Interesting hydrogen generation scheme

[werepossum]

Nukes are fine for areas requiring a lot of power in a small area, but alternatives to grid based technologies should be used whenever possible. In fact it should be a priority.

I very much agree. Point-of-use solar is great because it feeds into the grid especially during peak load times, reducing the size of the necessary grid. Especially so if there is a smart grid. Any electricity generated at or near the point of use suffers much less loss as well, and much less disruption if it fails.

If you are turning hydrogen gas into water you are burning it. Burning is oxidation.

Exactly.

 

[soccerballtux]

That worked really in Japan.

The human race is (still) too stupid for nuclear power. Too much greed a sloth.

Do you know how much of France's power comes from nuclear?

>80%.

Works great for them.

Bringing up Japan is a non-sequitor and poor reasoning. If they built a (at the time) modern reactor instead of the dated technology they used (same one used in 3-mile-island...same result...) things would have turned out differently.

Failsafe nuclear designs exist today where it's IMPOSSIBLE for the nuclear reaction to run away into a meltdown. Look into pebble bed reactors, Thorium reactors, to name two off the top of my head. Especially pebble bed reactors.

 

[K1052]

Do you know how much of France's power comes from nuclear?

>80%.

Works great for them.

Bringing up Japan is a non-sequitor and poor reasoning. If they built a (at the time) modern reactor instead of the dated technology they used (same one used in 3-mile-island...same result...) things would have turned out differently.

Failsafe nuclear designs exist today where it's IMPOSSIBLE for the nuclear reaction to run away into a meltdown. Look into pebble bed reactors, Thorium reactors, to name two off the top of my head. Especially pebble bed reactors.

Fukashima and TMI were different reactor designs and much different incidents, though both are Gen II plants. If anything nations should be more aggressively retiring the aging Gen II models that are the backbone of the nuclear generation fleets and building the Gen III+ reactors to replace them that are a lot less complex (and inherently safer relying on many more passive features than their predecessors).

You're describing the Gen IV lines which need a lot more R&D before they can be adopted commercially.

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, any solar-based scheme is area-intensive. Land in many areas is cheap though, especially so where water is plentiful enough to allow open loop systems (assuming that purity issues don't require a covered process.)

Even in densely populated areas there is plenty of room for solar. Rooftops, especially large commercial businesses, are generally completely unused. I am not so sure about producing and collecting hydrogen on top of your local walmart but as far as space for solar goes, we have shitloads of it.

 

[Darwin333]

HYDROGEN IS NOT A FUEL!!!!!!!!!!

grumblegrumble.....

its only a way to transfer energy. Nat. Gas and Oil are FUELS.

Umm, I think the sun (you know, that big yellow thing in the sky) would disagree with that statement. Ironically the energy from the sun created had a very large part in creating the things you consider actual fuels.

 

[tommo123]

well, wouldn't that hydrogen be energy stored from the big bang in some sense? it's just that the sun uses it as fuel?

 

[piasabird]

Pure oxygen is also realeased. Can you say boom? You can realese hydrogen just by using an electrode like a silver coin and a very low electrical current. The real problem is collecting and storing the gas. It probably takes more energy to liquify it. There is plenty of methane created from our landfills with no energy involved. Why not use that? Caterpiller makes generators that run off of methane.

 

[Moonbeam]

Pure oxygen is also realeased. Can you say boom? You can realese hydrogen just by using an electrode like a silver coin and a very low electrical current. The real problem is collecting and storing the gas. It probably takes more energy to liquify it. There is plenty of methane created from our landfills with no energy involved. Why not use that? Caterpiller makes generators that run off of methane.

Collecting and storing it isn't a big problem at all. Storing it in a density sufficient to get 300 miles per fill up for a vehicle is. The major research isn't going into liquefying it for transportation and methane releases carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, which is the charm of pure hydrogen as a fuel. It releases water and that's it. But methane from biomass is not a bad deal and research is proceeding there too.

 

[Thump553]

p.s., Found it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole

Fascinating link, thanks. Never heard of this project. It's amazing (and gratifying) the tremendous amounts of money and effort governments can sink into pure science research efforts.

 

[werepossum]

Even in densely populated areas there is plenty of room for solar. Rooftops, especially large commercial businesses, are generally completely unused. I am not so sure about producing and collecting hydrogen on top of your local walmart but as far as space for solar goes, we have shitloads of it.

And especially in the south, covering the roof with solar panels (and therefore eliminating the direct solar radiance that heats up the building) has enormous benefits in reducing air conditioning loads - which is also worst during peak load times, so it's a twofer benefit to the grid.

To understand how much heat gain we get through the roof, look at the difference between an earth-sheltered building with a green roof versus one with a super-insulated conventional exposed roof. It takes over eight feet of earth to surpass energy savings of a super-insulated conventional exposed roof in winter heating mode in the northern USA - but only ten to fourteen inches to surpass it in summer cooling mode in the southern USA. A roof totally covered with solar panels (with air flow space beneath) would reduce most of that, giving us most of the benefits of an earth-covered green roof as a free side effect.