Interesting tidbit about 9/11...

[Stuxnet]

This nonsense is still floating about? I thought all the left wing fanatics had let go of this barrel scraper in favor of theories at least possible in a Tom and Jerry episode.

 

[Josh]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=iv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxENxQ&feature=iv

let this simmer im going to bed

Oh dear god, not more from Youtube University

edit: I see we reached into the Department of Blame the Jews

So Slim, how much do you dislike Jews? First you try to blame Silverstein and now you blame Israel and, implicitly, Jews in the US who support policy towards Israel. Now we're not just talking about crackpot "teh weapons pods" theories, but bonafide antisemitism. Congrats.

Just don't even respond anymore. I really think based on his last few posts that he is just trying to get a rise out of people and either doesn't truly believe in this shit or does but doesn't care to intellectually back it up therefore just frustrating people to the point of no return.

 

[wwswimming]

among historical events, 9-11 has more interesting facts associated with it than,
well, i suppose it depends on how you count.

every troop in WW2 had a story, and there were a lot of them.

both ex-SF mayor Willie Brown & author Salman Rushdie received phone calls
warning them not to fly that week. the part about W. Brown was reported by
the SF Chron.

mighty odd they didn't get to testify for the 9-11 Commission.

i'd like to see a President Obama appoint Cynthia McKinney to re-open the
investigation.

mighty odd to see all these building demolition experts (i'm not referring
to Jesse Ventura) say, "looks like a building demolition to me". then, a
day or week later, they revise their statement. "oh, no, it was burning
jet fuel."

Jim Hoffman is a good physicist.

http://911research.wtc7.net/

for those interested. it takes a lot of energy to pulverize concrete,
however it's done. he does the energy calculations for the X00,000
tons of concrete in WTC 1 & 2.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
among historical events, 9-11 has more interesting facts associated with it than,
well, i suppose it depends on how you count.

every troop in WW2 had a story, and there were a lot of them.

both ex-SF mayor Willie Brown & author Salman Rushdie received phone calls
warning them not to fly that week. the part about W. Brown was reported by
the SF Chron.

mighty odd they didn't get to testify for the 9-11 Commission.

i'd like to see a President Obama appoint Cynthia McKinney to re-open the
investigation.

mighty odd to see all these building demolition experts (i'm not referring
to Jesse Ventura) say, "looks like a building demolition to me". then, a
day or week later, they revise their statement. "oh, no, it was burning
jet fuel."

Jim Hoffman is a good physicist.

http://911research.wtc7.net/

for those interested. it takes a lot of energy to pulverize concrete,
however it's done. he does the energy calculations for the X00,000
tons of concrete in WTC 1 & 2.

At first glance, sure, and then they consider it, get more information, and think about how burning jet fuel in a building is a very uncommon thing to have any experience with... and so revise their statements.

 

[Josh]

^^

The fact is no one has seen airplanes of this magnitude slam into buildings before. So how the hell can you compare it to a fire in another building? It is something no one has experience with therefore no one knows exactly what the hell will happen to a building when slammed into by a huge fucking jumbo jet at an incredibly high speed.

Whoever is claiming that the WTC were brought down by demolitions, I just thought about that bridge collapse in California last year. In case you didn't read/hear about it because I know you conspiracy theorists chose to ignore this one, it bears striking similarities to 9/11 on a MUCH smaller scale, so you can imagine what a plane would do:

The tanker carrying 8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited after crashing into a pylon on the interchange, which connects westbound lanes of Interstate 80 to southbound I-880, on the edge of downtown Oakland about half a mile from the Bay Bridge's toll plaza.

Witnesses reported flames rising up to 200 feet into the air. Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees and caused the steel beams holding up the interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 above to buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt, leading to the collapse, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269118,00.html

I wonder what a airliner driving at maybe 7 times the speed of that truck would do?

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Josh
^^

The fact is no one has seen airplanes of this magnitude slam into buildings before. So how the hell can you compare it to a fire in another building? It is something no one has experience with therefore no one knows exactly what the hell will happen to a building when slammed into by a huge fucking jumbo jet at an incredibly high speed.

Whoever is claiming that the WTC were brought down by demolitions, I just thought about that bridge collapse in California last year. In case you didn't read/hear about it because I know you conspiracy theorists chose to ignore this one, it bears striking similarities to 9/11 on a MUCH smaller scale, so you can imagine what a plane would do:

The tanker carrying 8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited after crashing into a pylon on the interchange, which connects westbound lanes of Interstate 80 to southbound I-880, on the edge of downtown Oakland about half a mile from the Bay Bridge's toll plaza.

Witnesses reported flames rising up to 200 feet into the air. Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees and caused the steel beams holding up the interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 above to buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt, leading to the collapse, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269118,00.html

I wonder what a airliner driving at maybe 7 times the speed of that truck would do?

Not to mention carrying much much more fuel, which then burned in a confined space allowing higher temperatures.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
among historical events, 9-11 has more interesting facts associated with it than,
well, i suppose it depends on how you count.

every troop in WW2 had a story, and there were a lot of them.

both ex-SF mayor Willie Brown & author Salman Rushdie received phone calls
warning them not to fly that week. the part about W. Brown was reported by
the SF Chron.

mighty odd they didn't get to testify for the 9-11 Commission.

i'd like to see a President Obama appoint Cynthia McKinney to re-open the
investigation.

mighty odd to see all these building demolition experts (i'm not referring
to Jesse Ventura) say, "looks like a building demolition to me". then, a
day or week later, they revise their statement. "oh, no, it was burning
jet fuel."
Jim Hoffman is a good physicist.

http://911research.wtc7.net/

for those interested. it takes a lot of energy to pulverize concrete,
however it's done. he does the energy calculations for the X00,000
tons of concrete in WTC 1 & 2.

The real story about Brown:

Brown was supposed to fly at 8 am SF time. He DID receive a call (the belief that it was from Condi Rice has no evidence) and DESPITE that call he chose to fly anyway:

...Brown didn't think about [the warning] again until he was up, dressed and waiting for his ride to the airport for an 8 a.m. flight to New York

"It was not an abnormal call. I'm always concerned if my flight is going to be on time, and they always alert me when I ought to be careful."

Exactly where the call came from is a bit of a mystery. The mayor would say only that it came from "my security people at the airport."

OMG! He had "security people" calling him and telling him not to fly. Is there any other explanation besides that they knew 9/11 was going to happen?

According to this article [ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...245.DTL&type=printable ], the warnings were about terrorist attacks on US personnel OVERSEAS and made no mention of any potential threats within the United States.

So, Brown receives a call about potential threats to American personnel overseas and ignores it. He is waiting to go to the airport to board his plane (remember, it was supposed to take off at 8 am PST, 11 am EST -- after the attacks on the WTC).

There are hundreds of stories floating around about people who either changed their flight plans or received mysterious warnings, none of them have been substantiated into any foreknowledge of 9/11.

As for your physics argument, a lot of people have addressed it and found that Hoffman probably isn't correct in asserting that the dust is concrete. There are hundreds of other calculations out there that all fall within the possible spectrum and make a non-explosive collapse of the WTC not only likely, but probable.

I don't want to restate them because I'm not a physicist and I would simply be spewing out somebody else's ideas.

 

[DomS]

Where are the hardly boys when we need them.....I've got a raging clue right now.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: DomS
Where are the hardly boys when we need them.....I've got a raging clue right now.

You looking to take them to Brokeback to investigate?

 

[Dufusyte]

Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

dude, where the FUCK do you guys come from .

 

[JeepinEd]

Since none of the conspiracy guys replied to my previous statement, I'd like to elaborate on it a bit. If the government put bombs in the building, why bother with the planes? If they put bombs in the WTC7 building to increase the total damage, why not just put bombs in the towers in a way that would cause them to topple over? Not only would the greatly increase the damage, but would also require less work, less explosives and reduce the chances of getting caught.
If they were going to fly planes into three other buildings, then why bother with a missile for the Pentagon? Why not keep in consistent and fly a plane into the Pentagon as well? Why risk someone videotaping a missile slamming into it?

 

[NeoV]

I have to say something here.

I've been on the internet since the Compuserve days in the early 90's.....


And the initial thread is perhaps the single dumbest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

It's Jesse Ventura - former pro wrestler. You have NO IDEA how much he does or does not know about explosives, regardless of his military past.

Take 10 seconds, do a google search, and you'll see that this RIDICULOUS myth has been debunked by people that are a lot smarter than JESSE GODDAMN VENTURA.

I feel sorry for the future of this country that some people are this unintelligent.

Did you ever see the World Trade Centers before they fell? Have you ever seen the Sears Tower in Chicago? Imagine two of those, then have them collapse - it's really difficult for you to imagine a nearby building being destroyed in that scenario?

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: NeoV
I have to say something here.

I've been on the internet since the Compuserve days in the early 90's.....


And the initial thread is perhaps the single dumbest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

It's Jesse Ventura - former pro wrestler. You have NO IDEA how much he does or does not know about explosives, regardless of his military past.

Take 10 seconds, do a google search, and you'll see that this RIDICULOUS myth has been debunked by people that are a lot smarter than JESSE GODDAMN VENTURA.

I feel sorry for the future of this country that some people are this unintelligent.

Did you ever see the World Trade Centers before they fell? Have you ever seen the Sears Tower in Chicago? Imagine two of those, then have them collapse - it's really difficult for you to imagine a nearby building being destroyed in that scenario?

The problem with asking such questions is that they will come up with some asinine theory which we will have to disprove. See sig.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

LOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOLL

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

Even if this bullshit is true:

Yes, because we've been bathing in cheap oil since taking over Iraq. :roll:

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

:laugh: Thanks I needed a good laugh right now.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

Even if this bullshit is true:

Yes, because we've been bathing in cheap oil since taking over Iraq. :roll:

lol There goals wouldnt be cheap oil for americans but steep oil profits for their oil empires and friends. all about corporate profits nothing to do with whats good with for the US citizens. Bush is oil boy from texas remember?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Feds say fires downed building next to twin towers

 

[Josh]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

Even if this bullshit is true:

Yes, because we've been bathing in cheap oil since taking over Iraq. :roll:

lol There goals wouldnt be cheap oil for americans but steep oil profits for their oil empires and friends. all about corporate profits nothing to do with whats good with for the US citizens. Bush is oil boy from texas remember?

You guys just LOVE to jump on each others theories. Anything each other's small brain imagines the other takes and runs with.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Josh

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

Even if this bullshit is true:

Yes, because we've been bathing in cheap oil since taking over Iraq. :roll:

lol There goals wouldnt be cheap oil for americans but steep oil profits for their oil empires and friends. all about corporate profits nothing to do with whats good with for the US citizens. Bush is oil boy from texas remember?

You guys just LOVE to jump on each others theories. Anything each other's small brain imagines the other takes and runs with.

Troll collective? The troll mind? Troll-borg?

 

[Josh]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
Here's the timeline of relevant events:

1. Bush & Cheney come to office and immediately conduct closed door Energy Hearings wherein they discuss earth's dwindling oil resources and plan a strategy: capture the Middle East fields.

2. To garner support for the operation, the events of 911 are staged, either as a "We did it to ourselves" or "We allowed them to do it to us" operation.

3. Seize Afghanistan to secure oil pipeline route from the Caspian Sea oil deposits to a warm water port.

4. Seize Iraq and preferably Iran as well.

This plan was laid out for all to see by the Project for the New American Century, many of whose members filled high positions in the Bush administration. Their goals have been largely achieved.

*sigh*...

The problem with trying to claim that the war in Iraq was preordained during some secret meeting with Bush/Cheney is that the United States government has been trying to find a way to get rid of Saddam Hussein since the Gulf War. In an interview with David Frum in 2004 he went into detail on this subject:

"The idea that overthrowing Saddam Hussein sprung out of the minds of a few people in Washington forgets an awful lot of history. In the 2000 election, both candidates spoke openly about the need to deal with Saddam Hussein. Al Gore was actually more emphatic on the topic than George Bush was. In 1998, Congress passed and President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. Just to show how conspiratorial they were, they put it in the Congressional record. In 1995, the CIA tried to organize a coup against Saddam Hussein and it failed.

The coup was secret, but it has been written about in 5 or 6 books that I know of. In 1991, representatives of President George H. W. Bush went on the radio and urged the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam Hussein. So America's policy on Saddam has been consistent. What we have been arguing about for years are the methods. First, we tried to encourage a rebellion in Iraq, that didn't work. Then we tried coups; that didn't work. Then in 1998, we tried funding Iraqi opposition. That might have worked, but the money never actually got appropriated. Then, ultimately we tried direct military power. The idea that Saddam should go has been the policy of the United States since 1991."

The reality is just as Frum pointed out: overthrowing Saddam Hussein one way or another was the policy of the US government for more than a decade before the war in Iraq and the disagreement was over how to do it. That argument was settled in many people's minds by 9/11, not by Bush/Cheney conspiracy.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: Josh

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
lol There goals wouldnt be cheap oil for americans but steep oil profits for their oil empires and friends. all about corporate profits nothing to do with whats good with for the US citizens. Bush is oil boy from texas remember?

You guys just LOVE to jump on each others theories. Anything each other's small brain imagines the other takes and runs with.

Troll collective? The troll mind? Troll-borg?

im not believing it im just saying if they were going to go through all that trouble to accomplish those goals it would NOT be so we pay less at the pump.


Nested quotes suck!

ATOT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Josh]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: Josh

You guys just LOVE to jump on each others theories. Anything each other's small brain imagines the other takes and runs with.

Troll collective? The troll mind? Troll-borg?

im not believing it im just saying if they were going to go through all that trouble to accomplish those goals it would NOT be so we pay less at the pump.

Umm then why would Bush not only support but call on congress to lift the ban on off-shore drilling? Wouldn't that in result reduce profits/prices of oil? Jeez, you really have no idea what you are talking about do you - this just proves that you jump on each other's unsubstantiated theories. You should stop trying now.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Feds say fires downed building next to twin towers

doh!