Intel Vs. AMD in HTPC Build

[Arkitekt]

I am having a hard time choosing between an Intel CPU or an AMD APU for my HTPC.

I should probably outline what I am wanting to accomplish with my HTPC. Mainly it will be used to play 1080p media while connected to our 46" HDTV via HDMI, it will also be used to stream media to up to 2 other TV's (most likely through Plex on a Roku 2 XD). It may have to transcode on the fly while streaming to the other TV's. It will not need to do 3D, and it will not have an ODD, so no need to playback DVD/BD discs, possibly only rips. It will also not be used for gaming.

Currently I have been looking at either an AMD A6-3500 or an Intel Pentium G850.

For motherboard I was thinking of an A75M for the AMD or a H77M for the Intel, mostly because I was planning on getting a SATAIII SSD for the OS and a SATAIII HDD for media. The Silverstone Milo case that I am looking at also has 2 USB3.0 slots on the front, so USB3.0 headers on the mobo would be nice. I also require the mobo to have HDMI and be mATX

For RAM I was thinking of $gb (2x2gb) G.Skills Ripjaws DDR3 1600 (for the AMD) or 4gb (2x2gb) Corsair DDR3 1333 (for the Intel)

I have been leaning towards AMD only because it would be cheaper in the end; however I would like to get the best CPU/Mobo setup possible for my needs, without breaking the bank. I don't plan on getting a GPU.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Durvelle27]

this should be in the general hardware thread ?

 

[micrometers]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3870k-apu-overclocking-guide,3260.html

If you read this, the llano graphics platform basically gets slighly less performance than a 6670 while consuming more power.

So an intel g850 +radeon 6670 will consume less power and deliver higher performance than an AMD A8 3870.

But an AMD A8 3870 would likely fit into like an ITX case easily because it's just one chip so you don't need to fit in an external card.

I am an AMD fan, but intel is unarguably better all around. It's not even close.

 

[Durvelle27]

AMD would be beter better as it would cost less

@karmypoltics they will consume about the same power once the intel rig adds an graphics card but will cost more

 

[Arkitekt]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I put it in here because it was regarding an HTPC build.

With Intel, would I need to have a video card? Would the onboard HD2000 graphics not suffice?

 

[Durvelle27]

the APU graphics would be 10x better than the HD 2000

 

[Arkitekt]

the APU graphics would be 10x better than the HD 2000

What about the processing power of the APU? would it be enough to handle what I would put it through? (which is probably not much mind you). At most it might have to play 1080p to one tv while streaming it to another via the Roku.

I have also thought about saving more money and stepping down to a A4-3400 (not sure what I would lose overall though)

 

[Durvelle27]

yes it will be fine

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I gave up on AMD for the HTPC, not because of the hardware but because of the drivers. My HTPC was constantly having issues with both video and sound. They were common errors too that many others over at AVS Forum encounter as well and for which their don't seem to be solutions like the mute bug, the driver display error, and the resume in the wrong resolution bug (which can be resolved using the MCE Standby Tool utility).

I changed the hardware around a number of times trying to resolve the problems and tried all kinds of drivers. Granted, I used AMD video cards, a 5450 and a 6570, instead of one of their APUs but driver issues are driver issues.

Finally I switched to a G530 and haven't had any issues since. The HTPC has been rock solid and I don't have to employ a bunch of tweaks like turning off navigations sounds or setting Windows sound to 2.1 in order to avoid some known problems. The iGPU handles BD with no problems and I can record 4 programs while watching a recording and streaming to the other TV without it even breathing hard.

My experience is anecdotal and may not be yours should you decide to go with AMD, and there are some people who run AMD HTPCs without problems. However, if you look over at AVS Forum you will see that there are many highly experienced HTPCers that have issues using AMD in their HTPCs and prefer Intel for that purpose instead.

 

[smitbret]

Your CPU should certainly be the biggest decision heren followed by HDD. APU/GPU is really a non-issue and I really don't see any reason not to just go with any modern onboard APU since they'll all playback 1080p with no problem.

The On-the-Fly transcoding is the biggest issue. If you're transcoding Blu-Ray rips to 1080p, don't underestimate how much CPU horsepower it's gonna take. I really wouldn't consider anything less than an i5-2500 for this task. A 6-core AMD would really be pushing it, especially if you're simultaneously using one core to serve a second file from the HTPC to the TV. If you're keeping it to 720p or lower, you'll probably be OK with a quad core.

Just about any HDD will be able to serve up simultaneous video streams. Just get as big as you can affor and rather than get an SSD, get a faster CPU. Shouldn't be a lot of opening and closing of files with an HTPC, just boot-up and starting the server software. Don't forget redundancy if your media is difficult to replace due to loss or failure.

 

[Arkitekt]

Thanks for the input guys

As for transcoding, I doubt I will ever do anything like, at the most it would be like TVersity transcoding to .avi, or Plex transcoding to a format it can play on the Roku (chances are most of the media will be .avi .mp4 or .mkv, and won't be bigger than 4 or 5 gigs, most often it will be under 2)

As for HDD, I have decided to go with a WD Green, I just haven't decided on size yet, either 1, 1.5, or 2.

The CPU definitely seems to be the hardest decision to nail down, I have most everything else already picked out. I keep hearing arguments from both sides, that Intel is better at processing, and that AMD is better at graphical display. AMD is cheaper which is nice for me being on a budget, I just don't know what level of CPU I should be looking at.

Right now I stream movies from my Ubuntu netbook using Ushare or my from W7 laptop through Zune to my Xbox 360. Main purpose of HTPC is to replace that function and just play the media directly on my TV, as well as stream to other tv's. This is mainly because I am getting tired of having to change the format or container of the media due to Zune not recognizing it, or because Ushare streams it very very choppy (although this wasn't always the case, only recently has it become unbearable)

 

[smitbret]

The TVersity/Plex transcoding is exactly why you need the faster CPU. What makes that type of software useful is that you don't have to worry about containers or codecs and the software does it automatically, at the expense of CPU cycles. If your CPU can't transcode at least 24fps (or more, depending on source) then you can't watch it while it's being transcoded. Regardless of file size, converting HD media is intensive. Don't pick the CPU based on graphics. They'll all playback your video just fine.

 

[Arkitekt]

The TVersity/Plex transcoding is exactly why you need the faster CPU. What makes that type of software useful is that you don't have to worry about containers or codecs and the software does it automatically, at the expense of CPU cycles. If your CPU can't transcode at least 24fps (or more, depending on source) then you can't watch it while it's being transcoded. Regardless of file size, converting HD media is intensive. Don't pick the CPU based on graphics. They'll all playback your video just fine.

What would be the minimum CPU I should get then in that case?

 

[Durvelle27]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fusion-intel-core-i3_6.html#sect0

 

[Arkitekt]

Thanks for the information

Gotta say, kinda confused at this point, so much information to take in.

I think I might be able to stretch the budget up to a A6-3650 or an A8-3850, both are quad-cores, or at most to an i3-2100. The G850 is better priced for my budget though.

 

[Durvelle27]

whats your full budget ?

 

[Binky]

The lower end intel chips are stronger CPU's. The more powerful video in the AMD is somewhat irrelevant for a pure HTPC. With no gaming, the intel seems like an easy choice.

 

[Arkitekt]

I would like to keep it around or below $500, not including OS, or shipping costs (I am in Canada)

This is what I have so far:

CASE: SilverStone Micro ATX Media Center/HTPC Case ML03B (Black) $50

RAM: G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL Ripjaws PC3-12800 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 $27

PSU: Cooler Master Elite Power 400W $35 (needs to be 140mm deep due to case restrictions

SSD Crucial m4 64GB SATA III $70
or this if it is still on sale:
Intel 330 Series Maple Crest SSDSC2CT060A3K5 2.5" 60GB SATA III $65

HDD WD Green (WD10EZRX) 1TB SATA3 6Gb/s 64MB $90

I wasn't sure if the CPU stock cooler would be sufficient enough or quiet enough so I was thinking of this possibly:
COOLER MASTER GeminII M4 $36

Was looking at adding 2 - 4 quiet case fans as well (not sure if they are totally needed though)
COOLER MASTER R4-S8R-20AK-GP 80mm Case Fan $6 each.

Was also thinking that a remote like this would be good to have with the HTPC build:
Rosewill RRC-126 Windows 7 Certified Media Center Infrared Remote Control with Netflix Function $30

SSD is for OS and associated programs, HDD will be solely for storing media. I could even get away with a 750gb HDD, the 1TB wasn't a whole lot more.
For Motherboard, I am looking at either a H77M or a A75M depending on CPU decision.

I am sitting at $272 without any accessories or the CPU/MOBO. $350 if I get the aftermarket cooler, 2 case fans, and the IR remote. Not included in this budget is 2 $80 Roku 2 XD's that I will be getting too, which is why I would like try and get this build under $500 before shipping/taxes.


Edit: For Intel I was looking at this Mobo:
ASRock H77M LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel $10

Couldn't find a mobo for cheaper that had HDMI, was mATX, and had USB3.0 headers and a CIR header

and either of these CPU's (not sure which is better, the 860 is slightly cheaper)
Intel Pentium G860 Sandy Bridge 3.0GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics
or
Intel Pentium G850 Sandy Bridge 2.9GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000
Both CPU's would cost me $90

If I go for the G850, would I have to step down the RAM from 1600 to 1333 due to the CPU? or keep it in case I upgrade to an Ivy Bridge in the future?

 

[smitbret]

If you aren't going to be transcoding anything more than 480p media (DVD Rips, nothing HD) then either the G860 or G850 will be fine.

If you are going to be doing any HD lite stuff (720p) I would pick up:

AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with AMD Radeon HD 6550D
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103942


and

ASRock A55M-HVS FM1 AMD A55 (Hudson D2)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157277

If the PassMark Benchmarks are accurate at all, the Quad-Core AMD will be about 35% faster than those Sandy Bridge CPUs for transcoding and will set you back about $155 for the combo. It should transcode any 720p or 1080i media at just about any quality setting in real time. It will probably choke at transcoding 1080p, though.

 

[Aikouka]

Do any of them provide fanless options? I would really prefer a Windows solution instead of my ATV2, but there's no way I'm going to deal with a fan running all the time in my room. I don't do any transcoding.

I think the only thing that would match what I want is Atom or ION.

 

[Arkitekt]

If you aren't going to be transcoding anything more than 480p media (DVD Rips, nothing HD) then either the G860 or G850 will be fine.

I would say 95-98% of the media to be streamed would just be dvd and tv rips. TV rips might be the only thing that was ever in 720p. Any of the 1080p media will most likely always played on the HDTV which the HTPC will be connected to. The kid's tv is SD and our TV downstairs can handle up to 720p. I was only thinking about transcoding in the case that Plex could not play the media format on the Roku 2 XD. I am unsure what formats it is capable of directly streaming, it it can handle all of the popular formats then I don't think it will ever have to transcode for streaming.

I would think though that it would have to transcode when streaming to other devices such as tablets or smartphones. If I go AMD route, I think the A8-3850 is a good price, however I was wanting the A75M chipset to take advantage of the USB3.0 in the case, as well as the faster transfer rates of SATAIII in both the SSD and HDD. What would be a comparable Intel chip to the A8-3850? and would I need a discrete video card?

Edit: Apparently, according to Elan Feingold, the Plex Roku app can directly stream H.264, all it might have to do is remux into a container Roku understands. Would this be as CPU intensive as transcoding?

 

[smitbret]

As long as the video files are h264 enbcoded .mp4 files you'll be fine. But it looks like it doesn't support playback of .mkv, .vob, .m2ts, .flv .mpg or .avi files. Someone correct me if that's wrong, I just took a cursory cruise through Google to look it up. If that's the case, you'll need to transcode those. If anyone has any personal experience with local streaming to the Roku, that would be awesome.

 

[smitbret]

As long as the video files are h264 enbcoded .mp4 files you'll be fine. But it looks like it doesn't support playback of .mkv, .vob, .m2ts, .flv .mpg or .avi files. Someone correct me if that's wrong, I just took a cursory cruise through Google to look it up. If that's the case, you'll need to transcode those. If anyone has any personal experience with local streaming to the Roku, that would be awesome.

 

[Arkitekt]

As long as the video files are h264 enbcoded .mp4 files you'll be fine. But it looks like it doesn't support playback of .mkv, .vob, .m2ts, .flv .mpg or .avi files. Someone correct me if that's wrong, I just took a cursory cruise through Google to look it up. If that's the case, you'll need to transcode those. If anyone has any personal experience with local streaming to the Roku, that would be awesome.

Yeah, I can't find much information on it. What I did find was referring to what the USB Media Player channel could support.

http://support.roku.com/entries/202...s-the-roku-2-usb-media-player-channel-support

So I guess my options would be to find a streaming solution for my other TV's that are as cheap as a Roku 2 XD that doesn't require transcoding...

Or beef up the processor to a Quad Core. The AMD quad cores are significantly cheaper than the Intel ones, so I will probably go that route. Or would an Intel i3-2100 or 2120 with 4 threads do the job as well?

At 100w though would the aftermarker cooler and case fans be a good addition to reduce the heat inside the case?

 

[Binky]

There's an xbitlabs link in this thread that shows quicksync performance with the i3-2120+. Look there.