It's a very simple case of liability exposure. Even as a small businessman in flyover country I know better, you expect Intel to be so stupid? The standard of the industry for desktop and server is to have an IHS now, it would be really difficult to regress without being liable for every damaged die.Intel should just sell delidded CPUs already.
Refer to the article I posted that says the "new TIM" doesn't perform any better than the "old TIM". I put it in quotes because we have to take Intel's word for it being changed in the first place. The result that article discusses suggests it wasn't changed.Well, the general consensus in that the new polymer did allow DC to run a few degrees cooler, but obviously not enough to make you happy.
Because they aren't. There are no Broadwell or Skylake E chips on the market.As far as the "E" chips, they are perfectly available to buy, dont know why you would say they arent.
It's not about it being nice. It's about an expensive product, like an i7, being good enough. People who want low thermal transfer performance have Pentiums, i3s, and i5s to purchase. Parts that are expensive and designed for performance like a quad i7 should not be bottlenecked 16-20+ C by polymer TIM.Admittedly it would be nice if K chips had solder instead of TIM.
Trivial.From a production standpoint though, I am not sure how practical/expensive it is to do this.
You're neglecting the clear incentive Intel has to create the delidding practice.If it were easy and relatively inexpensive, I would think intel would do it and sell the chips at a higher price.
Refer to the poll results.Or maybe there just arent that many users that would be interested.
It's a very simple case of liability exposure. Even as a small businessman in flyover country I know better, you expect Intel to be so stupid? The standard of the industry for desktop and server is to have an IHS now, it would be really difficult to regress without being liable for every damaged die.
That sounds a bit ... conspiratorial to me. I really doubt Intel has a "cash cow" of enthusiasts failing to properly de-lid their CPUs and ordering new ones.You're neglecting the clear incentive Intel has to create the delidding practice.
It's obviously not what happens in practice. It would be a PR disaster either way.Why would that be so? I believe that all Intel CPUs, whether boxed or tray, are intended to be "installed by professionals".
Refer to the article I posted that says the "new TIM" doesn't perform any better than the "old TIM". I put it in quotes because we have to take Intel's word for it being changed in the first place. The result that article discusses suggests it wasn't changed.
Because they aren't. There are no Broadwell or Skylake E chips on the market.
And, those chips are not necessary at all for enthusiast gaming. The extra cores are only a drawback.
It's not about it being nice. It's about an expensive product, like an i7, being good enough. People who want low thermal transfer performance have Pentiums, i3s, and i5s to purchase. Parts that are expensive and designed for performance like a quad i7 should not be bottlenecked 16-20+ C by polymer TIM.
It was pointed out that segmentation is important for Intel's pricing. Having soldered quads improves the difference between an i5 and an i7.
Trivial.
You're neglecting the clear incentive Intel has to create the delidding practice.
Refer to the poll results.
It's a very simple case of liability exposure. Even as a small businessman in flyover country I know better, you expect Intel to be so stupid? The standard of the industry for desktop and server is to have an IHS now, it would be really difficult to regress without being liable for every damaged die.
Intel should just sell delidded CPUs already.
I'd really like to know how you've broken the laws of physics by having your chips run cooler than ambient.
A corporation's job is to conspire against consumers, giving them a minimum of product for a maximum of profit. Corporations are not non-profits; they aren't charities. They are supposed to enrich shareholders.That sounds a bit ... conspiratorial to me. I really doubt Intel has a "cash cow" of enthusiasts failing to properly de-lid their CPUs and ordering new ones.
It's a lot easier to provide no warranty for delidding than it is to try to provide a warranty for a product with no installed spreader. Also, delidding is more dangerous than putting on a spreader after using more effective TIM, especially given the thinned substrate.If they were really counting on a certain percentage of double-sales to people that are destroying their chips, wouldn't they want to sell already de-lidded CPUs, such that more people might be likely to crack their dies installing them?
Delidded isn't the same as bare-die. They could still throw the IHS in the box and say that you won't be covered by warranty if you don't use it. It's not like the temperature difference between bare-die and IHS with liquid-metal TIM is more than a couple of degrees.
While we're daydreaming about things that will never happen, wouldn't it be cool if Intel printed the chip's information around the perimeter of the IHS so that lapping wouldn't void your warranty?
Selling a CPU without the sealant removes one of the big reasons for the IHS to be there in the first place.
Anandtech said:To paraphrase Splave again, he comments that the thermal paste (TIM) on his Skylake is certainly worse than that of Devil's Canyon. If the extra mass on the IHS is coming from a taller heatspreader (by virtue of the smaller package substrate), then more TIM is needed otherwise there will be substantial air bubbling of the TIM between the CPU and the heatspreader. By replacing his own thermal paste and resecuring the heatspreader, he saw an 18°C drop in temperatures at his highest air overclock with the old paste (5.1 GHz at 1.48 volts) - from 96ºC that overheated to 78ºC on the warmest core. An 18°C drop is immense. Under those conditions, and based on rough testing not published in our Skylake review, it could equal another 100-400 MHz depending on the quality of the processor. PCWatch confirms that switching out the paste with CoolLaboratory’s Liquid Pro (a liquid metal adhesion interface) reduced temperatures at 4.6 GHz from 88ºC to 68ºC
When customers have no choice.It is worth noting that previously on certain platforms Intel had been providing a mixed metal interface (generalized as a soldered interface) between the silicon and the heatspreader, which is the best but most expensive option. If the cost of the interface is reduced by 0.1 cents, then that's a significant saving on millions of processors.
Why? Consumers are completely at their mercy.I would think Intel might have used the better interface method/material on the unlocked multiplier chips, which are probably relatively low volume.
I think there must be more to it than simply saving money.
It has been agreed that it's not the Tim itself that's the problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvS_qgn7OSs
Point fingers, make Polls, get worked up about it, whatever.. I didn't vote in the poll, because IMO it's a non-issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvS_qgn7OSs
As seen in the above video as he's delidding, intel used sufficient amount TIM, and was making good transfer to heat spreader. There's nothing sinister about what they've done. They're producing quality products, that feeds the masses.
Point fingers, make Polls, get worked up about it, whatever.. I didn't vote in the poll, because IMO it's a non-issue.
That's your opinion. A lot of others think it is an issue.Where's the problem? I don't agree there is one..
Do we see Skylakes that are overheating? Nope. Many running at 4.7GHz without doing anything to the chip.
"Intel's TIM continues to create heat bottleneck, many years after Ivy"
Poppycock!
I don't know of any hard evidence that shows soldered chips, in general, perform equally as bad as Intel's TIM.Deders said:If you had a gap between the IHS of a soldered chip and the heatsink you would see similar results.