Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: jaredfs
Originally posted by: Ns1
Maybe you can point out the part where explosives caused it to fall.
That's because as I originally pointed out, they spent zero time even considering explosives as a possibility. It's sad when your average CSI investigation is more in depth.
They are suppose to be releasing another report on WTC 7 sometime here, though.
I don't know man, this seems like they spent some time considering it
IST?s findings also do not support the ?controlled demolition? theory since there is conclusive evidence that:
*
the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and;
*
the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors.
This link also seems alot more logical than many theories presented in this thread.
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
It's amazing just how many stupid people there are out there that believe this crap. There truly is a sucker born every minute.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I remember the days when I would have been pwned within the first 20 posts......*sigh* im getting better or your getting worse.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
ok so if my numbers are ridiculously inflated then lets just do $100 per sq ft
thats 640 million per month thats 7.6 billion per year. I think he can live with that. And in 10 or 20 years it would certainly put the Silverstein name(whether him or his heirs) on the richest in the world list.
This estimate is lower than the average ( http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_16_54/ai_n21175945)
Plus this is the most desirable real estate in the world hardly "average" This is state of the art premier primo #1 top grade A real estate space. Its going to yield well beyond the bargain basement $100
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
I remember the days when I would have been pwned within the first 20 posts......*sigh* im getting better or your getting worse.
My getting worse? Huh?
Originally posted by: jaredfs
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
I'll ask my questions again:
- If explosives were planted, why did they not go off when main towers came crashing down? Why wait nearly 10 hours to blow them up?
- If explosives were planted, why did firefighters believe that the building was already going to collapse three hours before it actually did?
- If someone wired WTC 7 to blow up, then why hit WTC 1 and 2 with planes? Why not outfit them with explosives too?
OK, I'll take a shot at your questions just for the heck of it...
1. The terrorists mission is to spread terror, panic, etc. WTC 7 went down at 5:20 pm - peak drive time for radio. People are looking forward to going home and relaxing and then they are hit with news of another building going down.
2. They had just witnessed two other towers with fires come collapsing down. Of course they were going to worry about another collapse.
3. Hitting them with planes spreads more fear than just using explosives. In addition to making people fearful of their buildings blowing up, they also have to fear planes crashing into it. Then there are all the increased fears when traveling by air.
we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o?clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o?clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
It's amazing just how many stupid people there are out there that believe this crap. There truly is a sucker born every minute.
it did take you guys well over 600 post to finally present some real facts backed by real sources. I remember the days when I would have been pwned within the first 20 posts......*sigh* im getting better or your getting worse.
WTC 7 is generally accused of being a controlled demolition, mostly because of the speed of it's collapse. The only problem with this argument is that a controlled demolition requires lots of explosives and lots of time to plant them. We're talking thousands of locations, miles of detonation cord, and a sophisticated control system put in place over a period of weeks. To think that the entire building was rigged to blow and nobody noticed is really, really unlikely in my mind.
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
ok so if my numbers are ridiculously inflated then lets just do $100 per sq ft
thats 640 million per month thats 7.6 billion per year. I think he can live with that. And in 10 or 20 years it would certainly put the Silverstein name(whether him or his heirs) on the richest in the world list.
This estimate is lower than the average ( http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_16_54/ai_n21175945)
Plus this is the most desirable real estate in the world hardly "average" This is state of the art premier primo #1 top grade A real estate space. Its going to yield well beyond the bargain basement $100
You do realize the totality of "evidence" you rely on as an indicator of Silverstein's complicity in mass murder rests solely and completely on your assertion that "he stood to profit?"
Do you admit there is no document, phone or wire tap, witness, overheard conversation, email, photograph, computer file, or any other piece of evidence AT ALL that "links" him to such an enterprise?
Do you further realize that it is completely and entirely IMPOSSIBLE to refute your argument when it is based on nothing but coincidence? How can a person possibly disprove complicity when all the evidence you require is that they stood to profit?
Let's say, for insanity's sake, that he IS complicit. There is still zero evidence with which to support such a belief, only your gut feeling. If that's all it takes for you to justify your strongly held conviction in a person's treason and mass murder, I pray you never sit on a criminal jury.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
It's amazing just how many stupid people there are out there that believe this crap. There truly is a sucker born every minute.
it did take you guys well over 600 post to finally present some real facts backed by real sources. I remember the days when I would have been pwned within the first 20 posts......*sigh* im getting better or your getting worse.
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
WTC 7 is generally accused of being a controlled demolition, mostly because of the speed of it's collapse. The only problem with this argument is that a controlled demolition requires lots of explosives and lots of time to plant them. We're talking thousands of locations, miles of detonation cord, and a sophisticated control system put in place over a period of weeks. To think that the entire building was rigged to blow and nobody noticed is really, really unlikely in my mind.
Cheney: Also, we have to knock down WTC-7, this very building, in order to get rid of the evidence. I think it goes without saying that we'll need a command center for these operations, and I can't think of a place that would be better or more appropriate than an office right next to the point of attack. From these very offices, gentlemen, we will coordinate the military war exercises that will be held in this region on that very morning, war exercises that will so thoroughly confuse our own military that they will be unable to identify and intercept the hijacked planes we will be sending at the towers like so many deadly guided missiles.
Kristol: But, Dick -- how can we be sure that the Air Force won't find a way to intercept the planes anyway?
Wolfowitz: I'll answer that, Dick. Irv, the best way we can guarantee that will be to issue stand-down orders in addition to implementing the war games.
Kristol: I see. We order the war games in order to stymie the Air Force intercepts we don't control, but just in case those fail, we'll control the Air Force intercepts.
Cheney: Now you're catching on.
Kristol: And the control center for those war games and for all our other plans (including the demolition) will be right here. These rooms are secret and utterly impenetrable to the general public at the moment, but after the attacks they will be vulnerable to forensic inspection by whichever city or federal agency goes through the wreckage of this doomed building.
Cheney: Exactly. That's one of the reasons I thought we should choose this space. If we chose some other spot as a base of operations -- a warehouse in Queens, say -- we might be able to keep it secure forever. But if we set up here, we can be sure some snooping official will end up poking around in the ruins. And we want that, it adds intrigue to the whole deal. Because it goes without saying that we won't be able to control all the cleanup agencies, except those that might be inclined to find our bomb fragments. Those we can count on 100%.
Kristol: Right, but still, we have to really be sure we destroy everything here. Especially all the papers and computer records of the conspiracy plans, which we will naturally leave behind, banking on the fact that they will be destroyed in the hellish conflagration.
Feith: Guys, I'm lost. You're saying we have to detonate this entire building in order to cover up the evidence of the crime?
All: Of course.
Feith: Why don't we just not leave the evidence behind and not blow up the building? Why should there be any evidence to leave behind at all?
Cheney: Doug, you're not being realistic. You always have to leave evidence of covert operations behind for the public to maybe find.
Wolfowitz: Well, except that we never have before.
Cheney: Right, except for that.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
ok so if my numbers are ridiculously inflated then lets just do $100 per sq ft
thats 640 million per month thats 7.6 billion per year. I think he can live with that. And in 10 or 20 years it would certainly put the Silverstein name(whether him or his heirs) on the richest in the world list.
This estimate is lower than the average ( http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_16_54/ai_n21175945)
Plus this is the most desirable real estate in the world hardly "average" This is state of the art premier primo #1 top grade A real estate space. Its going to yield well beyond the bargain basement $100
You do realize the totality of "evidence" you rely on as an indicator of Silverstein's complicity in mass murder rests solely and completely on your assertion that "he stood to profit?"
Do you admit there is no document, phone or wire tap, witness, overheard conversation, email, photograph, computer file, or any other piece of evidence AT ALL that "links" him to such an enterprise?
Do you further realize that it is completely and entirely IMPOSSIBLE to refute your argument when it is based on nothing but coincidence? How can a person possibly disprove complicity when all the evidence you require is that they stood to profit?
Let's say, for insanity's sake, that he IS complicit. There is still zero evidence with which to support such a belief, only your gut feeling. If that's all it takes for you to justify your strongly held conviction in a person's treason and mass murder, I pray you never sit on a criminal jury.
you know I conceded the debate 8 hours ago right? you won the battle is over. you can go home to wife and kids now.
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
It's amazing just how many stupid people there are out there that believe this crap. There truly is a sucker born every minute.
it did take you guys well over 600 post to finally present some real facts backed by real sources. I remember the days when I would have been pwned within the first 20 posts......*sigh* im getting better or your getting worse.
So you admit you are a dumbass? Cool
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: jaredfs
Originally posted by: Ns1
Maybe you can point out the part where explosives caused it to fall.
That's because as I originally pointed out, they spent zero time even considering explosives as a possibility. It's sad when your average CSI investigation is more in depth.
They are suppose to be releasing another report on WTC 7 sometime here, though.
I don't know man, this seems like they spent some time considering it
Originally posted by: jaredfs
Everything you quoted pertains to the towers (buildings 1 and 2). The only comment I know of from NIST in regards to explosives in building 7 is :
"NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements."
Originally posted by: Lurknomore
Cliffs, plz.
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: jaredfs
Everything you quoted pertains to the towers (buildings 1 and 2). The only comment I know of from NIST in regards to explosives in building 7 is :
"NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements."
that's all well and good, but it's a waste of time, money, and manpower. you can tell there weren't any bombs because none of the hundreds of microphones in the area that day managed to pick up the sound of explosions.
unless you're going to argue that they've got a percussion-less bomb now.
WTC 7 is generally accused of being a controlled demolition, mostly because of the speed of it's collapse. The only problem with this argument is that a controlled demolition requires lots of explosives and lots of time to plant them. We're talking thousands of locations, miles of detonation cord, and a sophisticated control system put in place over a period of weeks. To think that the entire building was rigged to blow and nobody noticed is really, really unlikely in my mind.
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=iv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxENxQ&feature=iv
let this simmer im going to bed
you can tell there weren't any bombs because none of the hundreds of microphones in the area that day managed to pick up the sound of explosions.
We're talking thousands of locations, miles of detonation cord, and a sophisticated control system put in place over a period of weeks. To think that the entire building was rigged to blow and nobody noticed is really, really unlikely in my mind.
Originally posted by: jaredfs
you can tell there weren't any bombs because none of the hundreds of microphones in the area that day managed to pick up the sound of explosions.
There are only a few known videos of the collapse and they are all from a good distance as that area was off limits. If you watch videos of actual controlled demolitions they don't sound much different than the WTC 7 collapse.
Then there is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YvrKfWkxdw
We're talking thousands of locations, miles of detonation cord, and a sophisticated control system put in place over a period of weeks. To think that the entire building was rigged to blow and nobody noticed is really, really unlikely in my mind.
That's a good point, but underestimating the terrorists is part of what allowed them to pull off everything they did.