot disk. Dropping in an SSD for SRT is fairly cheap as you're limited to 64 GB of caching, tho I think excess can be used as a drive. I'd prefer using a <=64 GB drive, myself I use an intel 313 20GB which uses SLC chips.

It is the poor mans SSD as you're still using a platter that's just been accelerated with often used blocks on the SSD drive. 64 GB SSD can be had for under $80, 480 GB SSDs are like $300+. Once you start looking over 480 GB the price gets EXPONENTIAL. Also as it's plug and play it's a helluva lot easier than migrating the OS. Took me more time to disconnect the wires/cables from the back and drag my computer out than it did with any drivers/OS tweaking.

But again, despite the negative connotation of my adjective, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND people look into this option, as noted I myself use SRT and it did dramatically speed up many operations. Boot time is now like 40 seconds to Windows from complete power off -- that's without UEFI.
 
Last edited:

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
81
My laptop came with a 1TB hard drive, and a 32GB mSATA SSD set for SRT caching. I have to say, I wasn't impressed with the overall performance. I ended up removing the hard disk, and replacing it with an SSD (256GB Samsung 830), and disabled the caching on the mSata drive, and use it as a spare hard drive as well. This gives a much better experience. I completely disagree with a hard disk and SRT cache giving "90%" of the experience of an SSD - it didn't come close to that for me. It might depend on how you use your computer though. My laptop is my work machine used for programming and running VMs. If you mainly game, then it might work better.
 

GotNoRice

Senior member
Aug 14, 2000
329
5
81
My laptop came with a 1TB hard drive, and a 32GB mSATA SSD set for SRT caching. I have to say, I wasn't impressed with the overall performance. I ended up removing the hard disk, and replacing it with an SSD (256GB Samsung 830), and disabled the caching on the mSata drive, and use it as a spare hard drive as well. This gives a much better experience. I completely disagree with a hard disk and SRT cache giving "90%" of the experience of an SSD - it didn't come close to that for me. It might depend on how you use your computer though. My laptop is my work machine used for programming and running VMs. If you mainly game, then it might work better.

Ignoring caching, just the difference in performance between the 32GB mSATA drive and the 256GB Samsung would be substantial. The 32GB mSATA drive wouldn't be anywhere near 90% of the performance of the 256GB Samsung even if you were using them both directly, so of course that won't be the case while using the 32GB drive for caching either.

Remember that SSDs get their speed by running many channels of flash essentially in raid. Below a certain capacity (usually 128-256) the number of channels start to get cut down, so you end up with a slower overall drive. Most 64GB drives are already much slower than their 128GB+ counterparts, and I imagine that it would be much worse with only 32GB.

Also, caching is just that, caching. Nothing will be accelerated until you've accessed it at least once. People still seem to expect that it will go out and cache stuff in advance, or that it uses some smart algorithm to cache stuff. Neither is the case. The system will be slow at first and become much faster as relevant files become cached. The process is not instantaneous but the results are good after a short period. Unfortunately many expect instant improvements and never really even give it a chance.
 

Wall Street

Senior member
Mar 28, 2012
691
44
91
Ignoring caching, just the difference in performance between the 32GB mSATA drive and the 256GB Samsung would be substantial. The 32GB mSATA drive wouldn't be anywhere near 90% of the performance of the 256GB Samsung even if you were using them both directly, so of course that won't be the case while using the 32GB drive for caching either.

There is a difference between 90% of the Iometer performance and 90% of the experience and I was talking about 90% of the experience. Going from 200 IOPS (the equivalent of a 7200 RPM HDD with 5 ms seek) to 10,000 IOPS does get most of the performance benefit of going to 50,000 IOPS even if mathematically it is only 1/5th as many IOPS. Anand's own SRT article days as much:
"Look at what happens when we reboot and run the application launch tests a third time: Performance keeps going up. The maximized SRT system is now virtually indistinguishable from the standalone SSD system."


kmmatney said:
I completely disagree with a hard disk and SRT cache giving "90%" of the experience of an SSD - it didn't come close to that for me. It might depend on how you use your computer though. My laptop is my work machine used for programming and running VMs. If you mainly game, then it might work better.

Yes, to be clear I was not referring to running VMs - multiple VM images would certainly not fit into 32 GB. However, the original poster also made reference to movie files and whatnot, so I would imagine my setup is more similar to his use case than yours.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
If I use SRT, my Sata controller are in Raid Mode. Will that pass TRIM commands to my SSD ?
Or My SSD would get slower as time gone by ?
The only reason I want to use it for a option of having a single 1TB space aviable.
Have SRT to decide what I don't day to day and put it in back burner.
 

LoveMachine

Senior member
May 8, 2012
491
3
81
Mir96TA, I just set up SRT on my system a few days ago with a situation similar to yours. I just got a new larger SSD for OS/apps, and a 3TB media drive. I have an AppleTV for the wife/kid to watch movies, and since iTunes is not the cleanest program out there, I noticed that disk activity on the media drive was crazy high. It kept hitting the same photo files for some reason and it dragged on other programs trying to access other media. I had a spare 64GB SSD sitting around, and tried to use SRT. Since it BIOS has to be in RAID, and Win7 was installed in AHCI, some registry tweaks were needed to get SRT to work. It was an abysmal failure. I had some other issues recently so just decided to re-install Win7 and start fresh with a RAID install. After that, SRT was a breeze and it works quite well without any fiddling. If you've got an unused drive and don't mind re-installing Win, go for it. At least some decent performance gains in some situations without any cost. If you aren't already in RAID mode, it may not be so easy.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
LoveMachine, I think I am in same as you are. I just have format the HDD and install the Win 7 Pro 64Bit. Right now it is in Raid Mode. I have installed the Intel software. However I have not installed the SSD yet (It is being used in a system which need to be switch back to HDD).
I am thinking about partation the SSD 64 for cache and rest of the stuff for some thing else which I know I need fast acess all the time (VM machines).
I have not seen a performance option in the intel software I guess that because I have not install the SSD in there ?.
I need to install lof things back on it that computer and Gizzlion of windows updates
 

san.salvador

Junior Member
Oct 18, 2012
14
0
0
There is a way to switch from IDE to AHCI without reinstalling windows, couldn't you apply the same principal to a AHCI -> RAID switch?

This is how SRT works once configured and enabled for the first time:

You access a block of data for the first time from your mechanical Hard Drive, at which point it is also copied into cache.
The next time you access that same block, it will be accessed from cache instead.
As you access additional blocks of data from your mechanical Hard Drive, they will also be cached, and accessed from the cache upon subsequent requests for that block.
This process repeats until your cache is full at which point the oldest blocks in cache are pushed out of cache.

Note that I reference "blocks" because SRT works on the block/hardware level, not the file level or the program level. If you have a 3GB file that you only regularly access a few hundred megabytes of, only the blocks that contain those few hundred megabytes of data are likely be cached (as opposed to the whole file)

Until the cache actually fills up, it will continue to cache every single block that you access regardless of how frequently you access it. Only when the cache becomes full does anything start to be pushed out of cache, and at that point it will start with the oldest data in cache, not based on frequency of usage. It doesn't use any sort of algorithms to try and predict what you might need cached or anything like that. It doesn't differentiate between a file you've accessed thousands of times and a file you've only accessed once. It is based ONLY on which blocks you've most recently accessed.

Of course, anything you use on a regular basis is unlikely to become the oldest data in cache as it becomes the newest data in cache again every time you use access those blocks.

You can only use up to 64GB max as cache. This is not really a limitation because in practice the caching is actually pretty efficient. Take the game World of Warcraft for example. A modern install of WoW is about ~22 Gigabytes but a lot of that comes from old map files from past expansions and old content. A WoW player might only access ~5GB of data or less on a regular basis as they play the game, unless they just love exploring old content for no reason. There are countless other examples of this, such as games that have both a single-player and a multiplayer. If you just play multiplayer, it's likely not going to end up caching all the files for the single-player campaign, etc. In that respect 64GB ends up being a lot of data. Nothing is likely to end up pushed out of cache unless it has been a significant amount of time since it was last accessed.
Great posting, I would like to add to that.

My understandig is that Intel SRT does a bit more than that, at least that's what I have read. Intel SRT should ignore very large files (ISO, TV recordings, big archives, ...) that would not profit very much from being cached.
I kind of see that in my testings since SRT does not improve sequential read speed above the speed of the HDD.
Take a folder containing many tiny files and some large ones, games often look like this. Copy that folder multiple times from the cached HDD to a even faster SSD and you should see that a) the tiny files get copied a lot faster and b) the large parts don't change in speed at all - even if the SSD used for caching is capable of much higher seq. read speeds than the HDD. Windows 8 has a beatiful graph in the new file copy dialog, makes it obvious.

I have never ever seen a read speed higher than the exact maximum of the HDD with a C300 128GIB added as cache.



But since you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge, there is something I could not find an answer for.

How does SRT act if it is set to "maximize", also caching write?
More precise, how much space does SRT take for writing on the cache? I like maximize, but if it caches let's say up to 30gig when writing, it would be quite a bummer losing 30gig of read cache. ~10% as write cache would seem the right balance to me, but again, I could not get any information on that.

Any more insight into "maximized" would be appreciated!
 
Last edited:

LoveMachine

Senior member
May 8, 2012
491
3
81
There is a way to switch from IDE to AHCI without reinstalling windows, couldn't you apply the same principal to a AHCI -> RAID switch?

It can be done, but real world results often don't go as planned. My attempt to do this failed. After switching the reg entries, Win7 would boot, but it took far longer. My media drive didn't show up at all, and the system was just quirky. Sometimes things aren't as easy as the interwebs would have us believe.
 
Last edited:

san.salvador

Junior Member
Oct 18, 2012
14
0
0
It can be done, but real world results often don't go as planned. My attempt to do this failed. After switching the reg entries, Win7 would boot, but it took far longer. My media drive didn't show up at all, and the system was just quirky. Sometimes things aren't as easy as the interwebs would have us believe.
Well, I did the IDE -> AHCI thingy and it worked extremely well. I installed the AHCI drivers, rebooted to BIOS, activated AHCI and Win automatically used the drivers previously fed. Done.

I am not saying it is as easy with AHCI -> RAID, but it is worth a try. The concept seems to be the same. But again, I did not actually try that one myself.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |