Intels Larrabee Discreet Graphics croaked

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Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
2,495
0
0
Ahh, I see. Back in 2008, I read that Nvidia was ready with an x86 CUDA compiler I didn't care to follow up but did it ever happen?

The Cuda SDK comes with a Cuda compiler for x86. This way you can test the code on an x86 CPU for debugging purposes, or when you want to run code on a machine without Cuda hardware.
 

at80eighty

Senior member
Jun 28, 2004
458
5
81
I used to say this but will repeat: Intel never really wanted Larrabee to take off. They wanted to generate just enough buzz of it to kill/slow the development of GPGPU such as CUDA and OpenCL. Only thing that's amusing to me is how it played out on gullible journalists.


I can see the Financial Times article right now - Larrabee: The Gengis Khan of the GPGPU world
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Intel need to move beyond x86. Whats interesting is that ATI/NVIDIA GPU's are able to execute x86 faster than Intel's CPU's and we are not talking 30%-40%, we are talking many magnitudes faster.

Isnt that what Itanium was supposed to do? A VLIW arch that utilizes compilers to optimize performance? I dont know that arch of Itanium that well. But it appears at least on some level to be close to what GPUs do from a compiler standpoint. Compilers can make or break the arch.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
x86 are very good at branching, like most other CPUs.
GPUs do NOT branch, that's the whole point.
When a branch occurs in code, the GPU will simply run both sides of the branch and disable the results of the branch that was not taken.
So it's implemented as a masking operation, rather than an actual branch.
The effect is that the paralellism goes down (it's still SIMD, so all threads have to execute the exact same instruction).
x86 is way different, as each core has its independent instruction pipeline and can branch completely independently from each other core.
I think you missed Ben's point. All of that is a product of the architecture, not the instruction set. If someone was crazy enough they could build a similar chip that handled CUDA instructions just as well.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Were does it say Intel has killed Larrabee.

Why Nemesis, you wouldn't suppose website that profit by page-hit count would embellish/sensationalize the truth and make some snazzy headlines followed by nothing but speculation...would you? Impossible! Never happens!
 

Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
2,495
0
0
I think you missed Ben's point. All of that is a product of the architecture, not the instruction set. If someone was crazy enough they could build a similar chip that handled CUDA instructions just as well.

The current GPUs don't HAVE branches in their instructionsets, that's the whole point.
Just like the SIMD-extensions on x86 don't have branches either.
x86 has regular scalar ALU and FPU functionality though. GPUs don't.

With GPUs there really isn't 'an instructionset' in the first place. Cuda is not an instructionset. Cuda is an architecture. Different generations of nVidia hardware have different instructionsets.
GPUs aren't bound by instructionsets, because unlike x86, there is no legacy of binary-only applications. With GPUs everything is compiled on-the-fly, so the actual instructionset doesn't matter. It is handled by the compiler in the GPU driver.

I don't think anything will ever be bound by an instructionset anymore either. Bytecode solutions such as Java and .NET (and DirectX for GPUs) or open source/scripting languages make the underlying instructionset pretty much irrelevant.
 

faxon

Platinum Member
May 23, 2008
2,109
1
81
yea i have a cypress based milkyway@home farm here which begs to differ. you have to buy 58xx chips if you wanna do milkyway on the gpu because ATI only supports DP on their highest end architecture. fermi is the only product out (that i know of) which can do GPU based IEEE DP, but that doesnt mean there arent other cards out that can do DP FP ops of some type. G80, G92, GT200 and RV770/740 based products all also have some form of DP
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
yea i have a cypress based milkyway@home farm here which begs to differ. you have to buy 58xx chips if you wanna do milkyway on the gpu because ATI only supports DP on their highest end architecture. fermi is the only product out (that i know of) which can do GPU based IEEE DP, but that doesnt mean there arent other cards out that can do DP FP ops of some type. G80, G92, GT200 and RV770/740 based products all also have some form of DP

thank you for the correction.
 

Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
2,495
0
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Aren't all GPUs single precision only?

No, nVidia added double precision in the GTX200-series.
AMD has double precision in the 5800-series aswell.
The main difference with Fermi is that double precision is far more powerful.
Double precision is 'only' half as fast as single precision, much like on conventional CPUs.
The AMD and older nVidia architectures are closer to 1/5th the performance of single precision.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,232
5,807
126
yea i have a cypress based milkyway@home farm here which begs to differ. you have to buy 58xx chips if you wanna do milkyway on the gpu because ATI only supports DP on their highest end architecture. fermi is the only product out (that i know of) which can do GPU based IEEE DP, but that doesnt mean there arent other cards out that can do DP FP ops of some type. G80, G92, GT200 and RV770/740 based products all also have some form of DP

I'm confused, doing Milkway@Home on a 4850 and have at times received no WUs because they were for Nvidia Vidcards only.
 

faxon

Platinum Member
May 23, 2008
2,109
1
81
I'm confused, doing Milkway@Home on a 4850 and have at times received no WUs because they were for Nvidia Vidcards only.
the ATI client is relatively recent from what i understand. the way i heard it was that some ATI engineers were doing some side work on the project, so they coded a GPU app for it with the guys at RPI directly in stream (ATI's own GPGPU API) to allow RV670 770/740 and 870 to all run the work units on a GPU. ATI is actually faster than NV for milkyway@home to boot. http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/team_members.php?teamid=77&offset=0&sort_by=expavg_credit look at the team standings since i joined, that's 3 5870s going more or less 24/7 (with some hiccups) since i joined, and my recent average credit is still going up rather quickly. getting another 5870 next week for my birthday as well

ed: i should note i have no evidence which specifically says who was behind the ATI GPU client for milkyway, but given it's performance i wouldnt be surprised if some of ATI's engineers were helping. you should be able to run all the WUs on your 4850 now, about one every four minutes (vs my 5870's 1:25 per card). in comparison, it takes my 4.2ghz cpu cores about 4-5 hours a WU per core, sometimes longer. i think when they first started using the ATI client they were still reworking their work distribution software so that they could effectively use the ATI gpu influx. i have never been down for any reason thus far with my cluster due to lack of WUs for the GPUs
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,232
5,807
126
the ATI client is relatively recent from what i understand. the way i heard it was that some ATI engineers were doing some side work on the project, so they coded a GPU app for it with the guys at RPI directly in stream (ATI's own GPGPU API) to allow RV670 770/740 and 870 to all run the work units on a GPU. ATI is actually faster than NV for milkyway@home to boot. http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/team_members.php?teamid=77&offset=0&sort_by=expavg_credit look at the team standings since i joined, that's 3 5870s going more or less 24/7 (with some hiccups) since i joined, and my recent average credit is still going up rather quickly. getting another 5870 next week for my birthday as well

ed: i should note i have no evidence which specifically says who was behind the ATI GPU client for milkyway, but given it's performance i wouldnt be surprised if some of ATI's engineers were helping. you should be able to run all the WUs on your 4850 now, about one every four minutes (vs my 5870's 1:25 per card). in comparison, it takes my 4.2ghz cpu cores about 4-5 hours a WU per core, sometimes longer. i think when they first started using the ATI client they were still reworking their work distribution software so that they could effectively use the ATI gpu influx. i have never been down for any reason thus far with my cluster due to lack of WUs for the GPUs

Yup, 4 minutes is about what I'm getting.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0

Whats so interesting About it . Tom denying Larrabee is canned. or is it the fact that Intel never said Larrabee was canned . Show me were anyone from Intel has made such a statement. Short term does not mean canned . It means Short term Intel will adderess the HPC market first . Thats all have gotten from any of this .

So if someone has a link to Intel canning LRB lets see the links.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
apparently you can't read either, Nemesis

this thread is about Larrabee the GPU dying, not Larrabee the HPC chip

There's simply no way intel can compete with AMD or nVidia's specialized architecture with what they were trying to do with Larrabee. Maybe they'll have something once we get a revolution in the graphics API department, whether it be something like ray tracing or unlimited point cloud, but until then there's just no way.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
apparently you can't read either, Nemesis

this thread is about Larrabee the GPU dying, not Larrabee the HPC chip

There's simply no way intel can compete with AMD or nVidia's specialized architecture with what they were trying to do with Larrabee. Maybe they'll have something once we get a revolution in the graphics API department, whether it be something like ray tracing or unlimited point cloud, but until then there's just no way.

Bs . NO ONE SAID LRB GPU is cancled NO one FROM intel . If you have an intel statement saying so lets see it . Your just one of many that want to See lrb fail . Wish it all you want . But Until Intel says its canned Its ALIVE. If you have no links to back this BS up. Thats what it is BS . Next week we'll here more on the HPC part . I personally think Intel doing it right get the software running . Than bring the hardware .
 
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