Intrested in CS major

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: amoeba
phoenix, I don't think he is threadcrapping. While us EEs currently don't face as much outsourcing pressure, I guarantee you that in 5 to 10 years, we will be dealing with the same stuff.

The reality is that there are many capable workers abroad who are willing to work for much less.

EEs and MEs are actually predicted to be in shortage in the next 10 years. Maybe in 30 or so the tables will turn, but I'll worry about that later.

And yes, there are many capable workers abroad. But the elite of other countries go the U.S. or Europe for their education, where they proceed to work and live. If you did menial tasks that anyone could do, then yes, you're not going to enjoy a great deal of job security. If you're a skilled professional, there is still a demand for your services, no matter how many low-rent programmers might crop up underneath you. You just have to make sure you don't end up as one of them.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

You'll also notice that I do hang around a lot of CS majors, as they share some of my curriculum, and the ones that have acquired work experience before leaving college have been very successful in finding jobs in the real world, much like any other major.

You'll also notice that you're a threadcrapping troll who should go DIAF. kthxbye.

I seemed to have touched a nerve. Instead of viewing my post as a possibility of what may happen, you view it as a threat and lash out at me. I hate to break it to you, but it does concern you. Outsourcing is not only happening in the IT business. Electrical engineers get outsourced also. And so do accountants, and actuaries. Just about any job that commands a high salary is ripe for outsourcing.

Don't kill the messenger. I didn't start this trend and I can't stop it.

I love it when people insult your viewpoint and imply that you think you are "above" something, failing to recognize that you might have already considered the risks inherent your own future and the path you're on, then when you tell them to STFU its because they "touched a nerve". Your stupidity astounds me.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
But the elite of other countries go the U.S. or Europe for their education, where they proceed to work and live. If you did menial tasks that anyone could do, then yes, you're not going to enjoy a great deal of job security. If you're a skilled professional, there is still a demand for your services, no matter how many low-rent programmers might crop up underneath you. You just have to make sure you don't end up as one of them.

Your view is misguided.. Everyone here seems to view people in India and China as monkeys that can only do menial tasks. That is definitely not the case. They are people, too, and can learn anything that we can. Our country only has about 280 million people. Those two countries have a combined population of about 2.5 billion.

Also, it only takes 4 years to complete college. Even if there was a drastic shortage in a certain industry, simple economics (supply/demand) will raise the salary of workers in that industry. Suddenly it's a lucrative career and 4 years later schools are pumping out millions of workers that will flood the market and lower salaries.

 

[yllus]

Until the problems caused by time lag, miscommunication due to distance and cultural differences are finally solved, there will always be a market for good computer science workers on this continent. Frankly, those who say otherwise probably just couldn't cut it.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: amoeba
phoenix, I don't think he is threadcrapping. While us EEs currently don't face as much outsourcing pressure, I guarantee you that in 5 to 10 years, we will be dealing with the same stuff.

The reality is that there are many capable workers abroad who are willing to work for much less.

EEs and MEs are actually predicted to be in shortage in the next 10 years. Maybe in 30 or so the tables will turn, but I'll worry about that later.

And yes, there are many capable workers abroad. But the elite of other countries go the U.S. or Europe for their education, where they proceed to work and live. If you did menial tasks that anyone could do, then yes, you're not going to enjoy a great deal of job security. If you're a skilled professional, there is still a demand for your services, no matter how many low-rent programmers might crop up underneath you. You just have to make sure you don't end up as one of them.

again, we would like to think that its just the menial jobs that are being outsourced but its just not true. R & D will get outsourced at least partially as well. And contrary to what you believe, the elite do not all go abroad for their education as number of visas are very limited. Prestigious universities in India and China are just as tough if not tougher.

I work in R & D for a fairly major microprocessor producer. I graduated from a very good engineering program and work with people who went to even better programs (MIT, Stanford, whatever). I will assure you right now that no matter the level of your degree or the prestige of your school, there is a lot of risk towards outsourcing. If you don'tworry about outsourcing, maybe you should.

My only advice is keep yourself flexible. Don't stick to the same technical material and be able to adapt to other things.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

I love it when people insult your viewpoint and imply that you think you are "above" something, failing to recognize that you might have already considered the risks inherent your own future and the path you're on, then when you tell them to STFU its because they "touched a nerve". Your stupidity astounds me.

I don't claim to be above the fray. The same rules of economics work against me just as they will work against you.

The difference is that I have quite a bit more experience than you do and I have hindsight at my side. You're an inexperienced student who hasn't been out in the workforce, trying to tell someone who has been in it for 10 years that he has no idea what he's talking about.

I'm sure when you're my age you'll have the experience just as I do now. And I'm sure that you, too, will have trouble convincing college age kids that you know what you're talking about. Experience only makes you wiser.

I'm not trying to crap on your career. I"m just saying to be prepared because the floor CAN fall out from under you. We might like to think that something so drastic won't happen to us, but it can (and has happened to me a couple times already). It's very humbling.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: amoeba
again, we would like to think that its just the menial jobs that are being outsourced but its just not true. R & D will get outsourced at least partially as well.

Not in nearly the same proportions.

And contrary to what you believe, the elite do not all go abroad for their education as number of visas are very limited. Prestigious universities in India and China are just as tough if not tougher.

Also true, but the number of graduates they put out is not immensely huge, and they aren't the people that take the majority of outsourced jobs. Its the common stuff that's floating away from this country.

My only advice is keep yourself flexible. Don't stick to the same technical material and be able to adapt to other things.

Sound advice, certainly.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The difference is that I have quite a bit more experience than you do and I have hindsight at my side. You're an inexperienced student who hasn't been out in the workforce, trying to tell someone who has been in it for 10 years that he has no idea what he's talking about.

I'm sure when you're my age you'll have the experience just as I do now. And I'm sure that you, too, will have trouble convincing college age kids that you know what you're talking about. Experience only makes you wiser.

And your profession is...?

Take my word for it, I've taken my future quite seriously and everything I've said until now I have reason to believe. I still see bright students a couple years older than me find ways into jobs that start with $100k a year, and I see equally bright students graduate and not be able to find jobs because they didn't work to excel from the masses of graduates. The ones who don't let themselves fall into the melting pot remain in high demand.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
And your profession is...?

Take my word for it, I've taken my future quite seriously and everything I've said until now I have reason to believe. I still see bright students a couple years older than me find ways into jobs that start with $100k a year, and I see equally bright students graduate and not be able to find jobs because they didn't work to excel from the masses of graduates. The ones who don't let themselves fall into the melting pot remain in high demand.

I'm a systems engineer at IBM, with the Intel architecture server team.

I'm just saying that you're still a student who hasn't seen the ruthless business world firsthand yet. You still believe what schools tell you, without taking into consideration that schools have a bias. They say what serves them.

In the business world, money is the bottom line. A business would not save much money outsourcing a janitor to an H1B visa worker from India. On the other hand they'd save a hell of a lot of money by outsourcing the R&D department to India.

Knowledge (data) is very easy to transfer over a wire. You can design a circuit in India and send the finished design to a US office over the network. Most large design firms have outsourced their design houses to India. The US technical workforce is shrinking while the Indian/Chinese technical workforce is growing. It's all about labor costs.

 

[amoeba]

damn 91TTZ, based on what companies we work for, you should technically be my sworn enemy.

: )

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
In the business world, money is the bottom line. A business would not save much money outsourcing a janitor to an H1B visa worker from India. On the other hand they'd save a hell of a lot of money by outsourcing the R&D department to India.

Knowledge (data) is very easy to transfer over a wire. You can design a circuit in India and send the finished design to a US office over the network. Most large design firms have outsourced their design houses to India. The US technical workforce is shrinking while the Indian/Chinese technical workforce is growing. It's all about labor costs.

I understand all that. My only point is that the students who strive to define themselves as exceptional aren't going to be ignored in the face of a growing workforce. There will always be a market for those who aren't standard-issue graduates. I've seen enough examples of it myself to belive this is the case.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: amoeba
damn 91TTZ, based on what companies we work for, you should technically be my sworn enemy.

: )

lol, who do you work for? Intel?

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: amoeba
damn 91TTZ, based on what companies we work for, you should technically be my sworn enemy.

: )

lol, who do you work for? Intel?

no, Sun Micro. you guys are out of the PC business so Intel isn't your enemy anymore.

 

[cosine17]

cs wasnt the right major for me. what did it was the knowledge that id spend the rest of my life in front fo a computer from 9-5 coding uninteresting crap like bank software or waffle maker timer software. I also hated the other people in the major. My suggestion, if you are having second thoughts now so soon, you probably are looking for something else.

IT is a popular choice, as is Software Engineering.

I did the complete 180 and am considering history or poly sci.

good luck.

 

[Gooose]

To get into anything else about computers i first have to be in the major (network, IT, etc..)

 

[bbqbread]

pick a major that can help you earn a living and help you land a job with 0 experience.

even though you may dislike your job, you will be able to live on your own and SAVE money. This money can fund your future interests which in turn let you make money off of that hobby.

so far the money making degrees are nursing and engineering.

so take you pick, be stressed over a job, or stressed over bills.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: bbqbread
pick a major that can help you earn a living and help you land a job with 0 experience.

even though you may dislike your job, you will be able to live on your own and SAVE money. This money can fund your future interests which in turn let you make money off of that hobby.

so far the money making degrees are nursing and engineering.

so take you pick, be stressed over a job, or stressed over bills.

to add to that,

invest invest invest.

and don't buy a car that is more than 1/3 of your annual salary.

 

[Brassman]

Originally posted by: Semidevil
however, just to get a CS degree would require lots of math classes. If you absolutely do not want to take Calculus 1, 2, 3, 4, diffeq, linear algebra, and discrete math, then you would really need to change majors.

if you want something less intensive, then probably a MIS degree.

I only had to take Calc I/II and discrete math... no Calc III/IV, lin. alg. or d/eq... I mean, in all reality, you don't need that much math unless your going into something real math-oriented... So, if you find the *right* school, like Sac State for example, you won't have to take 4+ extra math classes to get your degree.