iPad2 thread

[Aikouka]

I'm calling a quad Cortex A9 with PowerVR 543MP4 on the iPad 3. Apple is going to go head to head with the NGP. Unreal Engine 3, CryEngine 3, and ID Tech5 are not being ported to iOS for shits and giggles.

If the iPad 3 will be out in a year, why would they continue to use the A9 and the same GPU with 2x the cores? The mobile sector is evolving way too fast to allow that.

 

[DivideBYZero]

There's no reason that you can't think of the NGP as a 5" tablet with additional controls for alternative input methods. The thing also has 3G, so it's possible that some model may also work as a phone considering that there's a PSP phone already. It'll probably run some modified version of Android as well.

5" = Big Phone, not Tablet. And nobody wants to be rocking a game console as a phone. We've been there before, and it's not pretty:

 

[zerocool84]

The battery life on these "iDevices" is really what is starting to win me over to that camp. I mean holy shit. Full video @ 50% brightness + more and ~13h battery life? I have not researched other tablets at all but have a feeling the competition wouldn't even make it through two movies before needing a charge. If I'm wrong I'm probably not wrong by much...

Well the Xoom has great battery life but there's other reasons not to recommend it though.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Apple has gotten battery life down. The iPhones, Macbooks, and iPads all get excellent battery life. Its all about hardware and software optimizations.

If you check out the ifixit tear down the iPad2 is all battery.

Now imagine keeping the thickness at a not so impressive figure.

I don't think anyone would've cried if the iPhone 4 was 10mm. Or if the iPad2 was 10mm. But imagine what MORE they could've done with the battery. That would be INSANE. Easily 20-30% bump in battery. Heh. Just like the iPod Touch. AS it goes below 8mm and with its curved back, ergonomics comes into play. I feel as if I NEED my case on my iPod touch to make it grabbable. But the battery life is impressive and if they kept it a more square shape like the iPhone 4 or just flat at 8mm or something, I think we could see a 15-20% bump in battery easily.

 

[gus6464]

If the iPad 3 will be out in a year, why would they continue to use the A9 and the same GPU with 2x the cores? The mobile sector is evolving way too fast to allow that.

That PowerVR chip will not be ready until the end of the year with the NGP debut and I doubt a quad version of the A9 is currently in a state where it can be mass produced and fully optimized. Apple has already shown what they can do with 2 A9's and the 2 of the 543 so it makes sense.

 

[Mopetar]

5" = Big Phone, not Tablet. And nobody wants to be rocking a game console as a phone. We've been there before, and it's not pretty:

I wouldn't care to use it as a substitute for either device, but there will probably be a few people who do just that.

It's essentially the same hardware as most phones or tablets, touch screen, ARM SoC, 3G connectivity, etc. so why wouldn't it be fair to compare it with those devices?

 

[DivideBYZero]

I wouldn't care to use it as a substitute for either device, but there will probably be a few people who do just that.

It's essentially the same hardware as most phones or tablets, touch screen, ARM SoC, 3G connectivity, etc. so why wouldn't it be fair to compare it with those devices?

Because you have no idea how it will be positioned, and you don't know what OS it will be using. All dedicated Sony gaming devices have had proprietary firmware. Only the Experia Play has Android, and the NGP is certainly not going to be an Experia line device.

 

[boomhower]

Will both ipads be getting iOS 5?

I would imagine so. Aren't they still giving updates to the iPhone 3G?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I would imagine so. Aren't they still giving updates to the iPhone 3G?

I think the 3G is done for. It's going to be 3 years old now and 3 generations behind. Its CPU is just too weak. Seeing the 4.x performance on the 3G means that this is probably EOL.

Not surprised though. The iPad can certainly do fine on iOS 5. The 3GS will be the laggard of the bunch and I say it's a matter of whether the 3GS gets iOS 5 as it is the oldest and slowest of the group if we axe the 3G.

 

[Patranus]

If the iPad 3 will be out in a year, why would they continue to use the A9 and the same GPU with 2x the cores? The mobile sector is evolving way too fast to allow that.

That is the thinking that got Intel in trouble with the P4 during the "Megahertz Wars".

 

[DivideBYZero]

That is the thinking that got Intel in trouble with the P4 during the "Megahertz Wars".

This is a problem with Android devices in general. They have very few ways to differentiate, so the focus has been on specifications, as that's pretty much all they have between them.

 

[Aikouka]

That is the thinking that got Intel in trouble with the P4 during the "Megahertz Wars".

I disagree. Intel's folly related to how they focused on ramping up speed rather than architecture innovation. The mobile sector is booming in a way similar to AMD's introduction of the Athlon 64 X2 where Intel finally stepped back up with Conroe.

As evidence, just look at the power differences between Apple's yearly products. These aren't simply from a faster core but rather newer and faster ARM designs and in the case of the iPad 2, it's actually clocked below its A4-equipped brother.

My thought is that simply by this time next year, so much will have changed that something newer and faster will be available. Maybe a better CPU, GPU or both.

 

[senseamp]

This is a problem with Android devices in general. They have very few ways to differentiate, so the focus has been on specifications, as that's pretty much all they have between them.

It's not a problem with Android devices. It's a problem for Android device manufacturers, just like commoditization is a problem for Wintel computer makers, but resulted in a near monopoly for that ecosystem in PCs.

 

[Mopetar]

Because you have no idea how it will be positioned, and you don't know what OS it will be using. All dedicated Sony gaming devices have had proprietary firmware. Only the Experia Play has Android, and the NGP is certainly not going to be an Experia line device.

I can guess, given the costs of other devices similar to it. From a hardware perspective it's got pretty much entirely the same stuff you'd find in a tablet or mobile phone: ARM SoC, touch screen, 3G/wifi radios, etc.

The fact that they're bothering to include a 3G option at all suggests that they want people to be able to use it as far more than a gaming device. Dropping some customized, locked-down version of Android on it makes the most sense. Then it has a web browser and Sony can set up their own app store.

It's pretty much a tablet/phone with some analogue sticks and a few buttons tacked on for playing games. It's not going to cost significantly more than similarly configured devices, and may end up costing less if Sony wants to subsidize it and make up the money through game sales.

Regardless of what OS it ends up running, if it provides the same type of functionality found on a tablet, phone, or PMP, it's entirely fair to throw it into the mix for comparison.

 

[smartpatrol]

I disagree. Intel's folly related to how they focused on ramping up speed rather than architecture innovation. The mobile sector is booming in a way similar to AMD's introduction of the Athlon 64 X2 where Intel finally stepped back up with Conroe.

I don't quite agree with this. Intel definitely did focus on "architecture innovation". It's just that their whole philosophy with P4 was to pipeline the shit out of it so they could reach insane GHz numbers, and to mitigate the downsides as much as possible with a super-advanced branch prediction unit.

The problem was simply that nobody predicted how badly the transistors would leak as they shrunk down. Intel showed off a 4 GHz P4 in 2004, and they planned to reach 8-10 GHz with the Netburst architecture. The "Prescott" version of P4 was a very different beast from the previous versions, and probably would've been called Pentium 5 if the performance reached anywhere near what they were hoping for. We all know how well that worked out. . . P4 never even reached 4 GHz.

On a side note, the Pentium M was basically a P3 with the P4's branch prediction unit added to it. Of course, that evolved into the Core Duo, and then the Core 2 Duo

 

[Aikouka]

I don't quite agree with this. Intel definitely did focus on "architecture innovation". It's just that their whole philosophy with P4 was to pipeline the shit out of it so they could reach insane GHz numbers, and to mitigate the downsides as much as possible with a super-advanced branch prediction unit.

I think I simplified it too much . I certainly didn't mean to infer that Intel sat on their laurels and just tried to jack up the overall clock speed. It may be more worthwhile to say that they "bet on the wrong horse." I also referred to the A64 X2, where you can argue that the changes started in the A64 with its on-die memory controller, which was eventually used (in their own implementation of course) by Intel as well.

Although, it seems where this discussion stemmed from was the belief that my whole "mobile sector is taking off" statement means that it is going to run into problems like Intel did with their "one-trick pony." I don't believe this is the case at all. Although, the player that I'd like to keep an eye on right now is nVidia. The thing is... they kind of got slapped in the face with the iPad 2 coming out. I recall seeing how poor the GeForce ULV was in Tegra 2 when it barely beat Samsung's Hummingbird in some tests (if I remember correctly), so I had a feeling that it wouldn't be doing too hot against some new contenders.

So with that... what are they going to do next? They had the benefit of essentially "innovating" the desktop GPU market back with their original GeForce, but right now they've got some good competition with PowerVR and Adreno.

Just looking at Wikipedia, there are still two more GPUs similar to the one in the iPad 2 (544 and 554) and then there's the series 6 that will eventually be coming (in time for the iPad 3 perhaps?):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series_6

As I've mentioned, the mobile sector is pretty exciting for me right now. While I may not have the best understanding of it all, I do rather enjoy technology!

 

[zerocool84]

Has the iPad 2 not proven its versatility to you yet? Well, buy it one of those "don't call it a case" Smart Covers that Apple launched with it and you'll be able to turn your new dual-core slate into a bona fide FridgePad. Just add fridge.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/17/visualized-smart-cover-magnets-can-turn-your-apple-tablet-into/

 

[Ns1]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/17/visualized-smart-cover-magnets-can-turn-your-apple-tablet-into/

 

[zerocool84]

I'd be too scared to do that.

 

[Aikouka]

That could actually be kind of sweet if I'm doing any sort of cooking... or I could just prop it up on the counter using the same cover .

 

[alent1234]

I disagree. Intel's folly related to how they focused on ramping up speed rather than architecture innovation. The mobile sector is booming in a way similar to AMD's introduction of the Athlon 64 X2 where Intel finally stepped back up with Conroe.

As evidence, just look at the power differences between Apple's yearly products. These aren't simply from a faster core but rather newer and faster ARM designs and in the case of the iPad 2, it's actually clocked below its A4-equipped brother.

My thought is that simply by this time next year, so much will have changed that something newer and faster will be available. Maybe a better CPU, GPU or both.

i like my ipad 2 but anything from Intel will smoke ARM in pure performance. ipad 2 is still 1024 x 768 which is like from 10 years ago in PC time. and the battery isn't that great. i've had 2 iphones that were turned into ipods and the battery life jumped as soon as the 3G radio stopped being used.

only reason ARM is doing well is that their tech is good enough for most people and good enough always wins. just like intel vs Sun and others in the 1990's

 

[Aikouka]

I'm not sure how we keep getting on weird tangents like Intel vs ARM, but as of right now, Intel hasn't done much in the mobile sector. They're certainly trying with their MeeGo and Atom processors, but they haven't gained much traction at all.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

and the battery isn't that great.

Yes, 10 hours on a consumer device is not that great.

only reason ARM is doing well is that their tech is good enough for most people

Yes, Atom is so much better than ARM.

 

[DivideBYZero]

i like my ipad 2 but anything from Intel will smoke ARM in pure performance. ipad 2 is still 1024 x 768 which is like from 10 years ago in PC time. and the battery isn't that great. i've had 2 iphones that were turned into ipods and the battery life jumped as soon as the 3G radio stopped being used.

only reason ARM is doing well is that their tech is good enough for most people and good enough always wins. just like intel vs Sun and others in the 1990's

There is so much wrong with this post that it's not worth addressing all of it. Simply put, show me anything from Intel that runs on battery for more than even just five hours with the same performance and weighs less than two pounds. Hint: You can't.

 

[smartpatrol]

only reason ARM is doing well is that their tech is good enough for most people and good enough always wins. just like intel vs Sun and others in the 1990's

Um . . . the reason ARM is doing so well is because it DESTROYS even the Atom in energy efficiency.