Intel's restrictions on Atom - why?

[Idontcare]

I believe AMD has actually made public/official statements to the effect that they believe the computing experience on a netbook device is simply below acceptable minimum thresholds and that they aren't participating in that product segment because they believe a somewhat beefier (and non-netbook brand compliant) notebook is a better entry point for minimum performance.

That netbooks and atom came together really just goes to show the unstoppable ubiquity of x86, you could build something that gives you circa 2004 performance (or worse) but if it will run pre-existing applications (even at a snails pace) then there will be unparalleled demand for that product.

 

[ShawnD1]

Heh, and AMD Neo powered netbook running Linux would have none of these artificial induced restrictions and outperform the Atom easily.

Or you could just get a real laptop. According to that latest Anandtech article, my laptop's 1.6GHz Intel Celeron (purchased ~3 years ago for about $600) is faster than the latest Intel Atom. What an achievement. Want better battery life? Buy extra batteries.

Dell's US website has a $550 Inspiron 13 with a processor that is several times faster than an Atom. Money limitation is really the only reason anyone should buy an Atom since it's the equivalent of a used car with no back seats or muffler.

 

[Idontcare]

Or you could just get a real laptop. According to that latest Anandtech article, my laptop's 1.6GHz Intel Celeron (purchased ~3 years ago for about $600) is faster than the latest Intel Atom. What an achievement. Want better battery life? Buy extra batteries.

And what sucks about the battery life situation is that since these are supposed to be cheap low-cost products they cut back on the battery capacity of the netbooks anyways so you get a lighter and cheaper product but battery life is still wanting.

 

[Viperoni]

I actually run Win2k3 Server R2 x64 on my Intel board + Atom 330, works decently well. Even runs VMWare with a couple WinXP VM's reasonably well (not at the same time though).

Might be due in part to the fact that I have a Fujitsu 15krpm SCSI HD for the OS.

On the flipside, when I had the board in a regular PC with an 80gb Seagate 7200.10, it was a bit short on power for web browsing and the like (IMO).

I'd love to see the Atom 330 + Ion laptop running.

 

[TuxDave]

Or you could just get a real laptop. According to that latest Anandtech article, my laptop's 1.6GHz Intel Celeron (purchased ~3 years ago for about $600) is faster than the latest Intel Atom. What an achievement. Want better battery life? Buy extra batteries.

Dell's US website has a $550 Inspiron 13 with a processor that is several times faster than an Atom. Money limitation is really the only reason anyone should buy an Atom since it's the equivalent of a used car with no back seats or muffler.

I think you still don't get the market segment for a netbook. You should only consider it if you have your own computer and you want something light to take when you travel and you want it to be as cheap and as small as you can get it while still being able to do the basic stuff.

At least that's the reason why I have mine. I'm not gonna lug around extra batteries if I'm already interested in getting something that's as small as a netbook. If I wanted to carry batteries, I'd rather just get a regular notebook with an extended battery.

 

[romit]

Probably to avoid sabotaging their sales of low-end Core 2s. If there was more competition in the netbook processor market, they wouldn't be as able to pull stuff like this...but for now we're stuck with crappy tiny screens.....

 

[ShawnD1]

At least that's the reason why I have mine. I'm not gonna lug around extra batteries if I'm already interested in getting something that's as small as a netbook. If I wanted to carry batteries, I'd rather just get a regular notebook with an extended battery.

If you're traveling with a laptop, should I at least assume you're putting it in a bag? Why can't you put some batteries in that bag?

 

[lothar]

Interesting, so it is more a brand/trademark deal like Centrino was...with Centrino the laptop was required to have 3 of 3 components and not just the Intel centrino cpu at the time. Wifi was another requirement, memory is sketchy on the details but what you are saying about netbook reminds me so much of Centrino branding from years ago.

That's what I think Microsoft/Intel wants it to be.

I wasn't aware that there was an official standard.

So what's the official standard for "notebook"? And how many mfgs adhere to that standard?

I have no idea what the standard for a "notebook" is.

I believe AMD has actually made public/official statements to the effect that they believe the computing experience on a netbook device is simply below acceptable minimum thresholds and that they aren't participating in that product segment because they believe a somewhat beefier (and non-netbook brand compliant) notebook is a better entry point for minimum performance.

That netbooks and atom came together really just goes to show the unstoppable ubiquity of x86, you could build something that gives you circa 2004 performance (or worse) but if it will run pre-existing applications (even at a snails pace) then there will be unparalleled demand for that product.

I agree with AMD's official statement.
A netbook is for someone(AKA my mom and grandparents) who won't use a computer for anything besides browsing the web or Microsoft Word.
That said, guess what I got my mom? A $479 Dell notebook from Walmart.

Dell 15.6" Inspiron 1545 Laptop PC with a Mouse, Carrying case and 4GB USB flash drive
(Dell Green 15.6" Inspiron 1545 Laptop PC with Intel T4300 Processor & Windows 7 Home Premium)
Subtotal: $543
20% off Bing seen here (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2029500&highlight=walmart) knocked $108 off the price.

Final Price after 20% Bing: $434.40
Also note that if I didn't spend an extra $47 on accessories, I could have had it for less than $400 before tax.
Beats wasting money on any netbook out there, including the ones being sold on Newegg for $800+.
Most Netbooks are a ripoff, plain and simple.

 

[Fox5]

Or you could just get a real laptop. According to that latest Anandtech article, my laptop's 1.6GHz Intel Celeron (purchased ~3 years ago for about $600) is faster than the latest Intel Atom. What an achievement. Want better battery life? Buy extra batteries.

Dell's US website has a $550 Inspiron 13 with a processor that is several times faster than an Atom. Money limitation is really the only reason anyone should buy an Atom since it's the equivalent of a used car with no back seats or muffler.

The big deal of Atom (in my view) is that it offers a small and light-weight design with long battery life at appropriate prices. When ultraportables cost more than regular laptops yet offered much worse performance and features, no one ever questioned "why does the ultra portable market exist?"

At the time I got my X41Tablet (a bit over 4 years ago), it cost $1800, had a cpu at the bottom end of Intel's Pentium M platform, the intel IGP of the day, and a very slow and tiny hard drive. The same laptop would have been worth half the price in a more mainstream form factor.
Now, at least you can get a cheap atom system if you really need something portable. Though the higher end ones are really missing the point of atom, and that includes anything with ion. (atom devices really should be around $200 imo, the $400 to $600 ones are absolute travesties)

 

[Idontcare]

That said, guess what I got my mom? A $479 Dell notebook from Walmart.

Dell 15.6" Inspiron 1545 Laptop PC with a Mouse, Carrying case and 4GB USB flash drive
(Dell Green 15.6" Inspiron 1545 Laptop PC with Intel T4300 Processor & Windows 7 Home Premium)
Subtotal: $543
20% off Bing seen here (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2029500&highlight=walmart) knocked $108 off the price.

Final Price after 20% Bing: $434.40
Also note that if I didn't spend an extra $47 on accessories, I could have had it for less than $400 before tax.
Beats wasting money on any netbook out there, including the ones being sold on Newegg for $800+.
Most Netbooks are a ripoff, plain and simple.

Yep, typing this on my Inspiron 1525 (last year's $500 model) which serves me well for everything but the heavy lifting (have desktop for that). The amount of computer you can get for a few hundred bucks is crazy, definitely falls under the "good enough" category.

 

[TuxDave]

If you're traveling with a laptop, should I at least assume you're putting it in a bag? Why can't you put some batteries in that bag?

Because it's another thing I don't want to deal with? You don't really need a "laptop" bag anymore since it's so small. Just shove it anywhere. I don't even carry a mouse with me when I travel with my netbook. The netbook power cord however is a little more forgiving as it's nicely integrated into the plug and not a brick that I have to lug around.

 

[TuxDave]

(atom devices really should be around $200 imo, the $400 to $600 ones are absolute travesties)

That's basically what I paid for mine ($200). $250 is probably the upper range on what I think a fair price would be. Anything higher is just silly.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

Tech-savvy: They already got their main system, be it a desktop or a powerful desktop replacement laptop, and they want a Netbook for portability without the headaches(mostly economics related in this case).

First time buyer: We have almost every kind of one-usage devices(the last I heard was for cellphones), a Netbook is so cheap its almost like a throwaway computer. Because it costs so little, its easier for those people to purchase and use it without worrying too much about breaking it or messing it up. When it breaks, buy another one.

The usage scenario for most people are very binary like. They either do it or they don't. You don't play games with a crappy Netbook that can barely run anything. Ion won't turn Atom into a high-end desktop replacement gaming system. Your gaming experience will still SUCK.


Atom 330 vs Core 2 or Celeron: The Atom 330 is a NETTOP variant Atom with 8W TDP. You could just get a cheap Core 2/Celeron(insert AMD equivalent here) based one and get better performance. The overlap here is kinda weird. Those that say multi-cores are better don't know that Atom hasn't passed the mark where the 2 cores make up for the lack of single thread performance.

I know Netbooks aren't the only place Intel uses artificial segmentation as a strategy. On desktops they have the "Q" series chipsets with crippled IGP and other features while the supposedly equivalent "value" version on the laptop is almost fully fledged as the mainstream counterpart.

They want to use the platform for Classmate PC, in which lower prices are better no matter how much low. Zero chance of HD decoding or Ion there.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

Tech-savvy: They already got their main system, be it a desktop or a powerful desktop replacement laptop, and they want a Netbook for portability without the headaches(mostly economics related in this case).

First time buyer: We have almost every kind of one-usage devices(the last I heard was for cellphones), a Netbook is so cheap its almost like a throwaway computer. Because it costs so little, its easier for those people to purchase and use it without worrying too much about breaking it or messing it up. When it breaks, buy another one.

The usage scenario for most people are very binary like. They either do it or they don't. You don't play games with a crappy Netbook that can barely run anything. Ion won't turn Atom into a high-end desktop replacement gaming system. Your gaming experience will still SUCK.


Atom 330 vs Core 2 or Celeron: The Atom 330 is a NETTOP variant Atom with 8W TDP. You could just get a cheap Core 2/Celeron(insert AMD equivalent here) based one and get better performance. The overlap here is kinda weird. Those that say multi-cores are better don't know that Atom hasn't passed the mark where the 2 cores make up for the lack of single thread performance.

I know Netbooks aren't the only place Intel uses artificial segmentation as a strategy. On desktops they have the "Q" series chipsets with crippled IGP and other features while the supposedly equivalent "value" version on the laptop is almost fully fledged as the mainstream counterpart.

They want to use the platform for Classmate PC, in which lower prices are better no matter how much low. Zero chance of HD decoding or Ion there.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

Tech-savvy: They already got their main system, be it a desktop or a powerful desktop replacement laptop, and they want a Netbook for portability without the headaches(mostly economics related in this case).

First time buyer: We have almost every kind of one-usage devices(the last I heard was for cellphones), a Netbook is so cheap its almost like a throwaway computer. Because it costs so little, its easier for those people to purchase and use it without worrying too much about breaking it or messing it up. When it breaks, buy another one.

The usage scenario for most people are very binary like. They either do it or they don't. You don't play games with a crappy Netbook that can barely run anything. Ion won't turn Atom into a high-end desktop replacement gaming system. Your gaming experience will still SUCK.


Atom 330 vs Core 2 or Celeron: The Atom 330 is a NETTOP variant Atom with 8W TDP. You could just get a cheap Core 2/Celeron(insert AMD equivalent here) based one and get better performance. The overlap here is kinda weird. Those that say multi-cores are better don't know that Atom hasn't passed the mark where the 2 cores make up for the lack of single thread performance.

I know Netbooks aren't the only place Intel uses artificial segmentation as a strategy. On desktops they have the "Q" series chipsets with crippled IGP and other features while the supposedly equivalent "value" version on the laptop is almost fully fledged as the mainstream counterpart.

They want to use the platform for Classmate PC, in which lower prices are better no matter how much low. Zero chance of HD decoding or Ion there.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

Tech-savvy: They already got their main system, be it a desktop or a powerful desktop replacement laptop, and they want a Netbook for portability without the headaches(mostly economics related in this case).

First time buyer: We have almost every kind of one-usage devices(the last I heard was for cellphones), a Netbook is so cheap its almost like a throwaway computer. Because it costs so little, its easier for those people to purchase and use it without worrying too much about breaking it or messing it up. When it breaks, buy another one.

The usage scenario for most people are very binary like. They either do it or they don't. You don't play games with a crappy Netbook that can barely run anything. Ion won't turn Atom into a high-end desktop replacement gaming system. Your gaming experience will still SUCK.


Atom 330 vs Core 2 or Celeron: The Atom 330 is a NETTOP variant Atom with 8W TDP. You could just get a cheap Core 2/Celeron(insert AMD equivalent here) based one and get better performance. The overlap here is kinda weird. Those that say multi-cores are better don't know that Atom hasn't passed the mark where the 2 cores make up for the lack of single thread performance.

I know Netbooks aren't the only place Intel uses artificial segmentation as a strategy. On desktops they have the "Q" series chipsets with crippled IGP and other features while the supposedly equivalent "value" version on the laptop is almost fully fledged as the mainstream counterpart.

They want to use the platform for Classmate PC, in which lower prices are better no matter how much low. Zero chance of HD decoding or Ion there.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

Tech-savvy: They already got their main system, be it a desktop or a powerful desktop replacement laptop, and they want a Netbook for portability without the headaches(mostly economics related in this case).

First time buyer: We have almost every kind of one-usage devices(the last I heard was for cellphones), a Netbook is so cheap its almost like a throwaway computer. Because it costs so little, its easier for those people to purchase and use it without worrying too much about breaking it or messing it up. When it breaks, buy another one.

The usage scenario for most people are very binary like. They either do it or they don't. You don't play games with a crappy Netbook that can barely run anything. Ion won't turn Atom into a high-end desktop replacement gaming system. Your gaming experience will still SUCK.


Atom 330 vs Core 2 or Celeron: The Atom 330 is a NETTOP variant Atom with 8W TDP. You could just get a cheap Core 2/Celeron(insert AMD equivalent here) based one and get better performance. The overlap here is kinda weird. Those that say multi-cores are better don't know that Atom hasn't passed the mark where the 2 cores make up for the lack of single thread performance.

I know Netbooks aren't the only place Intel uses artificial segmentation as a strategy. On desktops they have the "Q" series chipsets with crippled IGP and other features while the supposedly equivalent "value" version on the laptop is almost fully fledged as the mainstream counterpart.

They want to use the platform for Classmate PC, in which lower prices are better no matter how much low. Zero chance of HD decoding or Ion there.

 

[Rifter]

wow first Quintuple post ive ever seen.

 

[Lonyo]

Beats wasting money on any netbook out there, including the ones being sold on Newegg for $800+.
Most Netbooks are a ripoff, plain and simple.

You think your notebook is better than http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834117903 ???!?!??!!!!!?

They aren't even in the remotely same class of device
The reason $800+ netbooks exist is because either the manufacturer is stupid (puts an expensive SSD in a netbook) or because they are being made into a class of device which isn't at all comparable to a notebook, and hell, it's barely comparable to a netbook.
Netbook power in something that would fit in the back pocket of a (fat) person? For ONLY $800? That's a steal.


I think a lot of people who say netbooks are a rip off and compare them to regular notebooks have never thought about netbooks properly.
I have a 15.6" laptop, cost me £350 IIRC, and I have a netbook, which I paid £250 for. The battery life on the netbook is not great (I went for a low cap battery by choice), but when I am going to the library at university, I never take my laptop. I can just leave my netbook in my bad and forget it's even there, because its size offers advantages that an equally priced or slightly more expensive low end laptop can't hope to match at the moment.

The only thing you can compare a netbook to is cheap a 12" or so CULV Core 2 based machine, not a regular 15" or bigger laptop, because if you try and compare them, you're just not getting it, and you don't understand the advantages of a netbook (size and weight).

 

[lothar]

You think your notebook is better than http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834117903 ???!?!??!!!!!?

They aren't even in the remotely same class of device
The reason $800+ netbooks exist is because either the manufacturer is stupid (puts an expensive SSD in a netbook) or because they are being made into a class of device which isn't at all comparable to a notebook, and hell, it's barely comparable to a netbook.

Sure is. What's so great about what you linked besides the screen size and having bluetooth(which if you really needed you can still get a USB dongle)?

Atom for $800? Yuck. Actually, I should say "disgusting" here because of the price.
XP Home? Yuck.
1GB RAM? Yuck.
Verizon Wireless Mobile Broadband? Verizon fully subsidizes the USB and expresscard versions. You still have to pay verizon monthly whether it's a built-in feature or not.
Built-in MOTION EYE camera? Unless you're a teenager in highschool or a myspace user you shouldn't care about such a useless feature. Cameras in notebooks are what bright LED lights are to computer cases IMHO.
80GB 4200RPM? Okay so is that an SSD or a mechanical one? I've never seen an SSD measured in RPM. 80GB is too small for $800.
Only 2 USB slots?...Hmm.
One Memory Stick Duo media slot with MagicGate functionality? Unless you use a Sony branded camera or PSP their proprietary format feature is useless. Get a USB SD card reader on Newegg for $15-20.

For almost $800? not worth it IMO.

Netbook power in something that would fit in the back pocket of a (fat) person? For ONLY $800? That's a steal.

The only thing you can compare a netbook to is cheap a 12" or so CULV Core 2 based machine, not a regular 15" or bigger laptop, because if you try and compare them, you're just not getting it, and you don't understand the advantages of a netbook (size and weight).

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic with your first sentence.
If that fat person is concerned about fitting something at the back of his pocket, why not get a $200-400 netbook? Why waste $800 on the one you linked to?

BTW, I said "Most netbooks are a ripoff."
"Most" means "not all"

 

[lothar]

This thread has deviated from a question asked by the OP to a hatred of Netbooks and I apologize if I may have started the fight or contributed to it.
Bottom line: Intel only sets a screen size restriction, Microsoft sets a restriction on everything else based on whatever OS you're using.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I just don't see the point of a slow, Atom-based/GMA950-based netbook, that cannot even watch full-screen Hulu or YouTube, when I can get a full-featured laptop that can burn DVDs/CDs, watch full-screen flash video, and even run virtualization (XP Mode), for $200 and change. (Which is what I did, I picked up an eMachines E627 laptop at WM on BF.)

 

[21stHermit]

I just don't see the point of a slow, Atom-based/GMA950-based netbook, that cannot even watch full-screen Hulu or YouTube, when I can get a full-featured laptop that can burn DVDs/CDs, watch full-screen flash video, and even run virtualization (XP Mode), for $200 and change. (Which is what I did, I picked up an eMachines E627 laptop at WM on BF.)

While I also purchased the full boat lappie, some people ride trains and planes and the 2-3 pound weight savings plus the smaller size is a big deal. Choice is good.

 

[TuxDave]

I just don't see the point of a slow, Atom-based/GMA950-based netbook, that cannot even watch full-screen Hulu or YouTube, when I can get a full-featured laptop that can burn DVDs/CDs, watch full-screen flash video, and even run virtualization (XP Mode), for $200 and change. (Which is what I did, I picked up an eMachines E627 laptop at WM on BF.)

Because if I wanted one now, I couldn't get one for $200 because it's not BF anymore? $200 and change isn't typical (as far as I know)

 

[Idontcare]

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

I think there are probably two kind of people who buys Netbooks.

damn dude, that has GOT to be a record for multi-posting!