Invading Somalia

[Dari]

Originally posted by: cwjerome



I haven't changed my opinion because I haven't given my opinion. I have given historical facts and stated the public rationale for US "attention" to the Somali AO.

The only opinion I have given was my opinion of you... an emotional, practically unintelligible child. And that hasn't changed.

Your "facts" sound like something I've see on a History or Discovery Channel documentary--drama. You've even admitted that you know next to nothing about what you're talking about. Hell, you're probably just regurgitating what you've heard.

As for your opinion, I couldn't give two squirts of piss what you think of me because I see you as nothing more than a waste of my time.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Genx87
We cant fix Somalia. Only Somalians can fix it.

True.

But a few tomahawks couldn't hurt that much. Hell even Clinton sent some of those into a tent to deflect bad press from the monica dress.

If the polls show it favorable and BHO has a bad day I'd say there will be some tomahawks.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: cwjerome



I haven't changed my opinion because I haven't given my opinion. I have given historical facts and stated the public rationale for US "attention" to the Somali AO.

The only opinion I have given was my opinion of you... an emotional, practically unintelligible child. And that hasn't changed.

Your "facts" sound like something I've see on a History or Discovery Channel documentary--drama. You've even admitted that you know next to nothing about what you're talking about. Hell, you're probably just regurgitating what you've heard.

As for your opinion, I couldn't give two squirts of piss what you think of me because I see you as nothing more than a waste of my time.

It's all good, I readily admit when I don't know "a lot." Tragically, my not knowing a lot still owns you in a discussion

Now that we've established that you're a hyperventilating retard, I'll go ahead and give my opinion on the matter.

Since the Somali "threat" is part and parcel of deficiencies in a functioning government, the US should simply closely monitor and manipulate the battlespace within reason. When the time is right (I have no idea when that might be, but probably not for a long while) we should be willing to embark on a long-term strategy of constructive engagement within a larger coalition.

The key is to develop social programs and to build up infrastructure so that Somalis have an alternative to the services now provided by some Islamic fundamentalist organizations. The water system must be rebuilt, health care facilities need to be bolstered, and cargo ports and airports need improvement. The US should choose a broad-based counter-terrorism strategy in Somalia along with reconstruction of civil institutions rather than a short-term military option. The underlying reasons for chaos that enables hiding places and extremism will have to be dealt with for any plan succeed.

The key points for me is it should be within the larger framework of a coalition and it should not be anytime soon. Whenever you have an area that's not really a nation but is a tribal region with arbitrary "borders" drawn by departing European colonial authorities, you've got your work cut out for you.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: cwjerome



I haven't changed my opinion because I haven't given my opinion. I have given historical facts and stated the public rationale for US "attention" to the Somali AO.

The only opinion I have given was my opinion of you... an emotional, practically unintelligible child. And that hasn't changed.

Your "facts" sound like something I've see on a History or Discovery Channel documentary--drama. You've even admitted that you know next to nothing about what you're talking about. Hell, you're probably just regurgitating what you've heard.

As for your opinion, I couldn't give two squirts of piss what you think of me because I see you as nothing more than a waste of my time.

It's all good, I readily admit when I don't know "a lot." Tragically, my not knowing a lot still owns you in a discussion

Now that we've established that you're a hyperventilating retard, I'll go ahead and give my opinion on the matter.

Since the Somali "threat" is part and parcel of deficiencies in a functioning government, the US should simply closely monitor and manipulate the battlespace within reason. When the time is right (I have no idea when that might be, but probably not for a long while) we should be willing to embark on a long-term strategy of constructive engagement within a larger coalition.

The key is to develop social programs and to build up infrastructure so that Somalis have an alternative to the services now provided by some Islamic fundamentalist organizations. The water system must be rebuilt, health care facilities need to be bolstered, and cargo ports and airports need improvement. The US should choose a broad-based counter-terrorism strategy in Somalia along with reconstruction of civil institutions rather than a short-term military option. The underlying reasons for chaos that enables hiding places and extremism will have to be dealt with for any plan succeed.

The key points for me is it should be within the larger framework of a coalition and it should not be anytime soon. Whenever you have an area that's not really a nation but is a tribal region with arbitrary "borders" drawn by departing European colonial authorities, you've got your work cut out for you.

I can see you're a dreamer. You wished you added much to this topic but failed in every way possible. You even owned yourself by admitting your ignorance. Somalia is no central front of any GWOT. In the 18 years that country has been in chaos I haven't heard of any attacks originating from Somalia carried out in other countries. If anything, it is a low priority considering the United States has a major military base closeby in Djbouti and they can easily monitor the Al Qaeda presence in Yemen, the source of most of the terrorists in Somalia. To think that Somalia is a central front is laughable and shows how little hicks like you know about that region. The terrorism you speak of will prove non-existent once all the parties are at the same table.

Even your opinion is something I and others have said. Hell, I pointed out in another thread that the African Union wanted a more involved peace operation in Somalia and they should be given the necessary intelligence, political will, and money. Troops can be had easily if those three are provided under the aegis of the UN. Like much of Africa, the problem is governance. Once that is in place, everything else can fall in place. Also, IMHO, aid will just make things worse if it isn't transparent or comes in the form of hardware. I say so because it may be cheaper to buy the same things locally (region-wise).

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Helping Somalia get out of the poverty that drives piracy: would you agree to that?

Funny how the only option on the table for problems is invading.

you can't get somalia out of poverty without developing it, you can't develop it without government and civil institutions, and you can't have civil institutions and government without invading

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: alpineranger
One thing I think would be interesting is to set ambushes - put large numbers of heavily armed soldiers on "honeypot" ships and blast the pirates to kingdom come when they take the bait. I haven't heard anyone suggest this idea yet. It's not a solution, but it would give pirates something to think about and would possibly decrease the number of attacks.

I really like that idea... brilliant! :thumbsup:

Yeah, this is a great idea. All it'll do is lure terrorists into Somalia. Hell, I'm sure after hearing about how the Navy SEALs rescued the Captain today the terrorists are salivating at all the missed opportunities so far.

I tried to stay out of this thread because of its utter stupidity but the ideas here are too crazy to ignore.

LOL!! If you honestly believe that 1) Somalia needs our help or presence to lure in terrorists, or 2) that terrorists would line up to fight armed foes at sea, like our SEALS, then you're even dumber than I thought possible.

Seriously, you're an idiot.

You're the fucking idiot. A typical fucking gnat. You must've forgotten what they did to the USS Cole. For them, the environment is too perfect. Lots of civilians to kill and lots of things to destroy.

lol.. you're a riot.

1. Your last two posts are enough to demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing about Somalia or Islamic terrorism.

2. Somalia is already second only to Pakistan in terms of the number of terrorists present in the country.

3. Terrorists are already working closely with the pirates in Somalia and elsewhere.

Go back to school son.

not to mention that the cole was sitting at port

 

[zinfamous]

Isn't it ironic, that a thread about Africa quickly tumbled into a clusterfuck of mindless and bitter aggression?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Since the Somali "threat" is part and parcel of deficiencies in a functioning government, the US should simply closely monitor and manipulate the battlespace within reason. When the time is right (I have no idea when that might be, but probably not for a long while) we should be willing to embark on a long-term strategy of constructive engagement within a larger coalition.

The key is to develop social programs and to build up infrastructure so that Somalis have an alternative to the services now provided by some Islamic fundamentalist organizations. The water system must be rebuilt, health care facilities need to be bolstered, and cargo ports and airports need improvement. The US should choose a broad-based counter-terrorism strategy in Somalia along with reconstruction of civil institutions rather than a short-term military option. The underlying reasons for chaos that enables hiding places and extremism will have to be dealt with for any plan succeed.

The key points for me is it should be within the larger framework of a coalition and it should not be anytime soon. Whenever you have an area that's not really a nation but is a tribal region with arbitrary "borders" drawn by departing European colonial authorities, you've got your work cut out for you.

:thumbsup:

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: beyoku
Bwaha ha ha.
I was there in 2006 2007 and 2008.
I speak with inlaws like everyweek. I Also own land in the horn of Africa and been paying VERY close attention to what is going on thinking maybe i can retire there in a little while. Whatever indications of some MAJOR terrorist activity in the horn of Africa must have been gotten from some classified source that only you few know about.

Seriously speaking there are SO MANY Somalis in Ethiopia it isnt a joke. Somalians could bomb Ethiopians everyday in the city if they wanted to. Even the country is like 50% Muslim! LOL and Ethiopia is the 3 holiest city in Islam. The hole idea is stupid. Stop using the word "Terrorist" If Somalia had MAJOR terrorist Activity there would be agitating "Christian" Ethiopia daily.

#1 I think you're drunk.

And for some reason you seem to think I'm saying thousands of international terrorists flow from Somalia daily. Calm down.

United States has long been engaged in a shadowy struggle with the forces of militant Islam in the ruined, chaotic state of Somalia. The environment of lawlessness and clan warfare is ideal for hiding and creating a base of operations. See al Ittihad.

Ethiopia has been agitated my friend. Ethiopia has been and continues to operate its own clandestine operations in the country. Their success in subduing terrorist activity by eliminating hard targets such as bases and compounds is well noted and the removal of suspected terrorists in snatch and grab operations is not exactly a secret.

You still dont know whats going on. Which part of Somalia is the Problem? Is it Somaliland? Is it Puntland, or are you speaking of Mogadishu? Where is Ethiopia doing "Clandestine operations"? If they are "Clandestine" then how do you know about them? Are you Ethiopian or do you know ANY Ethiopians or Somalis? Like I said Osama just released a tape telling Somalis to overthrow their moderate govt and they told him to 'get the hell out of here and mind his business.'

Ethiopia basically engaged Somalia to get MONEY from the US and to become a pseudo member in the war on Terror. They were there for 3 years and accomplished ZERO - They have more of a problem with Eritrea as they have used, and do use Somalia and Ogaden to fight Ethiopia via proxy. It was really about money. But FIRST and foremost it is about WATER. Ethiopia is landlocked after the War with Eritrea and would like to get their port back so they dont have to go through Somalia and Djibuoti to ship goods.

If the interim government of Somalia says you can use the ports but some of the Warlords tryign to control Somali say you cannot - This causes a problem, and they had to be "Taken out" Ethiopia was waiting for a reason to strike and they got the ho ahead with the word of the US. Many of the "Terrorist" that are caught by Ethiopian are NOT Somali, they are Eritrean. Al-Shabaab has "declared Jihad" on Ethiopia probably a thousand times. They had asked MANY of the Somalis that live in the City in Ethiopia to take jihad - It Never happens. Look at WHO Somalis voted for. LOL
You definitley have a bigger issue in YEMEN and probably even Sudan before you go in Somalia speaking of Terrorists.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Like I said Osama just released a tape telling Somalis to overthrow their moderate govt and they told him to 'get the hell out of here and mind his business.'

Who is "they"?

You definitely have a bigger issue in YEMEN and probably even Sudan before you go in Somalia speaking of Terrorists.

Yemen and Sudan are on the list; but, so is Somalia.

It's a long list.

 

[trigun500]

Someone lock this tread; it made its point.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Somalia probably doesnt have any kind of viable commercial fishing fleet, so it stands to reason that any vessel capable of traveling more than 50 miles from shore is a suspect "mothership". Intercept these ships, search them, and if weapons or anything indicative of pirate activity are found, sink the boat and return the crew to land. They'll run out of boats eventually.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Helping Somalia get out of the poverty that drives piracy: would you agree to that?

Funny how the only option on the table for problems is invading.

you do remember the previous UN occupation of somalia. where the head thugs commendeered all aid for themselves while the citizens starved as UN troops observed.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: piasabird
You dont have to invade Somalia. It might make more sense to move some military ships into the area and just set up a blockade. No ships in and no ships out.

Except the coastline of Somalia is huge and you wouldn't be able to blockade it.

Also, hunting down and finding the pirates will be close to impossible. They don't wear pirate hats and say 'ar'.

Pass a UN resolution that they must wear pirate hats and say "AR"

 

[Arkaign]

I wouldn't advise a full ground invasion, that sounds ridiculous. I do think that Somalia's coast would make a good location for a full-scale US Navy port though, big enough to host and supply a CVBG. Good luck getting support for something that ambitious though.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: beyoku
Like I said Osama just released a tape telling Somalis to overthrow their moderate govt and they told him to 'get the hell out of here and mind his business.'

Who is "they"?

You definitely have a bigger issue in YEMEN and probably even Sudan before you go in Somalia speaking of Terrorists.

Yemen and Sudan are on the list; but, so is Somalia.

It's a long list.

They = Somalis. I have already spoken to Somalis in American about the issue.
I have spoken with other Ethiopians who discuss this with Somalis in their country and the consensus is the same pretty much across the board - "Osama go to hell."

Even the Somali Insurgent Leaders rejected Osamas call to arms.

Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys (one of the so called "Bad Guys") - 'Only Somalis should decide on their future.'

Somalia knows [its] future and who can involve, but it is not something for Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda either," he reportedly told Arabic TV

Information Minister Farahan Ali Mohamoud said Bin Laden should concentrate on his own survival.

We know that bin Laden has his own problems in the mountainous area of Tora Bora where he is hiding, so he has no place making such statements at a time when Somalia is keen to emerge from 21 years violence

etc etc. Maybe you should SPEAK with a Somali.
Where are you getting YOUR information from?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: beyoku
Like I said Osama just released a tape telling Somalis to overthrow their moderate govt and they told him to 'get the hell out of here and mind his business.'

Who is "they"?

You definitely have a bigger issue in YEMEN and probably even Sudan before you go in Somalia speaking of Terrorists.

Yemen and Sudan are on the list; but, so is Somalia.

It's a long list.

They = Somalis. I have already spoken to Somalis in American about the issue.
I have spoken with other Ethiopians who discuss this with Somalis in their country and the consensus is the same pretty much across the board - "Osama go to hell."

well then, if your friends say so, then who am I to argue?

Where are you getting YOUR information from?

lol.. well then, that IS the question now, isn't it?

Here, have some more open source love...

Shabaab spokesman and military commander Sheikh Mukhtar Robow admitted that many Shabaab leader have trained with and take instruction from al Qaeda. "Most of our leaders were trained in Al Qaeda camps," Robow told The Los Angeles Times last August. "We get our tactics and guidelines from them," he continued. "Many have spent time with Osama bin Laden."

Robow admitted Shabaab formally seeks to merge with al Qaeda. "We are negotiating how we can unite into one," Robow said, told The Los Angeles Times. "We will take our orders from Sheik Osama bin Laden because we are his students. Al Qaeda is the mother of the holy war in Somalia."

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: trigun500
Someone lock this tread; it made its point.

no it didn't. Africa is still in trouble and ATP&N needs to fix it.

 

[Jadow]

I think we can just drop some bombs on em and call it a day

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: beyoku
Like I said Osama just released a tape telling Somalis to overthrow their moderate govt and they told him to 'get the hell out of here and mind his business.'

Who is "they"?

You definitely have a bigger issue in YEMEN and probably even Sudan before you go in Somalia speaking of Terrorists.

Yemen and Sudan are on the list; but, so is Somalia.

It's a long list.

They = Somalis. I have already spoken to Somalis in American about the issue.
I have spoken with other Ethiopians who discuss this with Somalis in their country and the consensus is the same pretty much across the board - "Osama go to hell."

well then, if your friends say so, then who am I to argue?

Where are you getting YOUR information from?

lol.. well then, that IS the question now, isn't it?

Here, have some more open source love...

Shabaab spokesman and military commander Sheikh Mukhtar Robow admitted that many Shabaab leader have trained with and take instruction from al Qaeda. "Most of our leaders were trained in Al Qaeda camps," Robow told The Los Angeles Times last August. "We get our tactics and guidelines from them," he continued. "Many have spent time with Osama bin Laden."

Robow admitted Shabaab formally seeks to merge with al Qaeda. "We are negotiating how we can unite into one," Robow said, told The Los Angeles Times. "We will take our orders from Sheik Osama bin Laden because we are his students. Al Qaeda is the mother of the holy war in Somalia."

*Note this is the same guy that said the Somali pirates were "Created by Americans."
The main problem with that is THERE IS NO HOLY WAR IN SOMALIA!. In order for this to be true there has to be a HOLY WAR. And Somalia is not fighting with Ethiopia over Religion.
Also Somalia is Primarily 1 Ethnic group: Somali, and one religon : Muslim.

Al-Shabaab can say whatever it wants but their numbers are dying out and their recruitment is dropping. People are tired of fighting in Somalia and now that Ethiopia is gone, most somalis would rather NOT fight their own people for religious reasons because everyone is Muslim. This is where Al-Shabaab is loosing ground. Holy war against WHO? It is still Clan madness that is going on. Many of these guys "Trained with al Qaeda" almost 2o YEARS ago. There are probably bigger fish to fry in Egypt.

 

[SammyJr]

No. I do not support invading Somalia.

 

[Udgnim]

Somalia is not worth invading

 

[AreaCode707]

Invading Somalia: Would you support it?

Fuck no. Getting ourselves into another long and pricey mess involving responsibility for rebuilding a country, economy, culture and government is no way to fix a problem this minor.

 

[BD2003]

No. It would be amazingly stupid. The only reason high seas piracy seems like such a huge problem is because its such an odd problem that it gets so much attention. Like.....there's piracy in 2009....really?

The total cost to business the pirates have caused is only in the low tens of millions. The reason they dont even bother hiring mercenaries to defend the ships is because that would cost far more than to just pay the occasional ransom.

Besides, these pirates arent a foreign army, or terrorists. Theyre common thugs. Armed robbers sticking up convenience stores do more overall damage to human life and and business than these pirates do...and until we're willing to post soldiers outside of 7-11, any talk of invading somalia over a bunch of thugs is absurd.