Invading Somalia

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
A modern day Joseph McCarthy. Islamists here, Islamists there. Be careful, there might be some under your bed or in the White House:shocked:

Are you honestly denying the existence of a large number of Islamists, including many foreign terrorists, in Somalia? really?!

wow.

Just out of curiosity, do you a finger shoved into each of your ears right now?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Always will be? Is that becasue black people are too stupid and primitive to develop their countries into successful entities? Or is it becasue you and your kind have a plan to keep it a shithole as long as possible in order to ensure white supremacy?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: OCguy
Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Always will be? Is that becasue black people are too stupid and primitive to develop their countries into successful entities? Or is it becasue you and your kind have a plan to keep it a shithole as long as possible in order to ensure white supremacy?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
A modern day Joseph McCarthy. Islamists here, Islamists there. Be careful, there might be some under your bed or in the White House:shocked:

Are you honestly denying the existence of a large number of Islamists, including many foreign terrorists, in Somalia? really?!

wow.

Just out of curiosity, do you a finger shoved into each of your ears right now?

Your branding of people may be good for (your) job security but it's ultimately self-defeating because you risk fighting everyone that calls themselves an Islamist. It's a very simplistic view of the world that (thankfully) President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to dispel. Don't fall into the trap of seeing Islam as your enemy when your real enemy is an ideology.

Instead of labelling these people, you really need to find out what they're fighting for. I used to think you knew what you were talking about. But now I see you're just a boy with expensive toys.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: palehorse
Someone needs to arm the merchant ships. If that doesnt work, we will need to come up with some massive version of the Coast Guard for NATO... or, more than likely, we simply continue to hit them when we can, and merchants will have to decide for themselves how to mitigate the threats and costs.

The real problems in Somalia are not the pirates. Piracy is merely a symptom of the greater problem that has taken root there: fanatical Islamic terrorism. If you think the seas are fvcked up, you should see downtown Mogadishu and beyond. Somalia may be second only to Pakistan, in terms of it being a hotbed for terrorists.

That place is mad fvcked up.

I can't believe you said that. Piracy is a symptom of the problem of Islamic Terrorism? LOLOLOL

Piracy is a problem due to the fact that there is no Somali government to enforce any type of rules, and that piracy is a much more profitable venture than anything else. When you have fisherman who have the choice of fishing empty seas and becoming a pirate and daring to chance upon a LOT of cash....many go that route.

Mogadishu is in its current condition due to Islamic Extremism? Dear Palehorse...you are incredibly mis informed. Mogadishu is in its situation because you have warlords fighting over the right to oppress and extract $$$ from the people. That is really the situation in most of Somalia. It is 'secular warlords' looking to expand their power. That is not to say that 'secularism' is bad, but WARLORDS , in the case of Somalia, have not proven very fruitful.

The funny part is when Somalia FINALLY started to seem to come under SOME kind of stable government, it had to be an Islamic one. It wasn't one that I would want to live under...but I live in the USA thank God. I can easily see myself play a different tune if I spent 10+ years dodging bullets in Mogadishu. I may bitch about some stuff, but its sure better to live with stability around me than to have none. Too bad Ethiopia had to interfere (and the funny part is we were cheering the Ethiopians on if you look at some thread history. They are much more interested in keeping land contested with Somalia more than anything else)

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Dari
Your branding of people may be good for (your) job security but it's ultimately self-defeating because you risk fighting everyone that calls themselves an Islamist. It's a very simplistic view of the world that (thankfully) President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to dispel. Don't fall into the trap of seeing Islam as your enemy when your real enemy is an ideology.

Instead of labelling these people, you really need to find out what they're fighting for. I used to think you knew what you were talking about. But now I see you're just a boy with expensive toys.

WTF are you talking about?! I'm the last guy on this board you need to worry about when it comes to lumping all Muslims together. Don't ever f'n paint me with that ignorant xenophobic brush again.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to terrorism in Somalia, but now you've moved on to libel. I'm through debating with you.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
Your branding of people may be good for (your) job security but it's ultimately self-defeating because you risk fighting everyone that calls themselves an Islamist. It's a very simplistic view of the world that (thankfully) President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to dispel. Don't fall into the trap of seeing Islam as your enemy when your real enemy is an ideology.

Instead of labelling these people, you really need to find out what they're fighting for. I used to think you knew what you were talking about. But now I see you're just a boy with expensive toys.

WTF are you talking about?! I'm the last guy on this board you need to worry about when it comes to lumping all Muslims together. Don't ever f'n paint me with that ignorant xenophobic brush again.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to terrorism in Somalia, but now you've moved on to libel. I'm through debating with you.

You're an idiot, plain and simple. I'm ashamed you work for the government. Then again, that's probably the only job you could get.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

DUDE quit it! Dari is right. Besides Him, Magomago, and a few other no one Really knows or understands what is goin on with Somalia. Matter of fact it took a tons of posts just for someone to state the fact that Ethiopia JUST withdrew OUT of Somalia. They were at "War" with Somalia for much of the LAST THREE YEARS and acomplished practically zero.

Linking Somalia with Al-Queda is like linking Iraq with Al-Queda pre 2003. Do you know how many Somalis LIVE in Ethiopia? Do you know that the entire Ogaden region of Ethiopia is inhabited by SOMALIS? Even this region is fighting with Ethiopia over LAND and not religion. These people are NOT "Islamic extremists." Meanwhile the Christian neighbor Eritrea is setting off bombs in Ethiopia.

Even their NEW president is an Educated Somali that practices Sufi Islam. Just recently Osama himself "released a tape" telling Somalis to overthrow the new President. Somalis promptly told Osama to go to hell. You dont know what you are talking about. Really, how closeley do you follow East African politics? Do you read about them everday? So you know any Somalians personally? They would laught at the notion of Somalis being Islamic Fundis - After Pakistan.................LOL

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Munky]

Somalia isn't our problem, the pirates are. I'm tired of US having to play world police. Just send forces to patrol the waters, and let nature take its course in Somalia.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: magomago
I can't believe you said that. Piracy is a symptom of the problem of Islamic Terrorism? LOLOLOL

Piracy is a problem due to the fact that there is no Somali government to enforce any type of rules, and that piracy is a much more profitable venture than anything else. When you have fisherman who have the choice of fishing empty seas and becoming a pirate and daring to chance upon a LOT of cash....many go that route.

The pirates in and around Somalia are tied very closely to many of the most violent terrorist factions in Somalia and elsewhere. Just as it is with the opium production in Afghanistan, terrorists are drawn to any opportunity to make/extort large sums of money to fund their activities. Hell, various terrorist groups have been in bed with pirates all over the world for years.

But, you knew that already and that's what you meant to say, right?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: OCguy
Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Always will be? Is that becasue black people are too stupid and primitive to develop their countries into successful entities? Or is it becasue you and your kind have a plan to keep it a shithole as long as possible in order to ensure white supremacy?

That may be the dumbest use of the racecard I have seen here yet. Congratulations!


(Especially coming from someone from the Europe. You guys fucked Africa)

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Your lack of thinking is wonderful.

Genx87 says a few posts down, "only Somalians can fix Somalia."

We need to create the environment for that to happen. That will probably mean bringing the neighboring countries together to put pressure on the Somalia factions and maybe an African peace keeping force so some government can begin to form.

There are millions of Somalis with nothing to lose, and the US would literally have to send the entire Navy to that part of the world to kill all the pirates.

The US needs to kill the pirates that come out to attack ships, but also change the country to get to the root cause of the problem. A US invasion is not the answer, but an African invasion may be.

Why do we need to do anything? Why is it the United States job to create a stable environement in Somalia? If African nations want to take that up I applaud their initiative.

True, they don't have any natural resources like oil we can pillage. It fails the blood for oil test.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: OCguy
Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Always will be? Is that becasue black people are too stupid and primitive to develop their countries into successful entities? Or is it becasue you and your kind have a plan to keep it a shithole as long as possible in order to ensure white supremacy?

That may be the dumbest use of the racecard I have seen here yet. Congratulations!

I agree the statement was dumb.

(Especially coming from someone from the Europe. You guys fucked Africa)

I doubt he was personally responsible for what you are referring to in Europe. He might as well come back and say you are responsible for all the intervention the U.S. has had throughout all the wars. I know you were saying it in a general sense, but that broad brush goes both ways.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: magomago
I can't believe you said that. Piracy is a symptom of the problem of Islamic Terrorism? LOLOLOL

Piracy is a problem due to the fact that there is no Somali government to enforce any type of rules, and that piracy is a much more profitable venture than anything else. When you have fisherman who have the choice of fishing empty seas and becoming a pirate and daring to chance upon a LOT of cash....many go that route.

The pirates in and around Somalia are tied very closely to many of the most violent terrorist factions in Somalia and elsewhere. Just as it is with the opium production in Afghanistan, terrorists are drawn to any opportunity to make/extort large sums of money to fund their activities. Hell, various terrorist groups have been in bed with pirates all over the world for years.

But, you knew that already and that's what you meant to say, right?

Since you were the one to post a Wiki Article first, I'll do the same for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate

Due to the clan-based organization of Somalia and the lack of a central government, combined with Somalia's location at the Horn of Africa, conditions were ripe for the growth of piracy in the early 1990s. Since the collapse of the state, boats illegally fishing in Somali waters were a common sight. Pirates at first were interested in securing the waters before businessmen and militias became involved. Acts of piracy temporarily subsided following the rise of the Islamic Courts Union in 2006. However, pirate activity began to increase after Ethiopia invaded Somalia in December 2006.

Yes, Piracy grew out of Islamic Terrorists! :roll:

Of course, I can see that terrorism, warlords, 'businessmen', the lack of any stable govt, violation of Somali waters, etc. ALL play into the current problem that exists,

but again palehorse your comment was:

Piracy is merely a symptom of the greater problem that has taken root there: fanatical Islamic terrorism

Which I why I was amazed you chose to say that.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: OCguy
Africa always has been and always will be a third-world shithole.

Always will be? Is that becasue black people are too stupid and primitive to develop their countries into successful entities? Or is it becasue you and your kind have a plan to keep it a shithole as long as possible in order to ensure white supremacy?

That may be the dumbest use of the racecard I have seen here yet. Congratulations!


(Especially coming from someone from the Europe. You guys fucked Africa)

Indeed we did, and I do mean we, as in both our ancestors. Assuming you're white American anyway. In fact modern Brits are the decendents of the ones who stayed behind; you're decended from the actual colonial settlers. That doesn't make Somalia your fault but it sure as shit isn't my fault either.

I was half joking about the white supremacy, but only half... what non-racist explaination is there for claiming Africa always will be a shithole? Eather you thnk the Africans are incapable of fixing things, or westerners are incapable of letting them...

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

I doubt he was personally responsible for what you are referring to in Europe. He might as well come back and say you are responsible for all the intervention the U.S. has had throughout all the wars. I know you were saying it in a general sense, but that broad brush goes both ways.

I was trying to be a little ironic.


That would be like me telling a European that he is racist if he said that the Native Americans will never advance either.

Africa was Europe's little pet-project.

 

[racolvin]

Invasion? No, definitely not.

Assassination squads? most definitely

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: magomago
Of course, I can see that terrorism, warlords, 'businessmen', the lack of any stable govt, violation of Somali waters, etc. ALL play into the current problem that exists,

but again palehorse your comment was:

Piracy is merely a symptom of the greater problem that has taken root there: fanatical Islamic terrorism

Which I why I was amazed you chose to say that.

fair enough. I didn't mean to have the chicken and egg debate on the issue, so perhaps I worded it wrong.

The fact of the matter is that, regardless of which came first, the two problems are tied together very closely now. As terrorism is itself a crime, it's very difficult to separate the two issues in the country of Somalia, or elsewhere. It would therefore be very dangerous to assume that you could battle one without taking on the other as well.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
I never said any of that. These are fighters...for their clans...not against the Great Satan. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of the world in from an American-centric pov. You'll end up misunderstanding other peoples and cultures. Not everybody that prays to mecca is anti-American.

I never said that they were, or that Al-Shabab had any interest in fighting "the Great Satan."

Are you just making shit up at this point? Imagining things? I think you need to start at the top and read each of my posts again... and I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Let's start with this: Do you know the difference between the near and the far Jihad?

DUDE quit it! Dari is right. Besides Him, Magomago, and a few other no one Really knows or understands what is goin on with Somalia. Matter of fact it took a tons of posts just for someone to state the fact that Ethiopia JUST withdrew OUT of Somalia. They were at "War" with Somalia for much of the LAST THREE YEARS and acomplished practically zero.

Linking Somalia with Al-Queda is like linking Iraq with Al-Queda pre 2003. Do you know how many Somalis LIVE in Ethiopia? Do you know that the entire Ogaden region of Ethiopia is inhabited by SOMALIS? Even this region is fighting with Ethiopia over LAND and not religion. These people are NOT "Islamic extremists." Meanwhile the Christian neighbor Eritrea is setting off bombs in Ethiopia.

Even their NEW president is an Educated Somali that practices Sufi Islam. Just recently Osama himself "released a tape" telling Somalis to overthrow the new President. Somalis promptly told Osama to go to hell. You dont know what you are talking about. Really, how closeley do you follow East African politics? Do you read about them everday? So you know any Somalians personally? They would laught at the notion of Somalis being Islamic Fundis - After Pakistan.................LOL

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[palehorse]

yep... no rampant Islamic terrorism in Somalia... nothing to see here... Jpeyton and Co. have spoken.

:roll:

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: palehorse
yep... no rampant Islamic terrorism in Somalia... nothing to see here... Jpeyton and Co. have spoken.

:roll:

:laugh:

I can seriously see some of these guys suiting up for the global Jihad to take on the infidel westerners.

 

[Screech]

Invasion? terrible idea.....

Arming merchants with AK-47s? Sounds like it'd be a pretty good deterrent temporarily. You'd have to throw in a good deal of camera/motion system sensors and the like to make it really effective I suppose but after initial cost I don't see why it wouldn't work for some period of time.

 

[StageLeft]

What about each of these ships has some obscenely fast watercraft on it that can be fairly quickly lowered to the water and take the entire crew. If pirates come, since there's warning before they get there, launch the thing and run away. Then have the navy send in fighters and just destroy the ships outright. Happen once or twice and then pirates get the message, problem solved!

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
Your branding of people may be good for (your) job security but it's ultimately self-defeating because you risk fighting everyone that calls themselves an Islamist. It's a very simplistic view of the world that (thankfully) President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to dispel. Don't fall into the trap of seeing Islam as your enemy when your real enemy is an ideology.

Instead of labelling these people, you really need to find out what they're fighting for. I used to think you knew what you were talking about. But now I see you're just a boy with expensive toys.

WTF are you talking about?! I'm the last guy on this board you need to worry about when it comes to lumping all Muslims together. Don't ever f'n paint me with that ignorant xenophobic brush again.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to terrorism in Somalia, but now you've moved on to libel. I'm through debating with you.

Your posts about "radical Islamists" concerning Somalia is a broad brush in itself. Your posts on Afghanistan have some merit although, but as far as Somalia, it sounds like some regurgitated, pigheaded nonsense from the "Muslims are out to get us" zombies on the breitbart comments section.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari
Your branding of people may be good for (your) job security but it's ultimately self-defeating because you risk fighting everyone that calls themselves an Islamist. It's a very simplistic view of the world that (thankfully) President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to dispel. Don't fall into the trap of seeing Islam as your enemy when your real enemy is an ideology.

Instead of labelling these people, you really need to find out what they're fighting for. I used to think you knew what you were talking about. But now I see you're just a boy with expensive toys.

WTF are you talking about?! I'm the last guy on this board you need to worry about when it comes to lumping all Muslims together. Don't ever f'n paint me with that ignorant xenophobic brush again.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to terrorism in Somalia, but now you've moved on to libel. I'm through debating with you.

Your posts about "radical Islamists" concerning Somalia is a broad brush in itself. Your posts on Afghanistan have some merit although, but as far as Somalia, it sounds like some regurgitated, pigheaded nonsense from the "Muslims are out to get us" zombies on the breitbart comments section.

The situation in Somalia, in terms of a fanatical Islamic presence and influence, is closer to that of Afghanistan than you may know.

In fact, Somalia is the central core of East African terrorism with ever increasing close ties to other sunni Islamic groups around the world, such as AQ. One only needs to understand the history of the conflicts there to see that -- ie. the ICU, Al-Shabaab, etc.

The Warlords, pirates, and terrorists are all playing in the same sandbox. To deny that is simply ignorant; but, nowhere did I say that everyone in Somalia is a terrorist. That would be just as ignorant...