Internet Connection Problem is Driving Me INSANE!

[Navaros]

I recently made a thread about this on the Tech Support board because I didn't realize that the Networking board is also for Tech Support regarding Networks. Apologies to the mods, I don't know any of them so I couldn't tell them to move my other thread. They can delete the recent thread from Tech Support if they so choose. That link is here.

I decided to move the discussion to Networking instead because maybe I might get more numerous replies on this board and maybe someone might be able to identify and solve my problem on this board.

Here is the content of my most recent thread:

This saga has been chronicled in the following two threads:

Thread 1
Thread 2

My ISP is blaming everything under the sun for my connection not working properly. First they blamed my modem. I am now sure it's not my modem causing the problem. Now they started blaming my Ethernet card and OS.

I installed a brand new Ethernet card. Now when I boot up I get the message in my system tray "Limited or no connectivity" and if I click on status is says: "This problem is occurred because the network did not assign a network address to the computer."

I am using Windows XP Pro SP2. I've read this is a common problem among SP2 users, yet I've never seen any way to fix it. I know I somehow fixed this problem when it occurred a few months ago (when I first installed the OS) without turning the notification off, but I can't remember how I did that.

I am not sure if this relates at all to my previous problem as listed in the above linked to threads, or if this is a new problem that is freshly occurring as of my installation of the new Ethernet card.

I tried doing /ipconfig release and then /ip config renew, but when I do the "renew" part then it says: "An error occurred while renewing interface Local Area Connection 14: Unable to contact your DHCP server. Request has timed out."

My questions are:

1. How do I fix the "Limited or no connectivity" problem without simply turning the notification of it off?

2. Is this related to the problem listed in the above linked threads?

3. How do I finally make my Internet start working normally again?


Then lenjack said: "Forgive me if you've already done so, but did you install the network adaptor found on your mobo cd?"

Then I said:

"I presume it would have done so but I am not specifically sure if it did so or not.

I used the default install of the P5W DH Deluxe CD.

In Device Manager I have a yellow question and exclamation mark next to "Other Devices", "RTL8187_Wireless" but I have no idea what that is or how to fix it or if it has anything to do with this problem."

Some more questions:

5. By the way I just noticed that my new Ethernet card is does not have any IP address. How do I make it get one when ipconfig /renew won't work?

6. How is it that I am able to connect to and use the Internet using the very same Ethernet and and modem that won't get an IP address via ipconfig /renew?

7. Is the DHCP server my ISP's computer, or my own computer? My ISP told me this is not their problem that I can't connect to the DHCP server. Is that true? Is it my problem, or my ISP's problem?

8. Why would two separate Ethernet cards both have this same problem?

9. If no one here knows how to fix my problem then what can I do so that someone somewhere will be able to fix it for me?

 

[spidey07]

As much as I hate to resort to a reinstall of the OS to fix any kind of network problem, it sounds like that's what you need.

 

[Lemon law]

Before you nuke that hard drive---you might try a shot in the dark and rebuild your winsock--can't hurt and might help.

 

[Navaros]

Tried resetting my Winsock catalog and whatnot but that didn't help.

How come you guys can't identify the problem so I can isolate and fix it?

Was hoping for a better answer rather than formatting my drive. :Q

KGBMAN posted in my other thread about this then that made me notice that I needed to make a correction to my info as stated in this thread too:

Actually when I check my Zoom modem now I noticed that I do get the renew IP address on my Zoom modem, which is the same IP address I had to logon to to configure it initially via the Admin ID and PW supplied by my ISP for that configuration site.

But even so, the connection problem is the same.

When I plug in my Dlink modem, neither of my NICs will get an IP address as they cannot contact the DHCP server. Yet I can still use my connection with my Dlink modem even though the NIC has no IP address with it.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Navaros
How come you guys can't identify the problem so I can isolate and fix it?

The "simple" approach to troubleshooting this, that requires zero knowledge of networking:
Borrow a known-good PC and network cable and hook them up to your modem. If everything works, then it's your PC. If it doesn't work, then it's a problem with the modem or your ISP.

EDIT:
As bruceb pointed out, my original statement (above) was backwards. I've edited it to the correct statement. Sorry.

That's the main reason why I carry an XP laptop when I visit a client. To have a known-good PC for the troubleshooting process.

Once you decide where the problem lies, you can start to fix it.

 

[Navaros]

That's a good tip, RebateMonger, but easier said then done. It's not so easy to find a known-good PC to "borrow".

It's not the network cable because I've tried with both my own old network cable and the brand new one supplied by my ISP with the Zoom modem - neither of them has any effect on the problem.

 

[bruceb]

I think you got that backwards .. if the Known Good Works, then his PC is the problem
If it Fails the same way, it is the Modem / Router or the ISP / Internet Line

 

[JackMDS]

First try this, http://www.ezlan.net/debug.html

Otherwise, in reality it is very hard to solve problems like this by taking the IT Pro?s School Professor approach.

The main reason that a lot of senior members here can solve problems is a combination of Knowledge and a lot of Spare Hardware.

I tell every friend that they should get a Cable/DSL Router even if they have only one computer.

Besides getting Hardware Firewall, protection the Router take care of the ISP Authentication and creates a buffer between the Internet External IP and the LAN internal IP. It makes it easier to isolate problems. It also make it to configure and make sure that your Computer?s networking system is working correctly since you can test it and set it by interacting with the Router, rather than through the ISP connection.

As an example. Rebate Monger (above post) is a good advice. Nevertheless, if you were going to bring a good computer and connect it to the Modem it would not work because of authentication problem (Wrong MAC for Cable, or No PPPOE ID/PW for DSL).

However if you had a Router it can help to solve the mystery? Sine you can bring a good computer plug it to the Router and evaluate both Network and Internet issues.

P.S. Most ISPs tend to present their on line computer testing as the utmost test to the viability of their part of the system.

It is a simple misrepresentation, things might be wrong on their side of the isle even if their computer is showing that every thing is OK. Therefore, if s good computer connected to the Modem, with the correct Authentication does not work. The client must insist that they should come over and test the output of the Modem.

 

[Journer]

this could be a LOT of things...

make sure the DHCP server is on and your PC is set to DHCP
i would try resetting the modem to default settings
try and rebuild your winsock
get a friend with a laptop to come test it...

so many things that could be wrong...if you cant fig it out...maybe reload the OS...if not, call you local tech support company

 

[Navaros]

How do I check if the DHCP server is on?

Still not sure if inability to connect to the DHCP server is my problem or my ISP's problem?

 

[Journer]

Originally posted by: Navaros
How do I check if the DHCP server is on?

Still not sure if inability to connect to the DHCP server is my problem or my ISP's problem?

checking if the DHCP server is on is different depending on your modem...call your ISP and tell them to walk you through it

 

[Navaros]

My ISP today told me that the DHCP server is my router, is that correct? Then I tried to ask what the DHCP server is if I'm using an ADSL modem with no router, and he couldn't answer that in an understandable way.

I've asked that question on this site in the original post too, but no one answered me about what machine or component the DHCP server is, exactly.

I still have absolutely no idea how to solve this problem.

I did a fresh OS install on a different hard drive and the problem remains identical on that fresh install with both modems.

Are any of you here able to analyze traceroutes to isolate if it's a problem with my ISP?

I am still especially confused why I can't get an IP address renew command to work with my old modem, yet I can with my new modem, but the connection is really messed up in an identical way in either case.

Presuming it's not a network card hardware problem, network cable problem, or modem hardware problem, then what all else might it be? Can I get a list?

 

[NuroMancer]

Before I get to your question about DHCP,

I have a different question first:

a) you have a board with 2 networks cards in the box correct? Are any 2 plugged in?

b) you "have no ip address" but can browse the internet?

If you wouldn't mind open up a command prompt type "ipconfig /all" and copy and paste the results into a post.

Then run a traceroute "tracert www.google.com" and post it here as well.

 

[NuroMancer]

DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) is a protocol that computers use to obtain IP addresses, the default gateway, subnet mask, and IP addresses of DNS servers from a DHCP server. IF you don't have a accessable DHCP server then it has to be statically entered. DHCP also makes sure that you don't get the same address as someone else. Cause this will cause a conflict, and things go bad from there.

In your case it is what will allow you to have a ip address assigned to you, that will work on your providers network.

am still especially confused why I can't get an IP address renew command to work with my old modem, yet I can with my new modem, but the connection is really messed up in an identical way in either case.

When you switch to a new modem, typically the ISP will "deregister" the old modem from the network so that it will no longer work properly.

 

[Navaros]

I made the thread on this board because initially no one on the Tech Board knew how to help me with the same problem.

Then after I made this thread KGBMAN post in my original thread about this so I've been carrying on with his help with testing and stuff back in the original thread although we still haven't been able to solve the problem as of yet. I welcome all the help I can get from him and all of you. In case you guys wanna review what me and him have been through so far that link again is here.

I was using my own Dlink modem prior to my ISP sending me a new one to combat this problem. I do not think they deregistered my old modem or anything like that. When I use my old Dlink modem, I can connect to the Internet and use it in the same way I can as with my new Zoom modem supplied by my ISP.

With the old Dlink modem I cannot contact the DHCP server ever nor get an IP address, yet I can use the Internet just the same regardless of that. But my connection problem remains.

With my new Zoom modem it has a router built into it too, and with that I can contact the DHCP server and get an IP address every time. But I still have the same connection problem regardless of that.

The technician from my ISP told me the Zoom modem gets the IP address from the built-in router. So I'm wondering, when I use my old Dlink modem with no router, where is that supposed to get it's IP address from?

Here is a traceroute I did with my new modem:




Hop # Hostname IP Address 1st 2nd 3rd
1 204-11-33-1.fe-0-1.core1.troy.waveform.net (204.11.33.1) 2.385 ms 0.698 ms 0.432 ms
2 ds3-2-0-0.core1.sfld2.waveform.net (216.29.182.46) 2.081 ms 1.305 ms 2.241 ms
3 66.237.110.53.ptr.us.xo.net (66.237.110.53) 1.922 ms 1.239 ms 1.556 ms
4 p4-3-0.mar1.southfield-mi.us.xo.net (207.88.84.105) 3.478 ms 2.174 ms 1.456 ms
5 p5-2-0-1.rar1.chicago-il.us.xo.net (65.106.6.173) 7.475 ms 7.205 ms 9.881 ms
6 p0-0.ir1.chicago2-il.us.xo.net (65.106.6.134) 7.831 ms 7.441 ms 8.19 ms
7 bpr1-so-2-1-0.chicagoequinix.savvis.net (208.174.226.21) 8.36 ms 8.739 ms 7.845 ms
8 dcr2-so-4-3-0.chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.237) 8.894 ms
dcr1-so-0-1-0.chicago.savvis.net (204.70.193.249) 7.855 ms
dcr2-so-4-3-0.chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.237) 8.803 ms
9 dcr2-so-5-0-0.chicago.savvis.net (204.70.192.46) 8.629 ms 9.571 ms
bcs1-so-0-0-0.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.192.102) 39.013 ms
10 bcs1-so-0-0-0.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.192.102) 35.825 ms
aer1-ge-2-1.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.193.34) 35.104 ms
aer1-ge-5-13.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.192.154) 34.2 ms
11 aer1-ge-2-1.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.193.34) 35.7 ms
nlayer.newyork.savvis.net (216.91.97.6) 33.268 ms
aer1-ge-5-14.newyork.savvis.net (204.70.192.226) 34.543 ms
12 nlayer.newyork.savvis.net (216.91.97.6) 33.369 ms
po1.ar1.nyc3.us.nlayer.net (69.31.95.130) 31.833 ms
nlayer.newyork.savvis.net (216.91.97.6) 31.993 ms
13 0.tge1-1.ar1.mtl1.us.nlayer.net (69.22.142.110) 40.183 ms 39.923 ms
po1.ar1.nyc3.us.nlayer.net (69.31.95.130) 34.5 ms
14 interdotnet.151.po1.ar1.mtl1.ca.nlayer.net (69.31.142.10) 41.318 ms
0.tge1-1.ar1.mtl1.us.nlayer.net (69.22.142.110) 40.333 ms 40.863 ms
15 faste-0-0-100.ar00.yul1.ca.inter.net (206.126.95.2) 40.909 ms
interdotnet.151.po1.ar1.mtl1.ca.nlayer.net (69.31.142.10) 40.605 ms
faste-0-0-100.ar00.yul1.ca.inter.net (206.126.95.2) 41.684 ms
16 ip-199.57.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net (216.99.57.199) 95.283 ms
faste-0-0-100.ar00.yul1.ca.inter.net (206.126.95.2) 43.93 ms
ip-199.57.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net (216.99.57.199) 93.024 ms


Here is a traceroute my ISP did to me about a week ago:


U:\>tracert 216.99.57.9

Tracing route to ip-9.57.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net [216.99.57.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 192.168.95.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms e1.mastercraft.ops.inter.net [207.107.233.33]
3 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms A-f4-0-0-124-S1.gw2.mtl1.rogerstelecom.net [207.
107.247.141]
4 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms g8-0-3-S1.bb1.mtl1.rogerstelecom.net [207.107.25
4.1]
5 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms mto-peer.qix.qc.ca [192.77.55.13]
6 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms ge-0-3-0.core1.mtl1.mtotelecom.net [64.254.224.7
3]
7 2 ms 3 ms 2 ms inter.net-gw.customer.mtotelecom.net [64.254.225
.122]
8 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms faste-1-0-103.ar03.yul1.ca.inter.net [206.126.95
.30]
9 4 ms 4 ms 3 ms ip-106.95.126.206.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net [206.126
.95.106]
10 55 ms 57 ms 56 ms ip-9.57.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net [216.99.57.
9]

Trace complete.

U:\>

 

[NuroMancer]

The technician from my ISP told me the Zoom modem gets the IP address from the built-in router. So I'm wondering, when I use my old Dlink modem with no router, where is that supposed to get it's IP address from?

Your ISP's DHCP server - OR - a statically set address.

With my new Zoom modem it has a router built into it too, and with that I can contact the DHCP server and get an IP address every time. But I still have the same connection problem regardless of that.

Thats because it has a built in DHCP server running.

With the old Dlink modem I cannot contact the DHCP server ever nor get an IP address, yet I can use the Internet just the same regardless of that. But my connection problem remains.

If you don't get a IP address from DHCP, then it must be statically set. Do you know how to check that? You cannot browse the internet without an IP address.

 

[JackMDS]

The pages below were written a while ago. Ignore the prices and the Hardware recommendations, stick to the principles.[/i]

Link to: AnandTech - FAQ. Basic Options for Internet Connection Sharing

Link to: AnandTech - FAQ. Hubs, routers, switches, DSL, LANs, WANs...?

Link to: AnandTech - FAQ. What do I need for wireless Networking?

The whole thing should look like this.

http://www.ezlan.net/network/router.jpg

About DSL, http://www.ezlan.net/PPPOE.html

About IPs, http://www.ezlan.net/ip_mac.html

 

[Navaros]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer


If you don't get a IP address from DHCP, then it must be statically set. Do you know how to check that? You cannot browse the internet without an IP address.

No, I don't know how to check that.

Is it normal for a DSL modem with no router to not be able to contact the DHCP server or use the ipconfig /renew command? Is that a problem with my ISP?

Does my traceroutes tell you anything?

 

[Fraggable]

Any router (router is a box with multiple ports to connect multiple computers, not to be confused with a DSL modem) will assign an IP address of 192.168.x.x whether it is connected to the internet or not. In a normal home network, you would have the internet come in via a phone line to the DSL modem, then the router would be connected to the DSL modem - and the ROUTER will obtain a single IP address and 2 DHCP server addresses FROM THE ISP's SERVERS. The router will then accept communications from the PCs and forward it to the ISP's DHCP servers. To the PC, it appears that its IP address of 192.168.x.x is the IP that the world sees, but that is not the case. That is only the IP that the router assigned to the PC within your home.

Furthermore, the DHCP server address that the PC obtains from the router will normally be 192.168.0.1 or similar. This is the IP address of the router itself on your private LAN. This is NOT the DHCP server at the ISP. Your router basically is a DHCP server that forwards communications to the IPS's DHCP server.

 

[Navaros]

Don't understand that post very well, Fraggable. Thanks for trying to help me though.

I am still confused about this point: if I am using an a DSL modem and no router, and my computer fails to contact the DHCP server every time I try to renew my IP address, then is that a problem with my computer, or is that a problem with my ISP? On a similar note, I also do not understand why I can still use the Internet with the same modem despite the fact that it cannot ever contact the DHCP server to renew the IP address.

I need to know whether to get on my ISP's case about this or not and it would help me a lot if I understand the answer to that question. They tell me it's not their problem and it's my problem - is that correct, and if so, why?

 

[NuroMancer]

Ok, Start, Control Panel, Network connections,
Right click the active interface and then hit properties,
You should see text "Internet Protocol(TCP/IP) if you don't see this type everthing in the middle white box out,
click internet protocol and hit properties, Check and see if anything is entered here AND check the Alternate configuration tab.


Let us know what do see.

 

[Navaros]

It is set to obtain an IP address automatically and Obtain DNS server address automatically.


Under Alternate configuration it is set to "Automatic private IP address".

 

[RebateMonger]

Navaros,

Aren't you tiring of this problem yet?

Not having a router in place is a security risk. And not having either a router or a "known-good PC" makes it impossible to ever solve this problem.

Buy a router.
Set the WAN side of the router to "Use a Dynamic IP address".
Hook the router up to your DSL modem.

If the router can't obtain an IP addess from your ISP, then you have a problem with your ISP or with your DSL modem.

 

[Navaros]

RebateMonger, I have absolutely no idea how routers work or how it would help me.

Yes, I am very very very tired of this problem but when I seek answers so far I am hitting a brick wall with no one being able to identify or fix my problem. I would love for this problem to be solved, who can do that for me?

My Zoom modem has an in-built router in it. Yet the problem is the same with that enabled. Doesn't that negate the benefit of me buying a router?

I don't know anything at all about routers so to understand how this can help my problem I'd need an extremely dumbed-down explanation.

 

[JackMDS]

Yeah you did not read the pages that I suggest above,:Q:roll: and for 11 days, you are going in circles.

Routers protects from Internet Hacking, and keeps the DSL connetcion alive independent from the computer.

If the Router is new and can not keep the connection alive it is a BAD DSL Modem, or ISP trouble. I.e it is not your computer.

http://www.ezlan.net/PPPOE.html

So check to see if your ZOOM Combo is set to keep the DSL On.

If the ZOOM was given to you by the ISP ask them jhow check or and read the manual.

If you need a new Router, this is currently very popular, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833162173