Intel's Pretty Much Screwed.

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Seriously, AMD is making a lot of profits. If they would start advertising they could make even more money and then open another fab plant to double production. Why aren't they advertising?

-Kevin

AMD has never made lot of profits even now. They have a bad habit of losing money and could in the future if their flash business takes a beating like it has in the past.

AMD is building another plant in Germany. They got more tax breaks, grants, and loans from the German govt to subsidize the cost of building another fab.

As far as advertising heavily, AMD has to be careful where it spends its previous few dollars. I rather they spent the money on R&D anyways.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Seriously, AMD is making a lot of profits. If they would start advertising they could make even more money and then open another fab plant to double production. Why aren't they advertising?

-Kevin

AMD has never made lot of profits even now. They have a bad habit of losing money and could in the future if their flash business takes a beating like it has in the past.

AMD is building another plant in Germany. They got more tax breaks, grants, and loans from the German govt to subsidize the cost of building another fab.

As far as advertising heavily, AMD has to be careful where it spends its previous few dollars. I rather they spent the money on R&D anyways.

I agree. Their product speaks for itself. People actually know what AMD is now, whereas two years ago this was not the case. That is not because of advertising, but because they are starting to put out a superior product.

AMD is now generally the chip that the layman's friend owns. "Yeah I have a P4 but my buddy has and AMD 64 Athlon XP something" is the general vibe I hear from people.

Better AMD spends money on keeping up their sucess with A64 (and beyond) than trying to get people to recognize AMD as a brand with lavish ad capaigns. They are dealing with a household named company, Intel, and if AMD dumps their sparse funds on advertising rather than R&D they will be 'the second best company' versus the underground #1.

 

[gsethi]

Intel is no where screwed. Some of my cousins work in the IT industry and they refuse to go with AMD systems. However, I on the other hand always goes for the best bang for the buck. Recently, couple of my cousins asked my recommendation for a new system and i suggested them AMD. Turns out that they still went out and bought the P4 setup. No matter what great benefits i told them about AMD, they wouldnt touch AMD with a 10 foot pole and they all work in the IT industry (programmer, admin, etc).

Moreover, in all their companies, they use Intel systems (Dell, Compaq - all intel solutions for workstations). Home Users/Consumer market is a very small share of the Computer industry. Its the corporate market that matters and thats what Intel owns. Intel could just rename their current celeron systems to P4 and these corporates will just purchase them.

Its just like when you go out to buy an OS, most ppl say Windows instead of Linux. Its the same thing with CPUs, most people will purchase Intel no matter what AMD has. It will takes years of advertising and realeasing better products than Intel for AMD to come out and for all of us to say "Intel is screwed". As of right now, Intel is still in very good position and they are very far from screwed.

and for all of us, they just need to come out with one good chip is the next year or so and they will be back up and amd will be back where it was in those AMD-K6 days. But i still hope that AMD continues up the good work and keeps provding us with good chips and provide competition to Intel as it helps keeps the prices down for all of us.

What AMD needs to come out with to boost its profits is AMD's own chipsets for its CPUs. Intel makes their own chipsets and they also make profits there. If AMD can make efficient chipsets for their CPUs, thats another source of income for them and will increase their market share even further. nVidia has helped AMD increase its market share with AXP line and they need to continue to do so. Via, on the other hand, i have heard many horrer stories about them and i know many people who would never purchase a VIA board, no matter how good it performs after those horrible chipsets in the P3 days. However, lately they are coming back with good chipsets (Kt266, Kt300) helped them a lot to come back in the chipset industry.

remember, CPU market is not like the graphics card market. Its completly different.

 

[clarkey01]

Zenwhen

?THEY DON'T HAVE TO.


Get a grip on reality, PLEASE. The average consumer doesn't know AMD exists.?


First off I never said they had to, but despite Intels size, funds and strength there are lagging even if so by only a few points, but they have been slow and reluctant on recent trends.

This does not to seem be the Intel we all know, I would like to bring up some pointers.

They laughed at AMD for the idea of the 64bit extensions and going public by saying ? Not needed till 08 etc and its stupid? while reverse engineering the thing in labs, only for them to say ? Me too?. The attitude of an Intel engineer when it comes to Mhz matter is shown in this interview here :

?http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_001a.html

Q:Many wonder why AMD?s line of processors are theoretically so much slower when comparing processor speed (MHz) yet are able to get so much more performance clock for clock. We know what AMD?s views are but how does Intel explain the disparity?

A:As I mentioned, in the age old ?speed demon? vs. ?braniac? CPU architecture debate, going the speed demon route has often been found to be the right way to deliver the highest performance to end users. And I think the industry now realizes why we lengthened our CPU pipeline to go that way. Our competition says MHz doesn?t matter. Do you think they really feel that way??


Intel also said AMD?s adoption of a numbering system was to hide up for the fact they could not ramp up speeds as quickly or aswell as Intel could. Well when your pipeline is 31 stages Vs a 12 stage pipeline its not hard to figure out why, but anyone with any sense of technical knowledge will know the k7/k8 will have a higher IPC hence why they ?don?t need to ramp up as quickly?. It wouldn?t be wise for AMD if the put out a 2.6Ghz part and put it against the 2.8C or the 2.53B ?, the 3.4 EE takes a beating as it is. Recently Intel also said there was no need for hyper transport?..Sure, the 533 FSB on Xeon is plenty, Jesus it?s the bottleneck for going up from 2 way and upwards.

The Inq also noted that Intel laughed off the idea of dual core when IBM brought them to the table, but now after the cancellation of Tejas, Nehalem its ? Yeah we knew all along, its been on our roadmaps for some time, we?re ahead?. Yep you sure are?..?Cough-Fake-Cough-Dual-core-Cough-demonstation-cough?

Then they have the cheek to come out and say ? Its going to hard for our competitors to follow us? sure , if they mean go back on nearly everything they say and act all holier then thou. If AMD can run FAB 30 and FAB 36 simultaneously they?ll have quite a bit of capacity for say 40% market share, please remember FAB 30 alone has the capacity of about two Intel fabs. Intel seem to be seeing stars at the moment, a little shaky and slow to the call, AMD need to ramp and advertise( its either now or never), AMD do mess up and I own both Intel and AMD rigs (2000 xp, 2.8c). I am not a fan boy by any accounts, I slated AMD for the 3200 xp and the 4000+ numbering which didn?t and wont stand up to equivalent Pentiums.

 

[Steeplerot]

Someone said awhile back that Compaq (or was it hp) does not have AMD parts in them .
Not true, I work in retail in techshop and upgrades I deal with this day to day and fix a lot of average peoples PCs for them
I feel the average spyware ridden virus scanner bloatware loaded AMD pcs feel more responsive.
No doubt the Intel/Dell/Compaqs/hp/toshiba When new are snappier feeling but when it comes down to real use I would much rather
work on a AMD cpu. I'm seeing super-budget compaqs with XP3200's in them.
Those are NICE pc's for average user snappier then the celeron or non dual channeled memory starved P4's the average user seems to get.
Time and time again I hear "freezing up on the web or when busy" from the Intel boxes. Overheating on the newer ones.
Im so sick of preshott repairs. (A lot of RMA cpus for heat which means I gotta tell my customers I have to keep PC for a week or so.
I very rarely hear performance complaints from the AMD boxes. I have older boxes come in with like 1500's and they ask for a upgrade chip! Really old ladies even!
Asking for 2200+ and such for these old 133 fsb boards lol.
The intel boxes I hear are "Slow now that it is getting a few years old, where is the computer aisle so I can get more more mhz?" -A real quote from someone with a rambus P4 hehe
The really OLD ones I see people bring in totally dust filled but still truckin are the K6-2s and first athlons (socket A 600mhz or so) and old celerons took a beating and kept at it also. That was a good chip it seems to have lasted and running windowsXP fine. (PIII era ones.)
My judgement every day of a decent PC when dealing with these retail boxen is how long I gotta sit there while I install their wireless drivers etc
for them and wait for windoze to do its thing or get around here trying to find out what they/spyware screwed up or fixing normal crap people do to their boxes like upgrade add stuff.
This is all my opinion as a repair shop guy at a big retail chain in a big city but I see a LOT more poeple asking for A64s in my retail parts. Builders even in my large retail chain that are a lot less informed then peeps here mostly want to see my A64 selection and when nforce4 is coming with dual pci-x cmon nvidia!
I have people coming in to buy 6800 Ultras but dont want the one you can only have 1 of.
It sucks to tell them there is no mobo anyway yet for the pci-x ones I do not have. 500 dollar video card sales=more food on my table

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: everydae

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy
Intel's 90nm run way too hot and can barely pull a 10-15% OC

Dude, you should not pretend you are an Intel user.

XP-120 Review Well, it's XP-120 review, but sure you will get some *right* information. Even with noisy and useless stock HSF, it only goes 52 under load. Lanparty 875P-T Review It's LANParty 875P-T, the newest mobo from DFI with 875P and LGA775, review. The tester could pull up to FSB257 (4.1G) out of 3.2E with *stock HSF*. It's about 28% OC. Also, just search the forum. You will find pretty many people who could reach FSB250 (3.75G) out of 3.0E, which is 25% OC. Of course, not great as 90nm Athlon64 tested by Anand, but still pretty decent. And most of all, far away from your wrong belief.

He was being a little harsh. But I AM an intel user, and prescotts suck ass.

 

[gwag]

AMD did sponser the US postal service cycling team wich sould have got them tons of european exposer this year.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: gwag
AMD did sponser the US postal service cycling team wich sould have got them tons of european exposer this year.

Who?

Im from the UK and never heard anything like that. They sponsored Blackburn Rovers.... not exactly a great idea. Even though they are in possibly the best Football League going (The Premiership) but they arent a large team. They arent even in Europe to get more exposure to fans. If they sponsored or tried to sponsor at least a team capable of entering into Europe in the footballing world, they'd get a load more exposure.

The Premiership is watched and loved by many the world over but European competitions allow for much more exposure to people. Japan probably has more English Football fans then Japanese Football fans, its ridiculous.

 

[Skypix7]

Great post Steeplerot! That's really valuable real-world news and should shake up some misconceptions on this thread.

Elcs, I was just shooting the REno Air Races last month and AMD had a huge booth there showing off all their latest gaming rigs...it was the most impressive and big-bucks display at the Races, alongside Red Bull which runs it's own Extreme Air Race (like they do with skiing, hang gliding, bike racing etc.) within the Reno shindig. In fact, I think AMD was in cahoots with Red Bull so look for a lot more AMD prime time exposure...somebody there seems to be getting the idea that image is what it's all about.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Yep but Intel is like Microsoft and AMD is like Linux. The savvy know but grandma has the blow and she loves Wintel

i.e. Wintel is alive and quite healthy and AMD has 15% of market and not enough FAB capacity to get above 25-30% even if they wanted to. Until the Dresden FAB comes online that is but Intel should be recovered by then (well maybe).

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
Yep but Intel is like Microsoft and AMD is like Linux. The savvy know but grandma has the blow and she loves Wintel

i.e. Wintel is alive and quite healthy and AMD has 15% of market and not enough FAB capacity to get above 25-30% even if they wanted to. Until the Dresden FAB comes online that is but Intel should be recovered by then (well maybe).

Does Linux run every new game on every piece of hardware out there?

I see the analogy in percentages (maybe 5 years ago) but they are not the same thing. Microsoft has ~90% of the OS market. Intel has ~75% of the CPU market.

More importantly, AMD's CPU's can do basically everything Intel's CPU's can. Linux cannot run everything Winblowz can, unfortunately .

 

[The_Lurker]

I thikn out of everything there though, Intel has one thing going for it that's going to keep it around for a few years yet, and that's market acceptance. If you ask my friends, 99% of them would go Intel just because of the name. If you ask random ppl on the street, and you mention Pentium or Intel, they'll go o yeah, I got one of those in my computer. If you mention AMD or Athlon, most of them would be like wha?

I had a conversation with my work colleague who said AMD's basically for overclocking, it's a poor mans chip that can overclock like stink, but I'd rather spend a little more for a nice stable guaranteed clock speed.

And that's what AMD has to shake if they want to gain more market shares, the perception that their a budget CPU company and that their CPU's are for people that want to overclock, and not for mainstream.

I Guess good thing is AMD's putting their CPU's into OEM's now (Compaq's, HP's namely) and that'll help gain some exposure with the average consumer.