Invading Somalia

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: alpineranger
One thing I think would be interesting is to set ambushes - put large numbers of heavily armed soldiers on "honeypot" ships and blast the pirates to kingdom come when they take the bait. I haven't heard anyone suggest this idea yet. It's not a solution, but it would give pirates something to think about and would possibly decrease the number of attacks.

I really like that idea... brilliant! :thumbsup:

Yeah, this is a great idea. All it'll do is lure terrorists into Somalia. Hell, I'm sure after hearing about how the Navy SEALs rescued the Captain today the terrorists are salivating at all the missed opportunities so far.

I tried to stay out of this thread because of its utter stupidity but the ideas here are too crazy to ignore.

LOL!! If you honestly believe that 1) Somalia needs our help or presence to lure in terrorists, or 2) that terrorists would line up to fight armed foes at sea, like our SEALS, then you're even dumber than I thought possible.

Seriously, you're an idiot.

You're the fucking idiot. A typical fucking gnat. You must've forgotten what they did to the USS Cole. For them, the environment is too perfect. Lots of civilians to kill and lots of things to destroy.

lol.. you're a riot.

1. Your last two posts are enough to demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing about Somalia or Islamic terrorism.

2. Somalia is already second only to Pakistan in terms of the number of terrorists present in the country.

3. Terrorists are already working closely with the pirates in Somalia and elsewhere.

Go back to school son.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Somalia is nowhere up that list. Most of the people fighting there are indigenous.

EDIT: There are probably more terrorists in Yemen than Somalia. More in Afghanistan, where we're losing, than Somalia. More in Lebanon than Somalia.

Oh, and I'd like to know how you were able to count the terrorists:laugh:

EDIT2: You need to do your homework before spouting off on shit you read about on CNN.com:laugh:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Somalia is nowhere up that list. Most of the people fighting there are indigenous.

Of course most of the people fighting there are indigenous -- primarily Al-Shabab -- but, that has nothing at all to do with the number of AQ present in the country, just as that same fact has nothing to do with the high number of AQ in Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Algeria, Indonesia, or Sudan.

You're uninformed son. I, on the other hand, do this for a living.

EDIT: The implementation of Sharia Law has a funny way of drawing moths to the flame...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Somalia is nowhere up that list. Most of the people fighting there are indigenous.

Of course most of the people fighting there are indigenous -- primarily Al-Shabab -- but, that has nothing at all to do with the number of AQ present in the country, just as that same fact has nothing to do with the high number of AQ in Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Algeria, Indonesia, or Sudan.

You're uninformed son. I, on the other hand, do this for a living.

Get off your high horse, asshole. Al-Shabab does not automatically mean they are terrorists. It just means "Youth". lol, I suspected you were going to say something stupid like that. If you do this for a living, then you should quit for the good of the country.

EDIT: Most of these people are young boys who are doing this for the money and security, not for religion.

EDIT2: Al Qaeda has a residual presence in Somalia. Kenya has closed their border with the country to prevent a reoccurance of the bombings that happened in the 1990s. Man, you really need to keep up with the times.:laugh:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Somalia is nowhere up that list. Most of the people fighting there are indigenous.

Of course most of the people fighting there are indigenous -- primarily Al-Shabab -- but, that has nothing at all to do with the number of AQ present in the country, just as that same fact has nothing to do with the high number of AQ in Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Algeria, Indonesia, or Sudan.

You're uninformed son. I, on the other hand, do this for a living.

Get off your high horse, asshole. Al-Shabab does not automatically mean they are terrorists. It just means "Youth". lol, I suspected you were going to say something stupid like that. If you do this for a living, then you should quit for the good of the country.

The word means "youth," for sure, <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaab_(Somalia)">but you definitely need to try and keep up with the times and realize that it means much more than that in Somalia.
</a>

Please pay particularly close attention to the section on that page titled "foreigners."

You're way out of your depth here son.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Somalia is nowhere up that list. Most of the people fighting there are indigenous.

Of course most of the people fighting there are indigenous -- primarily Al-Shabab -- but, that has nothing at all to do with the number of AQ present in the country, just as that same fact has nothing to do with the high number of AQ in Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Algeria, Indonesia, or Sudan.

You're uninformed son. I, on the other hand, do this for a living.

Get off your high horse, asshole. Al-Shabab does not automatically mean they are terrorists. It just means "Youth". lol, I suspected you were going to say something stupid like that. If you do this for a living, then you should quit for the good of the country.

The word means "youth," for sure, <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaab_(Somalia)">but you definitely need to try and keep up with the times and realize that it means much more than that in Somalia.
</a>

You're way out of your depth here man.

lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:? Like I said, just because they are part of that organization does not mean they are terrorists. The only foreigners these people hate are Ethiopians. And religion serves as an umbrella to bring some form of unity, not as a banner for war.

Seriously, stop posting. You have no idea what these groups are and what they really want.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Dari

lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:? Like I said, just because they are part of that organization does not mean they are terrorists. The only foreigners these people hate are Ethiopians. And religion serves as an umbrella to bring some form of unity, not as a banner for war.

Seriously, stop posting. You have no idea what these groups are and what they really want.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to PH. If he actually works in intel at all, he's probably very new to it. Not only is he a reservist, but he had talked in the past about being in the infantry, which would mean that he's changed MOS over to intel sometime in the relatively recent past. So... most likely he's the E-6 or whatever that comes in to a division after cross-rating that everyone ignores because he has no idea what he's doing.

 

[Drift3r]

What is there to gain by invading Somalia? Answer: Nothing

Placing it under a complete naval and air embargo would be more reasonable then having boots on the ground. So the answer is no I would not be for an invasion of Somalia.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:?

Did you expect JWICS links?! Wiki is a perfectly acceptable source for getting my point across, and it just so happens to be fairly accurate on the subject of Al-Shabab.

That point was that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about here -- and it still stands. It's obvious that you're reading one news article at a time in an effort to keep up with what I'm writing back to you. Your inserted "EDITs" makes that quite obvious.

I'm laughing at you right now.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I wouldn't pay too much attention to PH. If he actually works in intel at all, he's probably very new to it. Not only is he a reservist, but he had talked in the past about being in the infantry, which would mean that he's changed MOS over to intel sometime in the relatively recent past. So... most likely he's the E-6 or whatever that comes in to a division after cross-rating that everyone ignores because he has no idea what he's doing.

LOL... so being former infantry makes me an idiot? got it.

Do you have anything intelligent to say regarding any of the points I've made concerning Somalia and the very high presence of terrorists who are already there? Or, are you here to join Dari in telling me that Al-Shabab is simply a group of 5,000 to 10,000 misunderstood kids with guns?

:roll: you kids crack me up.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:?

Did you expect JWICS links?! Wiki is a perfectly acceptable source for getting my point across, and it just so happens to be fairly accurate on the subject of Al-Shabab.

That point was that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about here -- and it still stands. It's obvious that you're reading one news article at a time in an effort to keep up with what I'm writing back to you. Your inserted "EDITs" makes that quite obvious.

I'm laughing at you right now.

lol, your arguments are bringing back a lot of memories. That is why I add edits. Everythign is fluid. It's like arguing with a child. I've studied this region for 10 years now and I've even gotten into shouting matches with a Sudanese envoy at the UN. Trust me when I tell you that I know more about East Africa then you'll ever know.:laugh:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:?

Did you expect JWICS links?! Wiki is a perfectly acceptable source for getting my point across, and it just so happens to be fairly accurate on the subject of Al-Shabab.

That point was that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about here -- and it still stands. It's obvious that you're reading one news article at a time in an effort to keep up with what I'm writing back to you. Your inserted "EDITs" makes that quite obvious.

I'm laughing at you right now.

lol, your arguments are bringing back a lot of memories. That is why I add edits. Everythign is fluid. It's like arguing with a child. I've studied this region for 10 years now and I've even gotten into shouting matches with a Sudanese envoy at the UN. Trust me when I tell you that I know more about East Africa then you'll ever know.:laugh:

riiiight... Al-Shabab is just a big group of misunderstood kids... with guns... and suicide vests... a few training camps scattered about... and a deep-rooted desire to implement Sharia Law at gunpoint. They're in no way, shape, or form connected to AQ or the piracy along the coasts. Nope... not at all.

got it.

 

[Drift3r]

Let me also add that while I would not support a ground invasion of any sort I do recognize the need for US ships to patrol that area of the world. There is big impact on the world economy if ships in that region of the world are constantly targeted by these pirates and trade is interrupted. Of course the burden of defending ships there should not solely fall on the United States. Other nations who have vested economic interest should also be encourage deploy their navies to work on along side ours in persecuting any anti-pirating missions.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
lol, now you're going to Wikipedia? My goodness, this is fun. Is this amateur night at the CIA:laugh:?

Did you expect JWICS links?! Wiki is a perfectly acceptable source for getting my point across, and it just so happens to be fairly accurate on the subject of Al-Shabab.

That point was that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about here -- and it still stands. It's obvious that you're reading one news article at a time in an effort to keep up with what I'm writing back to you. Your inserted "EDITs" makes that quite obvious.

I'm laughing at you right now.

lol, your arguments are bringing back a lot of memories. That is why I add edits. Everythign is fluid. It's like arguing with a child. I've studied this region for 10 years now and I've even gotten into shouting matches with a Sudanese envoy at the UN. Trust me when I tell you that I know more about East Africa then you'll ever know.:laugh:

riiiight... Al-Shabab is just a big group of misunderstood kids... with guns... and suicide vests... a few training camps scattered about... and a deep-rooted desire to implement Sharia Law at gunpoint.

got it.

I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

OH? You don't like people putting words into your mouth? Tell me more about this objection...

EDIT: The near jihad are the jihadis that stick their pee-pee into your bumhole. The far jihadis stick their pee-pee into your ear. Goodnight.

 

[ranmaniac]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/...gher-apf-14906409.html

I guess the shipping industry won't be saving a lot of money on their insurance.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
EDIT: The near jihad are the jihadis that stick their pee-pee into your bumhole. The far jihadis stick their pee-pee into your ear. Goodnight.

ummm...

why do I bother?

 

[iGas]

America F__k Yeah!
We aren't in a crisis, and war doesn't cost money.

 

[sandorski]

1 Aircraft Carrier is about all you need to Patrol the area. Could be US, British, French, Russian, or whomever else has one. Take turns handing off the task every 3 months or so.

As for Somalia itself, I dunno. About the only thing that would possibly work at fixing it would be to Identify then Support a Warlord or Warlords to help them consolidate Power. The tricky part is picking those whom won't turn into brutal Dictators and/or won't use that support to attack neighbouring Nations. Another problem with this is the potential for competing Nations to support rival factions. If China or Russia, for eg, simply supported an Enemy of US/Euro/NATO backed Warlords, then the whole thing will simply become a powder keg and the Solution will turn into nothing more than an exercise to Sell Arms.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: sandorski
1 Aircraft Carrier is about all you need to Patrol the area. Could be US, British, French, Russian, or whomever else has one. Take turns handing off the task every 3 months or so.

As for Somalia itself, I dunno. About the only thing that would possibly work at fixing it would be to Identify then Support a Warlord or Warlords to help them consolidate Power. The tricky part is picking those whom won't turn into brutal Dictators and/or won't use that support to attack neighbouring Nations. Another problem with this is the potential for competing Nations to support rival factions. If China or Russia, for eg, simply supported an Enemy of US/Euro/NATO backed Warlords, then the whole thing will simply become a powder keg and the Solution will turn into nothing more than an exercise to Sell Arms.

The unfortunate fact is, it's not easy, and democracy has the odds stacked against it, since those in power have little interest in creating it where it doesn't exist.

The US was a freak accident in terms of the critical mass of military power an ocean away from theBrits, with the help of the French, being enough to barely overcome the military efforts of the British - a situation which rarely exists. The people who would form democracy in Somalia aren't an ocean away and militarily powerful enough to overthrow the warlords, and they don't have the existing political cohesion the US colonies did.

Using history as a guide, there's a progression Europe itself followed of a period where stability and the rule of law are established to the point that democracy forces can form.

Somalia does not much resemble the sort of law-based states that led to democracy, so much as the earlier phases of the dark ages in Europe of competing warlords.

Wasn't a whole lot of democracy going on then.

This is where a bigger investment is needed to create a democratic state, provide outside military protection and establish the rule of law.

When we've done this badly on the cheap, it's been putting some thug in power with a brutal police force to keep power through repression. It 'works', sort of, but is terrible.

I suspect we should look to the better outcomes in Africa, limited as they are, for comparable history of what can work.

But I'd suggest consulting the experts in the US who have a lot of information how to do this - and there might even be a transitional UN-run system set up for them.

 

[StageLeft]

No. Setup ships and lobs bombs to their port until they get the message.

 

[DrPizza]

Geeez, I can't believe more people aren't pro-invasion. I mean, it should be really easy to capture all the pirates on land - they can't run away quickly with their wooden legs, and we can identify them from the patches over one eye. </sarcasm>

Seriously, OP, what good would an invasion do? "Okay, everyone who is a pirate, stand over on that side, and everyone who is just a civilian bystander, stand over over there."

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

DUDE quit it! Dari is right. Besides Him, Magomago, and a few other no one Really knows or understands what is goin on with Somalia. Matter of fact it took a tons of posts just for someone to state the fact that Ethiopia JUST withdrew OUT of Somalia. They were at "War" with Somalia for much of the LAST THREE YEARS and acomplished practically zero.

Linking Somalia with Al-Queda is like linking Iraq with Al-Queda pre 2003. Do you know how many Somalis LIVE in Ethiopia? Do you know that the entire Ogaden region of Ethiopia is inhabited by SOMALIS? Even this region is fighting with Ethiopia over LAND and not religion. These people are NOT "Islamic extremists." Meanwhile the Christian neighbor Eritrea is setting off bombs in Ethiopia.

Even their NEW president is an Educated Somali that practices Sufi Islam. Just recently Osama himself "released a tape" telling Somalis to overthrow the new President. Somalis promptly told Osama to go to hell. You dont know what you are talking about. Really, how closeley do you follow East African politics? Do you read about them everday? So you know any Somalians personally? They would laught at the notion of Somalis being Islamic Fundis - After Pakistan.................LOL

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Geeez, I can't believe more people aren't pro-invasion. I mean, it should be really easy to capture all the pirates on land - they can't run away quickly with their wooden legs, and we can identify them from the patches over one eye. </sarcasm>

Seriously, OP, what good would an invasion do? "Okay, everyone who is a pirate, stand over on that side, and everyone who is just a civilian bystander, stand over over there."

I don't support an invasion as I stated in the OP.

"Okay, everyone who is a pirate, stand over on that side, and everyone who is just a civilian bystander, stand over over there."

I agree with your point. The same could have been applied to Iraq as well, but we are there.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

DUDE quit it! Dari is right. Besides Him, Magomago, and a few other no one Really knows or understands what is goin on with Somalia. Matter of fact it took a tons of posts just for someone to state the fact that Ethiopia JUST withdrew OUT of Somalia. They were at "War" with Somalia for much of the LAST THREE YEARS and accomplished practically zero.

Linking Somalia with Al-Queda is like linking Iraq with Al-Queda pre 2003. Do you know how many Somalis LIVE in Ethiopia? Do you know that the entire Ogaden region of Ethiopia is inhabited by SOMALIS? Even this region is fighting with Ethiopia over LAND and not religion. These people are NOT "Islamic extremists." Meanwhile the Christian neighbor Eritrea is setting off bombs in Ethiopia.

Even their NEW president is an Educated Somali that practices Sufi Islam. Just recently Osama himself "released a tape" telling Somalis to overthrow the new President. Somalis promptly told Osama to go to hell. You dont know what you are talking about. Really, how closeley do you follow East African politics? Do you read about them everday? So you know any Somalians personally? They would laught at the notion of Somalis being Islamic Fundis - After Pakistan.................LOL

wow... sadly, you, and Dari as well, are completely uninformed on this issue.

And yes, I read about them every day.

To deny the presence of a vast number of Islamists in Somalia, especially after the rise and fall of the ICU, and the subsequent rise of Al-Shabaab, is just plain ignorant.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

DUDE quit it! Dari is right. Besides Him, Magomago, and a few other no one Really knows or understands what is goin on with Somalia. Matter of fact it took a tons of posts just for someone to state the fact that Ethiopia JUST withdrew OUT of Somalia. They were at "War" with Somalia for much of the LAST THREE YEARS and accomplished practically zero.

Linking Somalia with Al-Queda is like linking Iraq with Al-Queda pre 2003. Do you know how many Somalis LIVE in Ethiopia? Do you know that the entire Ogaden region of Ethiopia is inhabited by SOMALIS? Even this region is fighting with Ethiopia over LAND and not religion. These people are NOT "Islamic extremists." Meanwhile the Christian neighbor Eritrea is setting off bombs in Ethiopia.

Even their NEW president is an Educated Somali that practices Sufi Islam. Just recently Osama himself "released a tape" telling Somalis to overthrow the new President. Somalis promptly told Osama to go to hell. You dont know what you are talking about. Really, how closeley do you follow East African politics? Do you read about them everday? So you know any Somalians personally? They would laught at the notion of Somalis being Islamic Fundis - After Pakistan.................LOL

wow... sadly, you, and Dari as well, are completely uninformed on this issue.

And yes, I read about them every day.

To deny the presence of a vast number of Islamists in Somalia, especially after the rise and fall of the ICU, and the subsequent rise of Al-Shabaab, is just plain ignorant.

A modern day Joseph McCarthy. Islamists here, Islamists there. Be careful, there might be some under your bed or in the White House:shocked: