Possibly but I was two bottles deep into a vintage rioja.
Possibly but I was two bottles deep into a vintage rioja.I'm assuming that this is a literary reference that went over my head?
Yeah, I also want to note that the odds Intel regains it's old position are almost certainly 0. It will not happen. It cannot structurally happen due to the demand for compute and the revival of the only other (VIA excluded) firm with an X86 license, foundry costs (which Intel previously got around and was able to use vertical integration to their advantage, but fixed costs are too high now), and worse yet, the growth of mobile and slow death of the X86 stronghold on general purpose compute.It's not like that at all. SVE's point is that it is designed in such a way that you can run the exact same codepath on CPUs with wildly different vector lengths, and other than running a different amount of iterations, get the same result.
AVX10 256/512 are not like that at all, the only convenience is that you can easily query for vector length, everything else is the job of the developer (or, more likely, the compiler). They are deranged if they think most devs are going to emit code that does anything other than supports some minimal common subset.
This is effectively giving up on the 64-byte vector length for client CPUs, while retaining the predication and other useful features of AVX-512. I am mildly disappointed, but really, the wide vectors were the least interesting and important part of AVX-512 anyway. A world with AVX10.2 256-bit is still much, much better than AVX2, and if they now start supporting it across the product line and do so consistently, then after about a decade, consumer stuff can finally start targeting it.
Also look at the liabilities column. They have the most cash on hand and highest assets ever, because they took $11B of long-term debt last quarter, and are sitting on most of the cash. (This is not a criticism of this action, it was actually quite shrewd of them, as their ability to loan money at decent terms might be worse in the future, so might as well take out all the debt now and park it in treasuries until it's needed.)
Also total assets is not a good measure of a healthy company, because a lot of assets are very illiquid and might not be worth nearly as much as their book value if they had to be sold, and in the meantime they are just burning capital through depreciation.
I'm not an Intel doomer. I think there are a lot of smart people there, including people I know personally, and many of them are working really hard to turn the ship around and fix their problems. But it's really deluded to look at Intel's current financials and think that they are a healthy company. They really, really aren't. They have tens of billions of dollars invested in old, depreciating assets, their current product line is nowhere near good enough to regain their old position, and their manufacturing, the old crown jewel of the company, is still either lagging or at least hasn't proven it has caught up to the competition.
Woah there with the shovel I think they're buried already 😂Maybe if ET hands them alien technology they can manufacture at scale, or Apple and AMD cave in overnight, TSMC and Samsung and their American facilities are hit by missiles, Arm folds, AND Intel decides IFS isn't for them after that and they want full vertical integration back - then yea, maaaybe we could return to the previous state.
Worst struggle in history=second highest amount of money they had in the last 12 years...(and highest total assets EVER)
Maybe you should explain what you consider struggle for a capitalistic company that is trying to make money.
No meaningful amount of people because of an ISA checkmark on a specs sheet. Rocket Lake was a failure despite having AVX512, and Alder Lake did well without it. Nor has there been some spike in Zen 4 adoption because of AVX either. Likewise for Skylake-X, and even Haswell if you go far enough back.Great sales are usually dependent on the average dope that knows next to nothing about PC hardware and can easily be led around by the nose by sales staff in retail.
Said average consumer would probably not even notice that AVX512 was gone (if they even knew it was there in previous generations), but the more discerning enthusiasts would and hesitate to buy as a result.
Also I would argue that with the sheer effort over years they put into pushing AVX512 software development that they still definitely shot themselves in the foot - now when they introduce new instruction sets devs are going to be significantly more gunshy about implementing them without monetary compensation from Intel directly to that effect.
People buy all sorts of products for different reasons - CPUs and other PC hardware included.People buy CPUs based on how they perform in their workloads
Sure, there might be some handful of people who want specific ISA available to play around with, or who have a use case disproportionately affected by certain ISA (e.g. emulation). But those sales do not meaningfully contribute to the bottom line, nor do they factor into product design. I'm reminded of this XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1172/People buy all sorts of products for different reasons - CPUs and other PC hardware included.
Not what I meant - your assertion was that sales are purely driven by performance in a given workload or workloads.Sure, there might be some handful of people who want specific ISA available to play around with, or who have a use case disproportionately affected by certain ISA (e.g. emulation)
I think we're on the same page. I acknowledge that people can have all sorts of niche reasons to buy a product, both logical and illogical; I just don't think those contribute meaningful numbers of sales. Heck, even on this forum, for how many people do you think ISA is a first order determinant?Not what I meant - your assertion was that sales are purely driven by performance in a given workload or workloads.
Mine was that even enthusiasts can buy stuff for dumb reasons and that those numbers are probably not as insignificant as you might like to think they are 😅
ISA in what sense?for how many people do you think ISA is a first order determinant?
Yeah, meant in that context. Like, the kind of ISA extensions that're a performance difference, more than a compatibility one.ISA in what sense?
When I see ISA I think x86/ARM/RISC-V.
Or do you mean the instruction set extensions?
The greatest irony is that probably out of all software easily accessible it's likely that Intel's own code like Embree and the SVT codecs have the most AVX512 code 😂Like, the kind of ISA extensions that're a performance difference, more than a compatibility one
I know nothing, but this seems like a mess.
Makes me think that Intel should go to AMD and discuss developing together a new architecture with sane vector instructions.
The current ones are perfectly sane. technical debt accrues over time, that happens in any product. unless you explicitly drop support for old features. The only real miss-step is AVX-512 not aligning to intel's actual plans.I know nothing, but this seems like a mess.
Makes me think that Intel should go to AMD and discuss developing together a new architecture with sane vector instructions.
It's a meme at this point.Genuine Question: How does every topic on this forum seemingly always pivot to talking about how dead Intel is / will be?
This was ostensibly about ISA expansion at one point.
Market share of AMD fell back to normal immediately after the pandemic, sure server is the highest it ever was for amd but it's still low enough for it to be a non issue for intel.I don't know what he was thinking, but I think they are struggling since they have lost more marketshare, especially in servers than ever. And the layoffs. If you adjust those numbers for inflation, I am sure it will also change the picture. But marketshare affects future income.
Perspective...the debt increase is pretty small compared to other times, and especially during a time that they build FABs like nobodies' business having such a low increase in debt is pretty impressive.That's pretty hilarious argument, maybe you should look at their long-term debt as it was mentioned already:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/long-term-debt
Changes in how a CPU works can affect how well a CPU is perceived which can affect sales which does affect how well a company does.Genuine Question: How does every topic on this forum seemingly always pivot to talking about how dead Intel is / will be?
This was ostensibly about ISA expansion at one point.
Frankly, anyone conflating the technical merits of an ISA with its success in the market has not learned from history. People have been complaining about x86 for literal decades at this point. Has not stopped it from being one of, if not the most commercially successful ISAs around. We see some of this same discussion both for and against RISC-V today. The success or failure of an ISA is about the business model and performance of the companies behind it far more than any technical merit.Changes in how a CPU works can affect how well a CPU is perceived which can affect sales which does affect how well a company does.
TL;DR
Terrible ISA = dead company.
what was tacitly an X86 monopoly given AMD poor performance since about 2000 or whatever and especially since Nehalem.
Perspective...the debt increase is pretty small compared to other times, and especially during a time that they build FABs like nobodies' business having such a low increase in debt is pretty impressive.
Changes in how a CPU works can affect how well a CPU is perceived which can affect sales which does affect how well a company does.
TL;DR
Terrible ISA = dead company.
The issue is that their revenue is in the dumps, despite having such a high market share, AKA = their ASP is low because they are competing with AMD. Last quarter, they had a gross profit of $4B. The company is structured around gross profits of $9B+. The last time their opex was below $4B was in 2011. Unless they dramatically increase profit, they will need to lay off about a third of the company. On top of the layoffs they have already had.Market share of AMD fell back to normal immediately after the pandemic, sure server is the highest it ever was for amd but it's still low enough for it to be a non issue for intel.
Yes, it is not bad to take debt. But the issue is, you were crowing about them having a lot of cash on hand, while the only reason that happened was that they took a lot of debt. They lost a lot of money in the business, and then took debt to maintain cash levels.Perspective...the debt increase is pretty small compared to other times, and especially during a time that they build FABs like nobodies' business having such a low increase in debt is pretty impressive.
The reality is that 99+% of users would benefit from APX real soon after it is out and they've got hw. Don't forget that most people only browse web and watch videos and it would only take browser vendor to improve their JS VM and code generation and push update.
They have already insane JS optimizers that would really love additional registers and some of those new instructions.
Sir, i bet you composed this forum post on ZX Spectrum, right? Not much else to say about the rest of Your post.And why does that matter, other than higher scores in the "how fast is your browser" thread?