Question Intel to amd = more crashes?

[Hans Gruber]

I read a few posts and skipped to the end. You need to factory reset your bios to the standard settings. After booting up I would let it run for a few minutes, restart the computer and manually increase the voltage a bit. Then I would check to make sure your bios is up to date and not old. AMD motherboards can run any ram today. They have made the AM4 Ryzen platform as close to bullet proof as it gets.

A freeze or hang is either a ram issue or the CPU is not getting enough voltage. If you have no manually OC'd your system it's either a bios settings issue or a ram issue.

Reset your bios to factory default settings. Then see if that fixes the problem. After that increase the voltage on your ram.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Do you know how to use the Windows Event Viewer? The application and system logs may help narrow down the problem. Problems like this are typically due to misbehaving services or out of date drivers on the software side; bad memory or a corrupt NTFS drive on the hardware side. System crash files can help, but that is a bit of a PITA.

I haven't used it since I was doing break/fix almost 4yrs ago now. But when I did WhoCrashed was a real timesaver - https://www.resplendence.com/downloads

 

[aigomorla]

Just crashed now after almost finishing loading windows, i've had a few ssd's other than adata and the issue still persisted between all of them.

Page Fault in non paged area is the result of a program trying to access virtual memory when your windows has either insufficient or no virtual memory available.

Typically happens when your running a old program that requires paged memory.

Other problems can be your SSD is dying and the area which paged memory is allocated to is faulty.
Another is you need to do a fresh install, as the page memory allocation on maybe corrupted, or you can disable paged memory and then re enable it, see if this might fix it.

Solution would be to manually increase the paged memory and not let windows handle it automatically, or see Smart data on SSD to see if you had any write fault errors.
Or disable paged memory and then re enable it, if you require it, and are not running any old programs which may still require paged memory.

How To Manage Virtual Memory (Pagefile) In Windows 10

Follow these simple steps to manually manage the Virtual Memory (Pagefile) size in Windows 10.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[shabby]

Time to rma? How can memory be this faulty?

Test	# Tests Passed	Errors
Test 0 [Address test, walking ones, 1 CPU]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 1 [Address test, own address, 1 CPU]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 2 [Address test, own address]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 3 [Moving inversions, ones & zeroes]	2/4 (50%)	2
Test 4 [Moving inversions, 8-bit pattern]	0/4 (0%)	27
Test 5 [Moving inversions, random pattern]	0/4 (0%)	49
Test 6 [Block move, 64-byte blocks]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 7 [Moving inversions, 32-bit pattern]	0/4 (0%)	182
Test 8 [Random number sequence]	0/4 (0%)	5
Test 9 [Modulo 20, ones & zeros]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 10 [Bit fade test, 2 patterns, 1 CPU]	4/4 (100%)	0
Test 13 [Hammer test]	4/4 (100%)	0

 

[shabby]

Solution would be to manually increase the paged memory and not let windows handle it automatically, or see Smart data on SSD to see if you had any write fault errors.
Or disable paged memory and then re enable it, if you require it, and are not running any old programs which may still require paged memory.

How To Manage Virtual Memory (Pagefile) In Windows 10

Follow these simple steps to manually manage the Virtual Memory (Pagefile) size in Windows 10.

www.tomshardware.com

Just changed it.

 

[Torn Mind]

Time to rma? How can memory be this faulty?

Anything on a printed circuit board is made on a microscopic level. The chips are basically allowed to have chemistry do its work to turn into a functional product, but the process can't be "micromananged" because things are just too small.

Soldering is also probably automated, and maybe there's a bad connection or somehow too much heat affected one chip.

MemTest86 - Individual Test Descriptions

Looking at the descriptions, it's pretty clear you can't trust this RAM to keep data integrity. So, yes, RMA is pretty much a necessity.

 

[aigomorla]

Time to rma? How can memory be this faulty?

Yep time to RMA unless you have another pair of ram or another board to test ram in, because memory errors can be the result of CPU / MEMORY SLOT / RAM.

But im pretty sure corsair will accept the RMA with that picture regardless.
If new ram shows same error, then you can bet your board or CPU is borked.

 

[Shmee]

Yup, RMA that RAM kit.

 

[eek2121]

I cane here to post that memory is likely the problem. I have seen this issue creep up in the past. I ended up replacing the memory with a different brand on the QVL and it worked fine.

The issue wasn’t the memory being defective for me, but the board would load incompatible timings via XMP. XMP is an Intel specific standard and AMD chips are not 100% compatible with it.

At any rate, it sounds like you figured out your issue, good luck!

 

[aigomorla]

I cane here to post that memory is likely the problem. I have seen this issue creep up in the past. I ended up replacing the memory with a different brand on the QVL and it worked fine.

The issue wasn’t the memory being defective for me, but the board would load incompatible timings via XMP. XMP is an Intel specific standard and AMD chips are not 100% compatible with it.

At any rate, it sounds like you figured out your issue, good luck!

AMD = EXPO which is currently broken as heck on 7000 series ryzen, i am not sure if its even fixed yet, as i do not have a 7000 series.

Intel = XMP

And yeah XMP on AMD boards is defined probably like trying to shoot a bullseye on a horse thats giving you a rodeo kick, while trying to do a handstand on the saddle.

The only time i saw it work OK was back when AMD first came out and everyone was scrambling for Samsung B die ram.

 

[Markfw]

AMD = EXPO which is currently broken as heck on 7000 series ryzen, i am not sure if its even fixed yet, as i do not have a 7000 series.

Intel = XMP

And yeah XMP on AMD boards is defined probably like trying to shoot a bullseye on a horse thats giving you a rodeo kick, while trying to do a handstand on the saddle.

The only time i saw it work OK was back when AMD first came out and everyone was scrambling for Samsung B die ram.

Well, aside from the ASUS motherboard that I am typing on, and has only EXPO and reboots almost daily, all 5 of my other 7950x systems, use EXPO and work fine. I don't see that EXPO is broken, only ASUS. The other boatherboards are ASRock, and MSI.

 

[aigomorla]

Well, aside from the ASUS motherboard that I am typing on, and has only EXPO and reboots almost daily, all 5 of my other 7950x systems, use EXPO and work fine. I don't see that EXPO is broken, only ASUS. The other boatherboards are ASRock, and MSI.

I don't think EXPO has been patched back in after they took it out in April, or has it been patched back in?

Doing Google searches on the subject matter shows that ASRock EXPO isn't really fixed, they disabled it, even tho you enable it.
And MSI is having boat load of issues on the B650 still.

I didn't really keep up with EXPO on the 7000 series because i do not own one.
I have 4 x 5000 series but i am not running EXPO on those, as EXPO is DDR5.

 

[Tech Junky]

EXPO

I just want through a rebuild and went with 5200 RAM as it's least likely to have issues with the board I went with. The whole xmp expo thing just leads to potential issues on either camp. Though xmp is fully baked at this point in comparison. AMD is still half baked even at the uefi level compared to Intel based systems. It took a couple of versions to weed out some issues on my recent rebuild.

 

[Markfw]

I don't think EXPO has been patched back in after they took it out in April, or has it been patched back in?

Doing Google searches on the subject matter shows that ASRock EXPO isn't really fixed, they disabled it, even tho you enable it.
And MSI is having boat load of issues on the B650 still.

I didn't really keep up with EXPO on the 7000 series because i do not own one.
I have 4 x 5000 series but i am not running EXPO on those, as EXPO is DDR5.

One box.... Thats EXPO

Here is another EXPO

 

[Shmee]

Guys, you are talking about AM5 systems with DDR5. The OP has a AM4 system with DDR4. Very different. And I believe the AMD equivalent before EXPO was AMP?

Ok, so after a bit of searching, it seems that DOCP is an Asus implementation for AMD motherboards of the XMP profile. Gigabyte also has an equivalent, called EOCP. There is also AMP but some memory kits lack that profile. I cam across this which helps explain it. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ddr-dram-faq,4154-5.html

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMP was basically discontinued.

 

[Shmee]

AMP was basically discontinued.

Seems that EXPO is the latest, but that is for DDR5 only. Was there any AMP for DDR4? Or are they basically relying on things like DOCP, EOCP, and A-XMP? (I just found A-XMP is what MSI brands as their memory profile option.)

Anyway, we are getting a bit off topic here I feel, but OP, please do let us know if sending the RAM to RMA helps. Based on how many errors you were getting, I highly doubt that corsair is remotely stable, and I suspect that RAM is simply the problem, not the board or BIOS.

 

[aigomorla]

I highly doubt that corsair is remotely stable, and I suspect that RAM is simply the problem, not the board or BIOS.

I agree, but like eek2121 stated, it can be the board not liking the XMP profile on the ram when he has DOCP on.

I wonder if @shabby you can run the ram at the lowest JEDEC and give memtest one more try.

If it passes, then Ram and board is not compatible, at XMP which i think his memtest shows 2134mhz which is 4266mhz clocked ram if im not wrong which is XMP Profile.

 

[Shmee]

I agree, but like eek2121 stated, it can be the board not liking the XMP profile on the ram when he has DOCP on.

I wonder if @shabby you can run the ram at the lowest JEDEC and give memtest one more try.

If it passes, then Ram and board is not compatible, at XMP which i think his memtest shows 2134mhz which is 4266mhz clocked ram if im not wrong which is XMP Profile.

The picture shows 2134MT/s, which is different from MHz. The frequency should be 1066MHz, but at double data rate, that makes 2134 MT/s. I think I mentioned before, even if XMP/DOCP is enabled on that kit, (it could simply be at JEDEC standard or at an XMP of DDR4 2133, or even Memtest could be reading it wrong) corsair rates it for that frequency, as does any memory brand.

If a memory kit isn't stable at XMP, most cases that is still faulty RAM in my experience, even if it runs stable at JEDEC 2133. It could very well be stable at a lower setting, but not at XMP, and this is still cause for RMA, as it won't perform at rated RAM specs. Now there are other factors at play besides RAM, such as IMC and board, but Zen 3 has a pretty robust IMC compared to say, the first Ryzens.

EDIT: I double checked the picture from Memtest, looks like the part number indicates XMP is DDR4 3200 C16. If it is really running at only 2134, then it isn't even stable at JEDEC, let alone XMP.

 

[aigomorla]

The picture shows 2134MT/s, which is different from MHz. The frequency should be 1066MHz, but at double data rate, that makes 2134 MT/s. I think I mentioned before, even if XMP/DOCP is enabled on that kit, (it could simply be at JEDEC standard or at an XMP of DDR4 2133, or even Memtest could be reading it wrong) corsair rates it for that frequency, as does any memory brand.

Ahh your right i must of had a brain fart to read MT/s as MHz.

So yeah, he's running 1066mhz which is probably the lowest JEDEC.

 

[shabby]

Corsair is rma'ing it, new ram should be here next week.

 

[shabby]

Ran 3 tests and all passed
Corsair sent the ram all the way from taiwan

 

[Shmee]

Nice, hopefully no more crashes then!

 

[shabby]

A little update, even with new memory the crashes came back. I then changed the ssd and a fresh install and the crashes stopped for a while but eventually came back.
They got so bad that i couldn't even get into windows, i changed the motherboard and that fixed the crashes for a while, but they eventually came back also.
So a new ssd, new mobo, new ram and it still crashes on a daily basis mostly during bootup.
One thing i did last week was pull one of the memory modules out, so now i'm running on one stick... no crashes for the last week. Faulty imc on my ryzen 5600x?
Lets see how long this lasts...

 

[Hans Gruber]

A little update, even with new memory the crashes came back. I then changed the ssd and a fresh install and the crashes stopped for a while but eventually came back.
They got so bad that i couldn't even get into windows, i changed the motherboard and that fixed the crashes for a while, but they eventually came back also.
So a new ssd, new mobo, new ram and it still crashes on a daily basis mostly during bootup.
One thing i did last week was pull one of the memory modules out, so now i'm running on one stick... no crashes for the last week. Faulty imc on my ryzen 5600x?
Lets see how long this lasts...

You need to reset your bios to defaults. Run it that way for a few days. AMD systems are extremely stable.