Intel VS AMD A world of make-believe

[videoclone]

I myself don?t think AMD would need to do anything, because Intel does all the damage to itself without any help at all ? The only thing selling Intel?s Server and Desktop CPU?s is intel?s 80% control of the Market. (ie: dell )

If intel had 20% and AMD had 80% ?.. I think Intel would go out of business as it couldn?t compete. And AMD would be able to crush intel with competitive pricing alone. and no one would really have any reason at all to go with Intel !!!

I think a 50-50 market split with intel - AMD would see allot newer and faster CPU's hit the streets.

What would you think would happen ??????

 

[Furen]

If AMD controlled the market the way Intel does right now we'd be seeing lots of innovation from Intel. Necessity is the mother of invention, as you know, so AMD would just sit on top of the roost while investing on things that allowed it to move into other markets. After all, what's the point of investing so much into CPU development when your market share cant grow that much.

 

[hans007]

i would cut prices, which worked to get me to go back to intel which i did recently for the following 2 reasons

1.. i was able to get a new intel pentium D 820 on ebay for $190

and

2. i am doign this in a btx case which is about as quiet as quiet gets (without resorting to a very expensive cooling setup , i.e. $45 cnps 7700 or something like that).


yes i know ill get flamed, but evenwith cool and quiet and 3 low volted 7v zalman fans i could not get my athlon 64 as quiet as this, nor could i hope in a million years to have dual core for $200

 

[goofivee]

I have had both intel and amd processors and personally I think AMD processor are just better all together. AMD processors seem to unzip files in windows and stuff faster, perform better when gaming, and best of all they run a heck of alot cooler than intels.

 

[videoclone]

goodfivee .... ^_^ this thread isnt talking about whos better its about who would play a better fiddle while at the top of the hill...

We all know Intel cant play very well. eeeeoooo

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: hans007
i would cut prices, which worked to get me to go back to intel which i did recently for the following 2 reasons

1.. i was able to get a new intel pentium D 820 on ebay for $190

and

2. i am doign this in a btx case which is about as quiet as quiet gets (without resorting to a very expensive cooling setup , i.e. $45 cnps 7700 or something like that).


yes i know ill get flamed, but evenwith cool and quiet and 3 low volted 7v zalman fans i could not get my athlon 64 as quiet as this, nor could i hope in a million years to have dual core for $200

Nope you cant beat that!!! Dont blame you there...I here they are not very popular so probably why you got a great deal...I wouldf even buy one at that price...

Pretty much all the X2's on ebay go for higher then I can buy retail with warranties and credible retailers...not to mention not get screwed with outrageous shipping prices

 

[LT4CAMSS]

I think Furen put it well. It's for the best that there is competition between the two. If AMD was at the top right now (in market share I'm talking) AND it had this amazing cpu lineup (which it does-the A64), it would probably rest on its laurels and not innovate until it received some threatening competition.

I'm not saying there weren't other processors in the pre-500MHz days, but the fact is there was one general, mainstream choice at that time and it was Intel. It wasn't until they started feeling serious competition from AMD that we started seeing a bunch of speed bumps more often. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have expanded and improved at all, but it would have probably taken longer to get to say for example, 1 GHZ, in the MHz race if AMD was not around (and vice versa). AMD beat Intel to that actually and even though the MHz race continued and still somewhat continues, the existence of AMD as a cpu superpower has lead [both of] them to start implementing (in the mainstream) things like dual-core cpus. This competition is great because if you're not familiar with it yet, there is nothing like dual-core. The % increase in performance is phenomenal. And it was all caused by this competition and the big two realizing that MHz speed bumps weren't gonna cut it anymore.

So yes, Videoclone, I agree with you. A better balance in market share would lead to more innovation and technology on both sides. And that's what I want. I want choices. I like being able to choose. When it's a clear victory then one company starts gaining the ability to charge up the...

 

[StrangerGuy]

AMD will probably do the same or even worse as Intel if the CPU marketshare numbers switched positions. Just remember, AMD isn't the guardian angel of CPUs.

 

[interchange]

Intel employs a lot of tactics to keep their products on the shelves. They do a lot of rebate stuff to computer stores to push the sales of their processors, leverage deals for retail market space, exploit contracts with larger computer manufacturers, etc. Basically, an Intel's prices are higher to the consumer, but they maintain their lead by spending the price difference to ensure the big markets don't sell a lot of their competitors products. They're forcing AMD to undercut prices because it's the only way they can compete, even with a superior product.

It sounds silly, but the best way for AMD to gain market share is for other companies to provide reasonable competition. With more competitors, the quality of the product becomes more of a driving factor for consumer decision.

 

[DarkKnight69]

So does anyone have proof that Intel did this stuff. I am talking PROOF, not what amd days or anything like this.

As well, I am not sure what AMD would hav done in Intels situation, but I do not think they would have been the fair traders that everyone wants them to be. All companies when they reach the top want to stay on top!

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
So does anyone have proof that Intel did this stuff. I am talking PROOF, not what amd days or anything like this.

As well, I am not sure what AMD would hav done in Intels situation, but I do not think they would have been the fair traders that everyone wants them to be. All companies when they reach the top want to stay on top!

If you scroll back through Anand's blogs, he attests to seeing much of this firsthand...

 

[Lithan]

If I was amd with intel's position? Charge $50 for celeron/sempron. Intel already has control of consumer market with advert. Give them the low-price market and AMD ONLY has enthusiasts left and server market. Since amd will be in Intel's position, but I'm assuming keep their own tech, this would leave Intel (in AMD's position with Intel's tech) with nothing but fanboys.

 

[DarkKnight69]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
So does anyone have proof that Intel did this stuff. I am talking PROOF, not what amd days or anything like this.

As well, I am not sure what AMD would hav done in Intels situation, but I do not think they would have been the fair traders that everyone wants them to be. All companies when they reach the top want to stay on top!

If you scroll back through Anand's blogs, he attests to seeing much of this firsthand...

LMAO, when i start believe every blog I read, i will be getting a gun and shooting myselft A blog proves less then what AMD has claimed...I want PROOF!!!!!!!

 

[Furen]

It's foolish to ask us for proof because you know we dont have access to it. What would you consider proof? NEC going from 40% AMD processors to 0% from 2002Q1 to 2003Q1? NEC not marketing the Opteron servers that it developed (not an insignificant expense, I might add) for Honda? Virtually all Japanese OEMs going Intel-exclusive (or close enough to it) from 2002-mid 2003? Intel HAS maintained its marketshare through rebates, kickbacks, etc. The question is: is it illegal?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
So does anyone have proof that Intel did this stuff. I am talking PROOF, not what amd days or anything like this.

As well, I am not sure what AMD would hav done in Intels situation, but I do not think they would have been the fair traders that everyone wants them to be. All companies when they reach the top want to stay on top!

If you scroll back through Anand's blogs, he attests to seeing much of this firsthand...

LMAO, when i start believe every blog I read, i will be getting a gun and shooting myselft A blog proves less then what AMD has claimed...I want PROOF!!!!!!!

It is stated by CEOs of major companies and I believe an EX Dell exec who now works for AMD or some othe rcompetitor of Dell...Your problem is you wont believ it unless you were there hearing it personally so just drop it....Obviously the JFTC thought their was proof....I guess that isn't good enough for you either. I am sure those office raids in Asia provided proof in the form of documents....

 

[microAmp]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
So does anyone have proof that Intel did this stuff. I am talking PROOF, not what amd days or anything like this.

As well, I am not sure what AMD would hav done in Intels situation, but I do not think they would have been the fair traders that everyone wants them to be. All companies when they reach the top want to stay on top!

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=1153
Start with 3rd paragraph from the top.


About the best I could do and Anand mentions this in his blog a couple months ago.

 

[Bona Fide]

Originally posted by: Furen
If AMD controlled the market the way Intel does right now we'd be seeing lots of innovation from Intel. Necessity is the mother of invention, as you know, so AMD would just sit on top of the roost while investing on things that allowed it to move into other markets. After all, what's the point of investing so much into CPU development when your market share cant grow that much.

Too true. We can only hate Intel right now because they're on top and don't have to work anymore. But if the tables were turned we'd probably be like "Screw AMD...look at Intel's new line!"

Fortunately, we can rely on Ruiz and AMD to remain competitive for some time to come. There was quite a scare with the astronomically priced X2's, but that seems to be dropping down to acceptable margins.

 

[DarkKnight69]

I dont deny what happened in Japan...

 

[DarkKnight69]

How about instead of making speculations and blogs, we wait and see what happens. All speculations will be biased towards whomever you are supporting.

 

[Furen]

How about you let us speculate to our heart's content if you don't want to do it yourself?

 

[DarkKnight69]

so be it

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
How about instead of making speculations and blogs, we wait and see what happens. All speculations will be biased towards whomever you are supporting.

What is speculations?? theonly speculation I see is whether in the US the courts will find these acts illegal and side in AMDs favor...

The claims are made by individuals who since AMD named specifically (legal reaons) would have likely got a sworn deposition prioir to making these claims. So unlike Bill Clinton these ppl swore to tell the truth under oath and I will take their word over yours.....JFTC who was investingaing this case in Japan (which I believe and I will research some more was not filed by AMD but perhaps another OEM builder) and collected evidence by raiding Intels offices and offices of OEM builders. They likely would not have ruled Intel did these same things unless they had evidence...

So you and the INtel boys can believ all of these are false, and believe the real reasons AMD are not sold by OEMs are

1)supply issues
2)driver / chipset issues "stability"
3)INtel complete favor among businesses

 

[DarkKnight69]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
How about instead of making speculations and blogs, we wait and see what happens. All speculations will be biased towards whomever you are supporting.

What is speculations?? theonly speculation I see is whether in the US the courts will find these acts illegal and side in AMDs favor...

The claims are made by individuals who since AMD named specifically (legal reaons) would have likely got a sworn deposition prioir to making these claims. So unlike Bill Clinton these ppl swore to tell the truth under oath and I will take their word over yours.....JFTC who was investingaing this case in Japan (which I believe and I will research some more was not filed by AMD but perhaps another OEM builder) and collected evidence by raiding Intels offices and offices of OEM builders. They likely would not have ruled Intel did these same things unless they had evidence...

So you and the INtel boys can believ all of these are false, and believe the real reasons AMD are not sold by OEMs are

1)supply issues
2)driver / chipset issues "stability"
3)INtel complete favor among businesses

Chill back

1. I didnt ever say that they were not true, I said I had not seen them for myself or really good evidence they occured.
2.Many businesses do favor Intel. i work for a government institution and they always buy intel. As well, companies such as wal-mart buy intel as well.

The speculation from what i am refering is whether or not AMD would have done the same thing if they were in Intels place. Likely is something of the similar would have occured. Dont kid yourselves, companies will do alot to stay on top.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
How about instead of making speculations and blogs, we wait and see what happens. All speculations will be biased towards whomever you are supporting.

What is speculations?? theonly speculation I see is whether in the US the courts will find these acts illegal and side in AMDs favor...

The claims are made by individuals who since AMD named specifically (legal reaons) would have likely got a sworn deposition prioir to making these claims. So unlike Bill Clinton these ppl swore to tell the truth under oath and I will take their word over yours.....JFTC who was investingaing this case in Japan (which I believe and I will research some more was not filed by AMD but perhaps another OEM builder) and collected evidence by raiding Intels offices and offices of OEM builders. They likely would not have ruled Intel did these same things unless they had evidence...

So you and the INtel boys can believ all of these are false, and believe the real reasons AMD are not sold by OEMs are

1)supply issues
2)driver / chipset issues "stability"
3)INtel complete favor among businesses

Chill back

1. I didnt ever say that they were not true, I said I had not seen them for myself or really good evidence they occured.
2.Many businesses do favor Intel. i work for a government institution and they always buy intel. As well, companies such as wal-mart buy intel as well.

The speculation from what i am refering is whether or not AMD would have done the same thing if they were in Intels place. Likely is something of the similar would have occured. Dont kid yourselves, companies will do alot to stay on top.

1) if you say speculating you are definitely not saying you think they are true...

2) That is not a surprise....Chances are it will be like that when you control 80+% of the market....Also most government agencies I know of buy from Dell and we know hoe their choices go from there...I think it is more about Dell then it has to do with Intel, so dont fool yourself...


Last part I agree....I wouldn't put it past them...doesn't excuse it playing this hypothetical game...Still wrong and they still should be punished...

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: hans007
i would cut prices, which worked to get me to go back to intel which i did recently for the following 2 reasons

1.. i was able to get a new intel pentium D 820 on ebay for $190

and

2. i am doign this in a btx case which is about as quiet as quiet gets (without resorting to a very expensive cooling setup , i.e. $45 cnps 7700 or something like that).


yes i know ill get flamed, but evenwith cool and quiet and 3 low volted 7v zalman fans i could not get my athlon 64 as quiet as this, nor could i hope in a million years to have dual core for $200

It's funny, I have an athlon xp system with 3 panaflo fans, and the electric hum from my neopower power supply(which is supposed to be a quiet power supply) is louder than the 6 fans(3 + cpu + video + power supply) inside my case, and the electric hum is pretty damn quiet too.