Invading Somalia

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: n yusef

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

:roll:



Thank god this bleeding-heart ideology has not permiated the American electorate.



No, we dont need to invade anyone right now. We just need to "kill all they send."

 

[rpanic]

Invading would just make it our problem.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Craig234
Helping Somalia get out of the poverty that drives piracy: would you agree to that?

Funny how the only option on the table for problems is invading.

You f*cking liberals with this garbage.


We have our OWN economic issues. We are printing money out of thin air just to stay afloat. We cant afford to help anyone else.


Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

We were trying to send aid there, and some drugged-out pirates decided they were going to steal it.


Hopefully every future pirate meets the same end that these last 3 did. (Well, and the ones the French killed this week as well)

I'm going to have to agree with almost everything you said except for one thing that makes your entire post real fucking stupid, "fucking liberals with this garbage". I'm most certainly a liberal and i think any sane human being is. Sure, i might be voting for the Tory party next time but i'm as liberal as any man can be.

Look up the word liberal, it doesn't mean what you think it means.

(hint: if you meant "a voter for the Democratic party" then just fucking type that, liberalism is what shaped all of the free world, starting with the UK)

 

[MovingTarget]

Somalia has to be fixed. At this point, I'm surprised that the regional powers don't do more. Hell, with no real government, widespread poverty, adequate natural resources, and strategic importance, I'm surprised that nobody has tried to flat-out colonize it. However, that word is anathema in today's PC world. Despite this though, it might be a better alternative to the chaos we're seeing now in the region.

Realistically though, I see us sending in our destroyers to blow 'em out of the water. Nobody will shed a tear for the pirates, and they make good target practice.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Somalia has to be fixed. At this point, I'm surprised that the regional powers don't do more. Hell, with no real government, widespread poverty, adequate natural resources, and strategic importance, I'm surprised that nobody has tried to flat-out colonize it. However, that word is anathema in today's PC world. Despite this though, it might be a better alternative to the chaos we're seeing now in the region.

Realistically though, I see us sending in our destroyers to blow 'em out of the water. Nobody will shed a tear for the pirates, and they make good target practice.

Not only has it been tried, it's already been done. (the colonisation i mean).

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: n yusef
No military action will stop Somali pirates. The only way to prevent this kind of theft and violence is to provide alternatives for Somalians. No matter how many pirates we kill, there will always be some who are desperate enough to try to hijack ships.

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

Really? And we don't really need the police to catch burglers and thiefs either with your wonderful solution, we just have to fix the problem that makes them criminals...

This can't be resolved with handholding or a force inside Somalia, there are too many fractions, too many warlords and no proper government so on which side should we even fight? Riddle me that.

Sure, tough tits, but it's the way it is and the priority is to get rid of piracy in the area, you have the mission, find the simplest way to do it, i've already given my solution.

Just because you call it a solution doesn't mean it will work.

 

[Genx87]

We cant fix Somalia. Only Somalians can fix it.

 

[her209]

It seems that the shipping companies don't want to pay for insurance because its cheaper to just pay the ransom.

How about arming the ships with non-lethal weapons?

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

:roll:



Thank god this bleeding-heart ideology has not permiated the American electorate.



No, we dont need to invade anyone right now. We just need to "kill all they send."

Your lack of thinking is wonderful.

Genx87 says a few posts down, "only Somalians can fix Somalia."

We need to create the environment for that to happen. That will probably mean bringing the neighboring countries together to put pressure on the Somalia factions and maybe an African peace keeping force so some government can begin to form.

There are millions of Somalis with nothing to lose, and the US would literally have to send the entire Navy to that part of the world to kill all the pirates.

The US needs to kill the pirates that come out to attack ships, but also change the country to get to the root cause of the problem. A US invasion is not the answer, but an African invasion may be.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Craig234
Helping Somalia get out of the poverty that drives piracy: would you agree to that?

Funny how the only option on the table for problems is invading.

You f*cking liberals with this garbage.


We have our OWN economic issues. We are printing money out of thin air just to stay afloat. We cant afford to help anyone else.


Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

We were trying to send aid there, and some drugged-out pirates decided they were going to steal it.


Hopefully every future pirate meets the same end that these last 3 did. (Well, and the ones the French killed this week as well)

You f*cking neo-cons with this garbage.

How about preventing foreign nations from trawling for fish of their coastal waters and preventing local fishermen from making a living? What a crazy thought, but that doesn't involve killing people, so its obviously something you never thought of.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: her209
It seems that the shipping companies don't want to pay for insurance because its cheaper to just pay the ransom.

How about arming the ships with non-lethal weapons?

Shock Grenades?

Long range pepper spray/taser guns?

Dozens of wild dogs train to bite invaders?

Hot cooking oil pour down climbing pirates?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: n yusef
No military action will stop Somali pirates. The only way to prevent this kind of theft and violence is to provide alternatives for Somalians. No matter how many pirates we kill, there will always be some who are desperate enough to try to hijack ships.

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

Really? And we don't really need the police to catch burglers and thiefs either with your wonderful solution, we just have to fix the problem that makes them criminals...

This can't be resolved with handholding or a force inside Somalia, there are too many fractions, too many warlords and no proper government so on which side should we even fight? Riddle me that.

Sure, tough tits, but it's the way it is and the priority is to get rid of piracy in the area, you have the mission, find the simplest way to do it, i've already given my solution.

Just because you call it a solution doesn't mean it will work.

I suppose that blowing them out of the water with air to water missiles with jets deployed within an hour isn't the best solution in your opinion?

It's not the first time it's been tried but if it failed it WOULD be the first time it'd failed.

What is the alternative?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Craig234
Helping Somalia get out of the poverty that drives piracy: would you agree to that?

Funny how the only option on the table for problems is invading.

You f*cking liberals with this garbage.


We have our OWN economic issues. We are printing money out of thin air just to stay afloat. We cant afford to help anyone else.


Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

We were trying to send aid there, and some drugged-out pirates decided they were going to steal it.


Hopefully every future pirate meets the same end that these last 3 did. (Well, and the ones the French killed this week as well)

You f*cking neo-cons with this garbage.

How about preventing foreign nations from trawling for fish of their coastal waters and preventing local fishermen from making a living? What a crazy thought, but that doesn't involve killing people, so its obviously something you never thought of.

This is just daft, these are not fishing trawlers, they are cargo ships.

Fishing in those waters is pretty useless.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: n yusef
No military action will stop Somali pirates. The only way to prevent this kind of theft and violence is to provide alternatives for Somalians. No matter how many pirates we kill, there will always be some who are desperate enough to try to hijack ships.

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

Really? And we don't really need the police to catch burglers and thiefs either with your wonderful solution, we just have to fix the problem that makes them criminals...

This can't be resolved with handholding or a force inside Somalia, there are too many fractions, too many warlords and no proper government so on which side should we even fight? Riddle me that.

Sure, tough tits, but it's the way it is and the priority is to get rid of piracy in the area, you have the mission, find the simplest way to do it, i've already given my solution.

Just because you call it a solution doesn't mean it will work.

I suppose that blowing them out of the water with air to water missiles with jets deployed within an hour isn't the best solution in your opinion?

It's not the first time it's been tried but if it failed it WOULD be the first time it'd failed.

What is the alternative?

A new worldwide treaty allowing ship crews to bring weapons into any foreign port they please.

Then they can be armed to fight off pirates and still carry out their shipping jobs.

After all, if everyone is packing maximum heat at all times, the world will be a safer place. Firearms should be easily accessible everywhere at all times, like fire extinguishers in those little red wall closets.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

:roll:



Thank god this bleeding-heart ideology has not permiated the American electorate.



No, we dont need to invade anyone right now. We just need to "kill all they send."

Your lack of thinking is wonderful.

Genx87 says a few posts down, "only Somalians can fix Somalia."

We need to create the environment for that to happen. That will probably mean bringing the neighboring countries together to put pressure on the Somalia factions and maybe an African peace keeping force so some government can begin to form.

There are millions of Somalis with nothing to lose, and the US would literally have to send the entire Navy to that part of the world to kill all the pirates.

The US needs to kill the pirates that come out to attack ships, but also change the country to get to the root cause of the problem. A US invasion is not the answer, but an African invasion may be.

It's already been tried, and that is a big part of the problem they have now.

The pirate ships are not that many and any carrier ship can easily provide more jets than neccessary to blow them out of the water each and every time.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: n yusef
No military action will stop Somali pirates. The only way to prevent this kind of theft and violence is to provide alternatives for Somalians. No matter how many pirates we kill, there will always be some who are desperate enough to try to hijack ships.

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

Really? And we don't really need the police to catch burglers and thiefs either with your wonderful solution, we just have to fix the problem that makes them criminals...

This can't be resolved with handholding or a force inside Somalia, there are too many fractions, too many warlords and no proper government so on which side should we even fight? Riddle me that.

Sure, tough tits, but it's the way it is and the priority is to get rid of piracy in the area, you have the mission, find the simplest way to do it, i've already given my solution.

Just because you call it a solution doesn't mean it will work.

I suppose that blowing them out of the water with air to water missiles with jets deployed within an hour isn't the best solution in your opinion?

It's not the first time it's been tried but if it failed it WOULD be the first time it'd failed.

What is the alternative?

A new worldwide treaty allowing ship crews to bring weapons into any foreign port they please.

Then they can be armed to fight off pirates and still carry out their shipping jobs.

After all, if everyone is packing maximum heat at all times, the world will be a safer place. Firearms should be easily accessible everywhere at all times, like fire extinguishers in those little red wall closets.

There is something wrong with your brain if you think that this is a viable solution.

You actually believe that ANY nation (and especially the US) would, should or could ever allow this?

THINK McFly, THINK!

 

[alpineranger]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Somalia has to be fixed. At this point, I'm surprised that the regional powers don't do more. Hell, with no real government, widespread poverty, adequate natural resources, and strategic importance, I'm surprised that nobody has tried to flat-out colonize it. However, that word is anathema in today's PC world. Despite this though, it might be a better alternative to the chaos we're seeing now in the region.

Realistically though, I see us sending in our destroyers to blow 'em out of the water. Nobody will shed a tear for the pirates, and they make good target practice.

African nations have higher priority problems to deal with, but IMO the real problem is that everyone expects the US to take care of these problems for them, and then blame the US for "imperialistic aggression" and "meddling in foreign affairs" regardless of what happens in the end. We need to stop being the world's policeman and let people like the Europeans assume their share of responsibility.

I hope the new administration takes the opportunity to make a significant change from the same tired policy that has been going unabated for the past few administrations. We don't need to be facing down Communists in every corner of the world any more. We need to focus on the military objectives that are of primary importance to us and pull back elsewhere (we've been militarily engaged in Iraq continuously for about 20 years now!)

 

[Superrock]

Investigating the core problems of the nation and trying to rebuild it seems less expensive than trying to invade it or spending the manpower to kill the pirates. Unlike the Middle East, the problems seem less complex. All the Somali people want is the means to survive.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: her209
It seems that the shipping companies don't want to pay for insurance because its cheaper to just pay the ransom.

How about arming the ships with non-lethal weapons?

Shock Grenades?

Long range pepper spray/taser guns?

Dozens of wild dogs train to bite invaders?

Hot cooking oil pour down climbing pirates?

Sonic Weaponry

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Superrock
Investigating the core problems of the nation and trying to rebuild it seems less expensive than trying to invade it or spending the manpower to kill the pirates. Unlike the Middle East, the problems seem less complex. All the Somali people want is the means to survive.

There are over 1000 warlords handling different areas in Somalia, the battles are daily and the population is in their hands.

If anything it's WAY more complex than anything you'll ever find in the ME.

 

[nonameo]

I don't care if the rest of the world's nations get together and undertake that, but the US needs to stay out of any further military type deals until we've cleaned up what we're working on now.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: n yusef
No military action will stop Somali pirates. The only way to prevent this kind of theft and violence is to provide alternatives for Somalians. No matter how many pirates we kill, there will always be some who are desperate enough to try to hijack ships.

If pirating is a problem, and I believe it is, we need to fix the nation of Somalia, not just kill a few criminals.

Really? And we don't really need the police to catch burglers and thiefs either with your wonderful solution, we just have to fix the problem that makes them criminals...

This can't be resolved with handholding or a force inside Somalia, there are too many fractions, too many warlords and no proper government so on which side should we even fight? Riddle me that.

Sure, tough tits, but it's the way it is and the priority is to get rid of piracy in the area, you have the mission, find the simplest way to do it, i've already given my solution.

Just because you call it a solution doesn't mean it will work.

I suppose that blowing them out of the water with air to water missiles with jets deployed within an hour isn't the best solution in your opinion?

It's not the first time it's been tried but if it failed it WOULD be the first time it'd failed.

What is the alternative?

A new worldwide treaty allowing ship crews to bring weapons into any foreign port they please.

Then they can be armed to fight off pirates and still carry out their shipping jobs.

After all, if everyone is packing maximum heat at all times, the world will be a safer place. Firearms should be easily accessible everywhere at all times, like fire extinguishers in those little red wall closets.

There is something wrong with your brain if you think that this is a viable solution.

You actually believe that ANY nation (and especially the US) would, should or could ever allow this?

THINK McFly, THINK!

Is it possible for you to make a point without insulting people?

 

[CanOWorms]

No sort of intervention in Africa would really be helpful without some intervention in European policy towards Africa.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Your lack of thinking is wonderful.

Genx87 says a few posts down, "only Somalians can fix Somalia."

We need to create the environment for that to happen. That will probably mean bringing the neighboring countries together to put pressure on the Somalia factions and maybe an African peace keeping force so some government can begin to form.

There are millions of Somalis with nothing to lose, and the US would literally have to send the entire Navy to that part of the world to kill all the pirates.

The US needs to kill the pirates that come out to attack ships, but also change the country to get to the root cause of the problem. A US invasion is not the answer, but an African invasion may be.

Why do we need to do anything? Why is it the United States job to create a stable environement in Somalia? If African nations want to take that up I applaud their initiative.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Africa is a European problem. They were the colonists that fvcked everything up. They should fix it.