Iphone 5's 40% better color saturation..

kyrax12

Platinum Member
May 21, 2010
2,416
2
81
Is it significantly noticeable that apple has increased the color saturation of their retina display?


Also do you guys think that the color saturation increased was much needed?


Just a quick survey.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
It looks better than the iPhone 4S, in-person.

However, it does not match my computer screen. Pictures that looked great on my iPhone 5 looked less saturated on my computer screen (calibrated IPS display). So when I edit photos on my iPhone and get them perfect and then throw them online, I end up with a totally different, more de-saturated image than I had previewed on the phone. I tried playing with the brightness adjustments on the iPhone to no avail. I went back to my 4S due to the purple camera flare issue on my iPhone 5 and I'm getting a lot better results with color matching from the phone to the camera. It's not 1:1 but I have a much better idea of what I'm getting on the 4S vs. the 5.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
Is it significantly noticeable that apple has increased the color saturation of their retina display?


Also do you guys think that the color saturation increased was much needed?


Just a quick survey.

Probably. You have people with AMOLED screens that are greatly oversaturated and people think that's the greatest thing ever because the colors "pop". So for the average Joe, a bump in saturation from an under saturated screen to a near perfect calibration should help make people happier.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
It looks better than the iPhone 4S, in-person.

However, it does not match my computer screen. Pictures that looked great on my iPhone 5 looked less saturated on my computer screen (calibrated IPS display). So when I edit photos on my iPhone and get them perfect and then throw them online, I end up with a totally different, more de-saturated image than I had previewed on the phone. I tried playing with the brightness adjustments on the iPhone to no avail. I went back to my 4S due to the purple camera flare issue on my iPhone 5 and I'm getting a lot better results with color matching from the phone to the camera. It's not 1:1 but I have a much better idea of what I'm getting on the 4S vs. the 5.

Kaido, when you say your computer screen is calibrated, is it professional calibrated (to ISF standards)?
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
76
The screen on the 5 is significantly more saturated than the previous ones. More saturated than on my sRGB calibrated U2711. Although I am a color accuracy fanatic, I actually like it this way for a phone. It makes colors less washed out in bright environments, i.e. sunlight.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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Kaido, when you say your computer screen is calibrated, is it professional calibrated (to ISF standards)?

I just use an EyeOne Display 2 (although I'm probably due for another calibration, haha). Calibration aside, the bottom line is I want the pictures to look good even on normal monitors, because that's what 99.9% of the world is going to see my photos on, and the pictures look duller on computer screens than on the iPhone 5's screen. Much duller. With the 4S's screen, I can get a pretty good idea of what I'm going to end up with - it's not totally off-base for the preview on the phone vs. a TN or IPS LCD computer monitor. On the 5's screen, the images are much more vivid on the phone - I had to over-saturate them on the phone before I put them online if I wanted the image I originally intended to create to look that way on a computer screen.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
I just use an EyeOne Display 2 (although I'm probably due for another calibration, haha). Calibration aside, the bottom line is I want the pictures to look good even on normal monitors, because that's what 99.9% of the world is going to see my photos on, and the pictures look duller on computer screens than on the iPhone 5's screen. Much duller. With the 4S's screen, I can get a pretty good idea of what I'm going to end up with - it's not totally off-base for the preview on the phone vs. a TN or IPS LCD computer monitor. On the 5's screen, the images are much more vivid on the phone - I had to over-saturate them on the phone before I put them online if I wanted the image I originally intended to create to look that way on a computer screen.

So when you do photo work, is it not for printing purposes? I would've thought that's value for a correctly calibrated display. I find your use interesting though if the audience is only via computer displays. You need an undersaturated display to work on because the majority of the world has undersaturated displays.
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
1- You can`t calibrate one and not the other and expect images to match. (Monitor calibrated, phone not).

2-You can`t calibrate two devices expect images to match if they`re

a) not working under the same color space (iphone hits 99% of sRGB...can`t find anything conclusive, but assuming it`s operating in that), or

b) can`t match the same levels of saturation within the same color space.


What monitor are you using?

And if you don`t calibrate your printers, it`s all a wash anyway.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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So when you do photo work, is it not for printing purposes? I would've thought that's value for a correctly calibrated display. I find your use interesting though if the audience is only via computer displays. You need an undersaturated display to work on because the majority of the world has undersaturated displays.

Majority is video work
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
1- You can`t calibrate one and not the other and expect images to match. (Monitor calibrated, phone not).

2-You can`t calibrate two devices expect images to match if they`re

a) not working under the same color space (iphone hits 99% of sRGB...can`t find anything conclusive, but assuming it`s operating in that), or

b) can`t match the same levels of saturation within the same color space.


What monitor are you using?

And if you don`t calibrate your printers, it`s all a wash anyway.

All that aside, the bottom line is simple: the iPhone 5 is over-saturated compared to the majority of displays (TN and IPS) that I have seen my photos on. I'm not printing my iPhone photos for a gallery viewing or anything, haha...they're mostly for family, Facebook, Twitter, forums, etc., just stuff that's viewed online on normal monitors.

We can get nit-picky about going nuts on calibration and whatnot, but that's missing the point - the point is that the iPhone 5's screen is over-vivid compared to regular computer monitors, so you end up with a duller image on a computer than you do on the phone. My 4S isn't a 1:1 match, but I get a much better idea of what the picture will look like to the average user than I did on my 5. For example, I'd get an awesome-looking sunset tweaked out in Camera+ on my iPhone 5, post it online, and it'd look...dull. So I'd have to over-saturate it on the camera and then upload it in order for it to look good.

That's all. I think the screen looks great - really bright, really vivid, just kind of a bummer for getting a fairly good idea of how a photo will look on a regular computer. It'd be great if they could tie in a calibration system for the iPhone, I'd totally snag that!
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
Ok. Just so I understand...

The iPhone is over saturated but monitors are dull. So to compensate to make it look ok you increase saturation on the camera to make them look good in a monitor...which is really, at that point over saturating them.

So I'd suggest its the phone that's good and a crap, uncalibrated monitor.

I can't tell if you're ripping the phone or not. The fix is the pc, not the phone.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Ok. Just so I understand...

The iPhone is over saturated but monitors are dull. So to compensate to make it look ok you increase saturation on the camera to make them look good in a monitor...which is really, at that point over saturating them.

So I'd suggest its the phone that's good and a crap, uncalibrated monitor.

I can't tell if you're ripping the phone or not. The fix is the pc, not the phone.

OK, let me clarify. I am ripping on the phone. I think that the iPhone 5's screen is overly vivid. It looks great in person, but when I send the pictures to a computer, they look dull compared to the 5's screen. I'd imagine that most people simply snap pictures and then view them on a computer (Facebook, Twitter, email, etc.), so this is probably pretty normal operation for most iPhone users.

I know that iPhones can't be color-calibrated, but my 4S was a decently close match to my monitors (cheap TN's and even IPS LCD's). I could follow this procedure:

1. Take a picture on the 4S
2. Edit it with a photo app on the phone
3. Send to a computer
4. Picture looks pretty much how it looked on my 4S

This was my procedure on the 5S:

1. Take a picture on the 5
2. Edit it with a photo app on the phone
3. Send to a computer
4. Picture looks noticeably de-saturated, compared to the very vivid 5

Thus, my problem is that on the new iPhone 5, I don't get a very accurate preview of my image due to the vividness of the screen. One of my favorite hobbies is tinkering with photo apps on my iPhone. Generally on my 4S, WYSIWYG (4S screen vs. Computer LCD). On the 5, I ended up having to over-saturate my photos on the iPhone, then it would look how I wanted it to look on the computer screen.

Let's just go ahead and throw the color calibration aspect out of the discussion...most people's iPhone photos are going to normal, cheap TN computer screens, and I'd imagine most people want them to more or less match. For me, the iPhone 5's color difference was noticeable enough to me that, well, I noticed it. I've got some sunsets and sunrises that look spectacular after a little color editing on my iPhone 5, but looked pretty bland on a regular computer screen.

So, bottom line: my gripe is that the iPhone 5's screen is overly saturated and doesn't give me results similar to how it looks on my computer, either TN or IPS or calibrated IPS. It's a consumer product. I kinda want it to match my consumer stuff. But even on my nice IPS screens at home & at work, it still doesn't match. So that's what I'm getting at...yes, we could calibrate every computer in the world to match the new iPhone, but it kind of seems like it should be the other way around. I'm not saying the new screen is a bad thing, just an annoyance for me that my previews are too vivid vs. a computer screen. Make more sense now?
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
So, bottom line: my gripe is that the iPhone 5's screen is overly saturated and doesn't give me results similar to how it looks on my computer, either TN or IPS or calibrated IPS. It's a consumer product. I kinda want it to match my consumer stuff. But even on my nice IPS screens at home & at work, it still doesn't match. So that's what I'm getting at...yes, we could calibrate every computer in the world to match the new iPhone, but it kind of seems like it should be the other way around. I'm not saying the new screen is a bad thing, just an annoyance for me that my previews are too vivid vs. a computer screen. Make more sense now?

The iPhone5 screen is "more saturated" than most consumer screens but it's not "over saturated". But yeah, I get what you're getting at anyways.

If you want to see accurate colors in photos, videos, and all standard consumer content the display needs to closely match the Standard Color Gamut that was used to produce the content, which is called sRGB / Rec.709. A display with a larger Color Gamut cannot show colors that are not in the original content - it just exaggerates and distorts the colors. Most of the recent generation LCD Smartphones have Color Gamuts around 60 percent of the Standard Gamut, which produces somewhat subdued colors. The iPhone 4 has a 64 percent Color Gamut, but the new iPad pulled way ahead and has a virtually perfect 99 percent of the Standard Color Gamut. The iPhone 5 has an almost identical Color Gamut to the new iPad and the Viewing Tests confirm its excellent color accuracy.

http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_9.html
http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.htm
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,391
4,630
136
But why post edit on your phone? Why not just wait until you're on your computer to add your effects and what not?
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Well, here's my $0.02 on this.

The iPhone 5's screen is not "over-saturated". I think some of us are missing the fact that the screen has a higher color gamut.

Higher color gamut means colors of higher intensity will show that intensity. On most computer monitors on the market, the color gamut is not that great (and yeah, this includes some IPS panels as well), and so... you don't actually get to see the "true" intensity of some colors. But on the iPhone 5, the screen has a high enough color gamut that you get to see the "true" intensity of most colors... and then things just suddenly "pop" out at you. It's not because the phone is "pushing" those colors out, but because your monitors could never show how much that color could "pop" before.

This isn't the same thing as pushing the saturation up... like what Samsung does to its AMOLED and SAMOLED screens.

It also explains why some people say the iPhone 5's screen looks more "natural" compared to SAMOLED, because colors that don't have great intensity stays... as they are.

So I'd say the iPhone 5 screen actually shows colors as they are intended to be, and if your monitor doesn't show the same thing, then chances are... your panel just isn't able to display the entire spectrum.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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But why post edit on your phone? Why not just wait until you're on your computer to add your effects and what not?

Oh man, I live on my iPhone haha. Plus I just really enjoy taking photos on my iPhone, doing some quick edits, and being done. It's great when I need to kill some time, like waiting in line somewhere or commuting. There's so many fun apps to tinker with that have a much easier mental approach than uploading the pictures to the computer, importing into Lightroom, opening them one-by-one in Photoshop, doing the tweaks, saving them, and then uploading them online. So it's a hobby thing
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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So I'd say the iPhone 5 screen actually shows colors as they are intended to be, and if your monitor doesn't show the same thing, then chances are... your panel just isn't able to display the entire spectrum.

Yeah, I think that's right. The downside is that, at the present state of technology, it doesn't match the rest of the universe! Now where's my 27" Apple 97% sRGB monitor? haha
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Yeah, I think that's right. The downside is that, at the present state of technology, it doesn't match the rest of the universe! Now where's my 27" Apple 97% sRGB monitor? haha
It's sitting at the local Apple Store waiting for you to pick it up. You just have to hand Apple $900 first.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Yeah, I think that's right. The downside is that, at the present state of technology, it doesn't match the rest of the universe! Now where's my 27" Apple 97% sRGB monitor? haha

It matches the rMBP actually.

In fact, it falls short of the rMBP. My rMBP has a more "correct" white balance than my iPhone 5.

But other than that, color gamut between the two screens are very similar.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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It matches the rMBP actually.

In fact, it falls short of the rMBP. My rMBP has a more "correct" white balance than my iPhone 5.

But other than that, color gamut between the two screens are very similar.

Sounds like I need to upgrade my laptop then
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
It matches the rMBP actually.

In fact, it falls short of the rMBP. My rMBP has a more "correct" white balance than my iPhone 5.

But other than that, color gamut between the two screens are very similar.

You know... speaking of which. I saw a rMBP for the first time in person yesterday at the airport. I really want one now.
 

forumuser

Member
Oct 10, 2012
28
0
61
I've wanted a MBPr for a long time, but Anandtech's mentioning of some stuttering in scrolling gave me pause. Supposedly there'll be a 13" version, which would be pretty awesome.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Apple has fixed most of the scrolling by 10.8.2.

And it only lags in scaled modes (1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200). At "native" 1440 x 900 mode, it's exactly like a regular MBP, but the screen is four times sharper.

And if nothing else, here's the draw: the default color calibration profile is the same as the sRGB profile. Meaning... you actually don't need to calibrate this screen.

On older MBPs, the default color profile is not the same as sRGB, so some applications switch color space and make things look weird. Same goes for Windows. If you don't calibrate, Bootcamp on older MBPs look overly blue and washed out.

But that aside... the iPhone 5 is so close to that kind of performance that it's insane. Apple really packed into the iPhone 5 a display better than all of their past computers combined... save for iMac, rMBP, and Thunderbolt/Cinema Display.
 
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