Interesting hydrogen generation scheme

[werepossum]

I thought this
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/hydrogen-research-alloy-catalyst-sunlight,news-12367.html
was interesting news. These people are breaking water's hydrogen-oxygen bond using sunlight on a partially submerged alloy of gallium nitride doped with 2% antimony.

According to the researchers, an alloy formed by a 2 percent substitution of antimony (Sb) in gallium nitride (GaN) can be partially submerged in water to break the chemical bond between the hydrogen and oxygen molecules in water, as long as the alloy is exposed to sunlight. In effect, the alloy serves as a novel photoelectrochemical (PEC) catalyst that would allow the simple production of hydrogen.

"Previous research on photoelectrochemical [water splitting] has focused on complex materials," Madhu Menon, aprofessor at the UK Center for Computational Sciences said. "We decided to go against the conventional wisdom and start with some easy-to-produce materials, even if they lacked the right arrangement of electrons to meet [photoelectrochemical] water splitting criteria. Our goal was to see if a minimal 'tweaking' of the electronic arrangement in these materials would accomplish the desired results."

Gallium nitride is a semiconductor that has been in widespread use to make bright-light LEDs since the 1990s. Antimony is a metalloid element that has been in increased demand in recent years for applications in microelectronics. The GaN-Sb alloy is the first simple, easy-to-produce material to be considered a candidate for PEC water splitting, the researchers said. They stressed that the alloy functions as a catalyst in the PEC reaction and it is not consumed and may be reused indefinitely. there was no information how effective the use of the alloy is.

The researchers said they are testing the alloy to convert solar energy to hydrogen.

Hydrogen is in many ways an ideal fuel, as its principle byproduct is water. The biggest problem has been that generating hydrogen fuel takes more energy than it can theoretically release. Obviously some sort of process using sunlight and/or waste heat to break that bond was necessary for widespread use of hydrogen. If this could be done, then we might find a relatively painless way off fossil fuels. This process has some promise for that, although as always, the big question remains whether it will scale up and at what final cost can the hydrogen be produced.

Now we just need a way to cheaply produce solar cells . . .

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Don't need solar cells. Look up steam turbines powered by hyperbolic mirrors. It's amazing technology.

 

[dmcowen674]

As Peons we will never see it

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

As Peons we will never see it

Ever heard of eco-kooks?

Mark my words, they will block hydrogen from becoming a viable fuel source because of the irrational "zomg explosive gas" mentality.

And real, efficient solar farms won't be allowed because they'll infringe on some stupid desert tortoise's habitat.

 

[Zorba]

Considering this is just a catalyst, it would still require a huge amount of energy of solar energy to break a significant amount of hydrogen and oxygen from water. Assuming the US average solar intensity is ~200W/m^2, if you had 1 m^2 of area for your splitting pool, it would take ~167 hours to generate one gasoline gallon equivalent. Or to generate say 25 gallon equivalents a week, you would need about 25 m^2 (269 ft^2) of pool area, assuming everything is 100% efficient, knock that down to 50% efficiency and you would need double the area.

I think I did my math right. If so it looks like it could be something that would be some what viable, at least as much as the current market for CNG vehicles.

 

[Howard]

As Peons we will never see it

Yeah, I'd never give it to you either.

 

[monovillage]

Here's an article about fuel cells using hydrogen.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/30/fuel-cells-get-the-dynamite-treatment/

"From the University of Southern California a parallel for Alfred Nobel’s design of a stable substrate for dynamite (which at the time used unstable nitro-glycerin). This solves the collision problem for automobile mounted fuel cells."

 

[ichy]

Considering this is just a catalyst, it would still require a huge amount of energy of solar energy to break a significant amount of hydrogen and oxygen from water.

That's why we should be using nuclear power...

 

[werepossum]

Considering this is just a catalyst, it would still require a huge amount of energy of solar energy to break a significant amount of hydrogen and oxygen from water. Assuming the US average solar intensity is ~200W/m^2, if you had 1 m^2 of area for your splitting pool, it would take ~167 hours to generate one gasoline gallon equivalent. Or to generate say 25 gallon equivalents a week, you would need about 25 m^2 (269 ft^2) of pool area, assuming everything is 100% efficient, knock that down to 50% efficiency and you would need double the area.

I think I did my math right. If so it looks like it could be something that would be some what viable, at least as much as the current market for CNG vehicles.

Yes, any solar-based scheme is area-intensive. Land in many areas is cheap though, especially so where water is plentiful enough to allow open loop systems (assuming that purity issues don't require a covered process.)

 

[5to1baby1in5]

That's why we should be using nuclear power...

That worked really in Japan.

The human race is (still) too stupid for nuclear power. Too much greed a sloth.

 

[a777pilot]

The answer is and has been for some time now, nuclear power. There is no good reason to have any of this nation's electrical energy produced by fossil fuels. We ought start off with a minimum of 1,000 nuclear power plants. some of them could be dedicated to producing hydrogen for use in cities vehicles.

All these other energy producing methods ought continue to be studied. In the mean time 1,000 nukes are the start to our energy independence. That and the new technology for coal to oil out of UT Arlington.

 

[a777pilot]

p.s. For those that think nuke power is too expensive and too dangerous, well here....read this:

http://www.thorium.tv/en/thorium_reactor/thorium_reactor_1.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium

Oh, yes, one more thing about nuclear power, we, the United States, are NOT Russia or Japan.

 

[Dulanic]

The answer is and has been for some time now, nuclear power. There is no good reason to have any of this nation's electrical energy produced by fossil fuels. We ought start off with a minimum of 1,000 nuclear power plants. some of them could be dedicated to producing hydrogen for use in cities vehicles.

All these other energy producing methods ought continue to be studied. In the mean time 1,000 nukes are the start to our energy independence. That and the new technology for coal to oil out of UT Arlington.

I actually agree... amazing.

 

[ichy]

That worked really in Japan.

The human race is (still) too stupid for nuclear power. Too much greed a sloth.

Uh yeah, compare how many people died from Fukushima to how many die every year in coal mining in the United States. Come back after that and tell me what's more dangerous.

 

[werepossum]

Uh yeah, compare how many people died from Fukushima to how many die every year in coal mining in the United States. Come back after that and tell me what's more dangerous.

That's no doubt true, but there were some horrendous decisions and compromises made at Fukushima that I really would not like to see made in the USA.

 

[spikespiegal]

I still insist that nuclear power plants can be designed with near fault proof safety margins. The biggest problem is having to build huge reactor vessels to make them cost effective, and this makes them tricky to cool. Make a lot of smaller reactor vessels that don't require such a massive cooling subsystem, and use an intercooler exchange to gradually increase water temp to it's vapor pressure over a series of stages. Design the 'ring' so that any one or two stages can be down for refueling at any given time and by design there's no way to get an out of control thermal situation. Effing simple.

IMHO, hydrogen and solar have too low of energy densities to be viable at industrial scale. My money is on either geo thermal (near infinite energy if you big a deep hole) or tidal.

 

[a777pilot]

I really don't understand. Please, help.

There were almost 25,000 deaths due to the Tsunami and zero deaths due to radiation, but all we ever hear about is the nuke disaster. Why is that?

 

[ichy]

I really don't understand. Please, help.

There were almost 25,000 deaths due to the Tsunami and zero deaths due to radiation, but all we ever hear about is the nuke disaster. Why is that?

It's an irrational fear of anything associated with the term "nuclear."

Seriously, has anyone ever been killed by the civilian nuclear power industry in the US? BTW, unlike Japan we have lots and lots of space and could easily put new nuke plants far away from seismic fault lines and tsunami zones.

 

[her209]

This tech is going right next to the water powered car.

 

[werepossum]

It's an irrational fear of anything associated with the term "nuclear."

Seriously, has anyone ever been killed by the civilian nuclear power industry in the US? BTW, unlike Japan we have lots and lots of space and could easily put new nuke plants far away from seismic fault lines and tsunami zones.

That, and the nuclear disaster is man-made. We react differently to acts of G-d and acts of man. (Which is kinda strange if you think about it - which one should be held to a higher standard?)

This tech is going right next to the water powered car.

LOL Probably - but I can still dream!

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Generating cheap hydrogen has never been an issue. Storing and pressurizing it has.

 

[a777pilot]

That, and the nuclear disaster is man-made. We react differently to acts of G-d and acts of man. (Which is kinda strange if you think about it - which one should be held to a higher standard?)


LOL Probably - but I can still dream!

LOL! I think you were searching for "acts of God". Why is that so difficult for you to say?

 

[a777pilot]

Generating cheap hydrogen has never been an issue. Storing and pressurizing it has.

Good point. I wonder if it would be cheaper, easier and safer to store and use liquefied hydrogen vice the gas.

 

[werepossum]

LOL! I think you were searching for "acts of God". Why is that so difficult for you to say?

Habit, mostly. I used to spend a lot of time on Jewish theology, current events, military and history boards (although I'm not Jewish, I respect the religion and its people quite a lot) and it's a common convention that one does not write out the name of our deity as a matter of respect and piety. I'm honestly undecided if it's sensible or affectation (especially in my non-Jewish self) but unless and until I make a firm decision either way, it shows respect and costs me nothing.

And it drives the militant atheist progressives a little crazy. Um, crazier. That makes it almost too fun to stop.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Good point. I wonder if it would be cheaper, easier and safer to store and use liquefied hydrogen vice the gas.

It is but, how exactly do you plan on turning the generated hydrogen gas into liquid hydrogen? Last I heard that required vast amounts of energy.