Intel to Delay Q9300, Q9450 & Q9550

[Peelback79]

No one except the lunatic fringe Intel fanboys want to see AMD die. But to be honest, if Intel wants to jack prices up and delay releases, fine. The worst thing anyone can do in business or politics is involve emotion. The buck rests with us, the consumer. If Intel decides to play gouge-ball, let them. Do I like the fact that now, future processors are now farther into the future and may be more expensive? No. That's why I won't be buying untill I get what I want for the price I want. Just finished reading a fanboy post on another site where a bunch AMDiesels (they can't do anything but chug chug chug for amd) were screaming about Intel's unfair practices and throwing around subjective "facts" pointing to lawsuits and how Intel should be fined and regulated. I don't want Intel fined, or regulated, or broken up like Microsoft. Why? Because whenever you jump on board a "feel-good" lawsuit where it's "us", the poor helpless individual against the evil tyrannical Big Processor, Big Tobacco, Big whatever; you'll only end up screwing yourself. If there was such a lawsuit, they would only adjust prices per unit to cover losses thus, in a blind fury to make them pay, we ourselves would be paying more.

Long post short. AMD dead? Not yet. Hope not. Give me Nehalem or give me death! Or non-refundable John Tesh tickets, that'd be worse.

 

[Pabster]

Damn, looks like QX9650 is on my shopping list then.

Ah well. It is to be expected. AMD is providing no real competition and Intel is sliding back to monopoly mode.

On the bright side, QX9650 is a friggin' beast.

 

[Vipeax]

Wish I went with the Q6600 now .

Save money for a QX9650? 800 euros/1200USD great. :thumbsdown:

 

[Extelleron]

This has nothing to do with AMD. It has been announced before that the reason the quads are delayed is because of an ERROR, not lack of competition. With Phenom at under $200, Intel has more competition than ever. Phenom 9550 at $199 is a great option compared to Q6600 at $270, once the B3 stepping hits. With this delay, B3 chips should arrive before 45nm CPUs.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
This has nothing to do with AMD. It has been announced before that the reason the quads are delayed is because of an ERROR, not lack of competition. With Phenom at under $200, Intel has more competition than ever. Phenom 9550 at $199 is a great option compared to Q6600 at $270, once the B3 stepping hits. With this delay, B3 chips should arrive before 45nm CPUs.

Uh, yeah. Check back when that new stepping hits en masse. For now, Q6600 > Any Phenom, regardless of price.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: 21stHermit
Two things struck me in thinking this over . . . you know nightmares.

1] Since it cost Intel less to build a 45nm compared to a 65nm Quad, smaller die. You'd think for economic reason they would bring out the Q9xxx's. Perhaps the 45nm fab isn't up to full speed?

2] Will this also impact Nahalem?

Clearly Phenom is Phenomonally Pflat!!!

Understand that by GAAP (generally accepted account practices) the accounting numbers for converting to a new tech node pretty much always make it preferable to DELAY the capital expenditures (called capex in the semicon industry) if the competition will not be pressuring your margins.

TI still ships an amazing volume of 130nm product because the cost per chip is extremely low thanks to GAAP and depreciation AND that no one really competed effectively with TI in the GSM wireless space.

Same for Intel...yes it can cost less to produce a 45nm chip versus a 65nm chip WHEN a hell of a lot of other things are equal (die sizes, yields, cycle-time thru fab and packaging and test, and ALL equipment is >4yrs old and fully (equally being the objective here) depreciated so that something like higher performance of 45nm over 65nm drives higher ASPs and thusly higher margins OR similiar performance with smaller die sizes, etc etc etc)).

Based on my experience with TI and the economics that drove our node transistions...I would not endorse anyone's statement which was to an effect nothing more than "well 45nm is cheaper than 65nm, idinit?"

All well and good and I understand your points. However, Intel has already spent north of $2B on a production 45nm fab in AZ. So until that 45nm fab is at capacity and you have to bring on a second 45nm fab. It make sense to run as many wafers as possible. Assuming equal yields, big assumption, the a 45nm wafer will yield more usable dies than a 65nm wafer.

In any case we own AMD for all this, because w/o AMD the 800# gorilla wouldn't be spending all this money on Tick-Tock.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Phynaz
Remember, I was the first to say that Intel would push Nehalem into 2009 due to Phailnom

I started saying that a long time ago, too. Intel has no reason to rush to nehalem b/c they are so dominanct with c2d/penryn right now. I think that we'll see from intel is what we saw from nvidia in nov 06: they'll release when they're completely prepared and they've got tons of product ready for sale. If there are ANY problems at all they'll just delay and keep shipping penryns because AMDwon't be pushing them. What I'm hoping to see is more like what happened with the 8800gt/3870 in oct/nov of this year when nvidia bumped up the clocks on the 8800gt and released it VERY early to get to market before amd. THAT is what we were used to seeing for the past several years but now, I'm afraid, those days are gone. Maybe sometime in the next 2-3 years amd or somebody else will come out with some competition to intel, until then we will just have to suffer through high prices and product delays.

 

[Engineer]

Shit!!!! #!@$!#!@@#$@#$@#!

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Phynaz
Remember, I was the first to say that Intel would push Nehalem into 2009 due to Phailnom

I started saying that a long time ago, too. Intel has no reason to rush to nehalem b/c they are so dominanct with c2d/penryn right now. I think that we'll see from intel is what we saw from nvidia in nov 06: they'll release when they're completely prepared and they've got tons of product ready for sale. If there are ANY problems at all they'll just delay and keep shipping penryns because AMDwon't be pushing them. What I'm hoping to see is more like what happened with the 8800gt/3870 in oct/nov of this year when nvidia bumped up the clocks on the 8800gt and released it VERY early to get to market before amd. THAT is what we were used to seeing for the past several years but now, I'm afraid, those days are gone. Maybe sometime in the next 2-3 years amd or somebody else will come out with some competition to intel, until then we will just have to suffer through high prices and product delays.

Well Intel definitely can play their release-schedule hands to further maximize margins across the various market segments.

Don't need Yorkfield on desktop to defend margins in the enthusiast segment? No problem, shift production SKU's to boost volume of low-power SKU'ed XEON server chips as well as mobile computing segments.

Don't need native quad core w/IMC for either desktop or mobile computing segments in Q4/08? No problem, place volume scheduling for Nehalem release across the board for the multi-socket server and workstation segments (AMD's last vestige of high-margin sales).

Rest assured Nehalem will ship in volume as quickly as Intel can deliver them, but don't be too surprised if they are not shipping to a market segment near you anytime soon.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Well, Intel is still denying it. And as far as we know, it might have been Feb/March all along. The dual cores and the mobile Penryn is launching in January anyway.

http://www.hkepc.com/?id=527

Mobile Penryn: January 6
Wolfdale: January 20
Yorkfield: Feb/March

Have you guys not heard of Fudzilla report that the initial steppings of Penryn has a clock speed scaling problem and the new steppings will make it reach sky-high speeds?? Why does the QX9775 run so hot?? Maybe they do have some problem.

 

[GundamF91]

As much as it's about production cost, Intel invests heavily in manpower and engineering power. So if they dont' need to push as hard, they can take time with their projects and find more cost saving ways to bring 45nm processor out to the masses. I can see that Intel would definitely take its sweet time to get 45nm production ducks in a role and not have to rush. With Phenom off its backs, Intel now has time to take a breather. Besides, they wouldn't want their own product to kill off sales of their lesser offerings. Right now there's plenty of options for jus about every level of user out there, Intel has a very smart pricing structure for every product segment and the company is not about to mess that up by shooting its own foot.

On the other hand, this may not be a bad thing for competition over the long run. If Intel pushes much harder, AMD'll faulter even more and may be out of business. This "hare and tortoise race" with Intel being hare should give AMD some breathing time too, to refine its process and find ways to be more competitive. So it's good for general competition in the long run. If Intel kills AMD right now, there'd be no body to go against Intel, then we'll definitely see higher prices for not much gain.

 

[Zenoth]

It's simple then ...

I'm going for the Wolfdale E8400 3.0Ghz, I'll probably OC it to a modest 3.5Ghz or 3.6Ghz (on air), and I will wait until Nehalem gets out to move on to the Quad Core "advantage". After all it's not like Dual Cores are anywhere near "useless" compared to the Quad Cores. As far as gaming is concerned I would be happy to have a Penryn Dual Core running at 3.4Ghz to 3.6Ghz until the "next big thing" comes out. I really don't feel like waiting two or three extra months for the Q9300 or Q9450. I already have my GA-X38-DQ6 and my PC2-8500 Crucial Ballistix waiting for that E8400 to rock my games.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Just as well! Until we get some mobo's that will reliably do 550-600mhz FSB these things are pretty much useless to overclockers. It is widely expected that these will overclock past 4ghz with ease but with the low multi's it will require some insane FSB speeds

Q9450 @ 4.2ghz = FSB 525x8
Q9300 @ 4.2ghz = FSB 560x7.5

The FSB limit on current mobo's using a quad seems to be 450-475mhz if your lucky.
Which means your top overclock on current boards for these chips would be:
Q9450 3.6-3.8ghz
Q9300 3.1-3.3ghz
You can equal that or better with a 1066FSB Q6600, so whats the point

Much lower power consumption springs to mind, considering a 3.6GHz Q6600 @ 1.4V pulls ~165W according to the CPU wattage calculator at http://newstuff.orcon.net.nz/wCalc.html

Don't forget the Q9450 will outperform the Q6600 at the same clocks due to higher IPC / 12MB L2 cache, it only takes a 3.4GHz Q9450 to match a 3.6GHz Q6600. The Q9300 is a different story, since it only has 6MB of L2 cache, which probably puts it fairly even with the Q6600 IPC wise.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
This has nothing to do with AMD. It has been announced before that the reason the quads are delayed is because of an ERROR, not lack of competition. With Phenom at under $200, Intel has more competition than ever. Phenom 9550 at $199 is a great option compared to Q6600 at $270, once the B3 stepping hits. With this delay, B3 chips should arrive before 45nm CPUs.

I disagree I think this erratum is something Intel blew outta proportation so they can justify such a delay. Just watch, if AMD isn't putting a good competitive product out, Intel will delay again so they have time to improve yield and when it;s time to release they can make the same product at cheaper price due to maturation of the 45nm process. I think this is due to lack of competition and a good move by intel and you can expect the new chip will be release at incredible prices just like back in Pentium I&II days.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: nyker96

Originally posted by: Extelleron
This has nothing to do with AMD. It has been announced before that the reason the quads are delayed is because of an ERROR, not lack of competition. With Phenom at under $200, Intel has more competition than ever. Phenom 9550 at $199 is a great option compared to Q6600 at $270, once the B3 stepping hits. With this delay, B3 chips should arrive before 45nm CPUs.

I disagree I think this erratum is something Intel blew outta proportation so they can justify such a delay. Just watch, if AMD isn't putting a good competitive product out, Intel will delay again so they have time to improve yield and when it;s time to release they can make the same product at cheaper price due to maturation of the 45nm process. I think this is due to lack of competition and a good move by intel and you can expect the new chip will be release at incredible prices just like back in Pentium I&II days.

I believe it's ""All of the Above""

They are correcting the errata, improving process, refining platforms and waiting to see the new AMD spins. They are foolish not to delay.

If the new B3 stepping is sweet, 45nm Intel will cut the legs out from underneath AMD on price. If B3 is a dawg Intel will have no reason to curtail prices and compete against themselves at high clocks. Why leave buckets of cash on the table?

Once the 45nm cat is out of the bag it's not like they can jack up prices 20% without limiting supply

 

[imported_boe]

Dang - I really thought the Q9550 would be out by now. I would have no problem switch to AMD if I could get something in the same range of performance and price. Intel sure has not made of friend of me by delaying this just because they don't have adequate competition at the moment.

 

[bryanW1995]

check out the Q9550 thread. Why pay $599 from stalliontek (who has it now) when you can get an X3550 for $325-$345??? that .5x multi will get you a max of what, 235 mhz OC room?

 

[piotrgurin]

No more AMD is bad for all of us..

 

[lloydxd]

Phew good thing i got the X3550 Xeon equivalent. They're probably sold out by now so no Q9450 till another 2-3 months. But I was seriously considering the Q6600 because of the same reasons people in this topic has posted about--the extra cache and cooler temps. I saw the 9550 selling for ~500 somewhere though.

 

[aigomorla]

guys this delay was announced in last year. Check the first thread post.

The delay happened, and there out.

How well they overclock its up in the air, but yes the X3550 is your cheapest and best bet.

 

[Hulk]

Originally posted by: Peelback79
No one except the lunatic fringe Intel fanboys want to see AMD die. But to be honest, if Intel wants to jack prices up and delay releases, fine. The worst thing anyone can do in business or politics is involve emotion. The buck rests with us, the consumer. If Intel decides to play gouge-ball, let them. Do I like the fact that now, future processors are now farther into the future and may be more expensive? No. That's why I won't be buying untill I get what I want for the price I want. Just finished reading a fanboy post on another site where a bunch AMDiesels (they can't do anything but chug chug chug for amd) were screaming about Intel's unfair practices and throwing around subjective "facts" pointing to lawsuits and how Intel should be fined and regulated. I don't want Intel fined, or regulated, or broken up like Microsoft. Why? Because whenever you jump on board a "feel-good" lawsuit where it's "us", the poor helpless individual against the evil tyrannical Big Processor, Big Tobacco, Big whatever; you'll only end up screwing yourself. If there was such a lawsuit, they would only adjust prices per unit to cover losses thus, in a blind fury to make them pay, we ourselves would be paying more.

Long post short. AMD dead? Not yet. Hope not. Give me Nehalem or give me death! Or non-refundable John Tesh tickets, that'd be worse.

Absolutely correct regarding regulation. The only thing the government can do when it comes to failing businesses is print money and/or socialize wealth. The first creates inflation and the second penalizes success.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Just as well! Until we get some mobo's that will reliably do 550-600mhz FSB these things are pretty much useless to overclockers. It is widely expected that these will overclock past 4ghz with ease but with the low multi's it will require some insane FSB speeds

Q9450 @ 4.2ghz = FSB 525x8
Q9300 @ 4.2ghz = FSB 560x7.5

The FSB limit on current mobo's using a quad seems to be 450-475mhz if your lucky.
Which means your top overclock on current boards for these chips would be:
Q9450 3.6-3.8ghz
Q9300 3.1-3.3ghz
You can equal that or better with a 1066FSB Q6600, so whats the point

I gotta admit, the GD man has a point. I'll likely stick with Duallies for quite awhile... and the Q6600 actually looks a lot better now. An 85-year old woman at my church uses Skype and videocams all the time and wants to upgrade her computer, and for some reason really likes Staples. As it happens, Staples has a very respectable Q6600 box for $679, which to me is the best bang-for-buck thing they have. That ol' gal could have quad-core goodness v. shortly.

Originally posted by: Zenoth
It's simple then ...

I'm going for the Wolfdale E8400 3.0Ghz, I'll probably OC it to a modest 3.5Ghz or 3.6Ghz (on air), and I will wait until Nehalem gets out to move on to the Quad Core "advantage". After all it's not like Dual Cores are anywhere near "useless" compared to the Quad Cores. As far as gaming is concerned I would be happy to have a Penryn Dual Core running at 3.4Ghz to 3.6Ghz until the "next big thing" comes out. I really don't feel like waiting two or three extra months for the Q9300 or Q9450. I already have my GA-X38-DQ6 and my PC2-8500 Crucial Ballistix waiting for that E8400 to rock my games.

Yeah, I have to agree. I also hate the multipliers on those quads. As GD noted, that's another big reason not to go for them. The Duallies are excellent chips.

I hope AMD has some success with their B3 stepping, and I hope it gets out fast. Heck, I'd consider building another SFF PC based on one.

 

[n7]

Thread necromancy! :Q

 

[bryanW1995]

Long post short. AMD dead? Not yet. Hope not. Give me Nehalem or give me death! Or non-refundable John Tesh tickets, that'd be worse.

um, I was feeling fine until you brought up john tesh. thanks, I just ate.

 

[T2k]

ROFLMAO