iPhone SE

[theeedude]

That's just craziness. 4.7" is actually perfect size for a smartphone. 4" is way too small. These are supposed to be computing and media consumption devices too, not just phone calls.
Apple should really just buy a Galaxy S7, and learn how to shrink their bezels.
Screen to body ratio:
iPhone SE: 60.8%
iPhone 6s: 65.6%
Galaxy S7: 72.1%
Galaxy S7 Edge: 76.1%

Now that Samsung has done it, there is really no excuse for Apple not improving area efficiency for the iPhone7 to at least non-Edge S7 level, and the SE is pretty hopelessly inefficient in terms of packaging.
Apple could keep the 4.7" screen and shrink the body area 10%, if it just kept up with Samsung S7 industrial design. Or they could fit a 4.3" screen into iPhone SE sized body. But instead you got more bezel.

 

[vi edit]

Going ultra thin bezels does have some downfalls. Especially if you are a case person. Even a minimalist TPU case on my 2013 Moto X was so close to the screen edge that I couldn't reliably swipe keys that were on the far right edge of the keyboard. The case edge was too close too the screen.

 

[Commodus]

It's odd to argue that the iPhone SE isn't targeted at the developing world... if anything, it's much more targeted than the 5c was.

When Apple announced the SE, one of its big stats was Chinese iPhone adoption rates (most newcomers to the iPhone get a 4-inch model). Between the price cut and the performance, it's clearly aiming at developing markets where many people are thankful if they can afford even the entry-level iPhone.

The 5c was designed with the developing world in mind, I believe, but Apple was trying to squeeze it through the company's usual hand-me-down upgrade cycle (i.e. where last year's hot phone is this year's budget model). The problem, as you might guess, is that Apple started it in the middle of its range. The company would probably have been better off it had waited until the 5c could be sold as a starter model -- everyone would have understood why it existed then. That and a lower price would have helped.

 

[sweenish]

The 5C was a hypocritical mess.

A brand new phone! With last year's guts.
Unapologetically plastic! After years of going after everyone else for using plastic, regardless of how well used it was. But it's Apple, they're doing it "right."
A great starter phone! Surprisingly expensive. Especially given the plastic shell.

The 5 SE seems to correct all of that. And people will jump on it. It's Apple, and it's affordable. I still don't think size is going to be the major factor driving sales.

 

[Commodus]

The 5C was a hypocritical mess.

A brand new phone! With last year's guts.
Unapologetically plastic! After years of going after everyone else for using plastic, regardless of how well used it was. But it's Apple, they're doing it "right."
A great starter phone! Surprisingly expensive. Especially given the plastic shell.

The 5 SE seems to correct all of that. And people will jump on it. It's Apple, and it's affordable. I still don't think size is going to be the major factor driving sales.

The "unapologetically plastic" stuff was ridiculous, but there's an important distinction: Apple didn't pitch the 5c as a starter phone when it was new. A lot of that came from people seeing early leaks, assuming that the 5c was a budget phone, and creating an entire narrative around that assumption. Apple didn't do a good job of setting expectations, to be fair, but this was the same problem that had many convinced that any Apple tablet would start at $999 before the iPad was official -- folks confused rumors and analyst predictions with the truth.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with the notion that the price is the biggest deal here. It's just that there really is a market for phones that size, and a 4-inch screen isn't as much of a deterrent as some would have you think.

 

[sweenish]

At no point have I said the screen size will deter sales, if that counts for anything. And I have never denied that there is a market for smaller phones.

I just think that market is a lot smaller than it appears online.

 

[Geekbabe]

An awful lot of people I know have the 5 & 5S and are thrilled to be getting a chance to upgrade to another small phone. Frankly, I don't have the eyesight to deal with a four inch screen.

 

[sweenish]

Anecdotes are worthless as a counterpoint.

My wife was the same way, but after visiting family and handling my sisters 6S+ for more than a minute, she sees the benefit. She might still get a smaller phone in the future, but she's not against a large phone either. I've actually addressed this anecdote already.

 

[luv2liv]

i remember some 3 or 4 years ago, some dummy in this forum proclaimed 3.5 inches to be the perfect size. thats why apple only make 3.5 inches. lol
im thankful apple no longer make a 1 size fits everyone phone. now, nobody can proclaim what the perfect size is!

 

[kaerflog]

Putting better components in a phone designed 2 years ago is just laziness on Apples part. Sure it will save them tons of money but just pure un-innovative.
Apple can easily fit a bigger screen size in that same factor. Something like 4.3" screen.
Apple should be putting at least a 5" screen in a similar form factor for the 7 or else there will be a backlash. After 2 years and if they still have the same 4.7" and 5.5", I'd be really surprised.

 

[openwheel]

Apple is trying to degrade our eye sights faster, so they can release the next break through in technology: Apple Glasses.

 

[blairharrington]

After 2 years and if they still have the same 4.7" and 5.5", I'd be really surprised.

Don't be. They prototyped a series of phones ranging in sizes and settled on 4.7" and 5.5". I expect they will stick with this screen size for a long time. They will simply change everything around the phone in the meantime.

 

[Commodus]

At no point have I said the screen size will deter sales, if that counts for anything. And I have never denied that there is a market for smaller phones.

I just think that market is a lot smaller than it appears online.

Fair enough -- I suppose I should say instead that 4-inch screens are more of a draw than you might think. Reportedly, about 20 percent of US phone buyers prefer screens around that size, so there's a market of some kind.

 

[sweenish]

And I claimed that a majority of them would likely be just fine with a larger phone, if forced to get one for whatever reason.

You also don't know what I think. Basically, my last three or so responses have just had me repeating myself. Makes me think I at least covered my stance pretty well.

The other thing is that we are never going to know if people snatched this up for size and price was a bonus, or vice versa. So my guessing is about as useless as your trying to convince me that my guess is off.

 

[zerocool84]

All those die hard iPhone people hated on larger screen phones and said those small screens were the perfect size until Apple made large screen phones. Now that Apple made a fairly modern small screen phone, you can almost guarantee none of those people are going back to 4".

 

[Deeko]

I strongly dislike iOS but I really like the idea of this phone. I hate big phones and love that someone is making a truly high end phone at that size. Don't even care about the price. I have a Sony Z5 Compact for the same reason, although it's still a bit too big & really only mid-to-high end. While I have no plans to buy this due to its iOS-ness, I hope it's a smash hit and other manufacturers follow suit.

 

[Eug]

All those die hard iPhone people hated on larger screen phones and said those small screens were the perfect size until Apple made large screen phones. Now that Apple made a fairly modern small screen phone, you can almost guarantee none of those people are going back to 4".

I still prefer 4" phones. I have a 5S and my wife has the 6s, and overall I much prefer the size of the 5S. For me (small hands), it is quite difficult to use the 6s one-handed, while it's much easier with the 5S. The 6s constantly feels like it's going to fall out of my hand if I try to use it one-handed, so I have to use it with two hands.

However, the big issue now is that developers seem now to be predominantly developing for 4.7" and larger phones.

There are sites that I have visited that now almost unreadable with 4" phones (and even hard to read with 4.7" phones), but have added stupidity of disallowing zoom functionality. Why would a mobile website refuse to allow zooming? Yet these websites now exist in the 4.7"/5.5" screen era, whereas they weren't as common before. The good sites work on all current sizes, but it seems that some developers are just too lazy to make their phones work right across the spectrum of common phone sizes. Either that or they just can't afford the costs of testing for multiple phone sizes.

I went with a 4.7" phone before, and didn't like it and went back to 4". However, that was years ago, when the mobile internet world was different. Given the state of mobile internet now, I am going to give the iPhone 7 a try. OTOH, had the iPhone SE come with TouchID 2 and better video stabilization, I might have gotten the iPhone SE instead. And had mobile websites kept better support for 4" screens, I definitely would have gotten the iPhone SE, as my only major beef with it is that it doesn't have TouchID 2. (I'm not a huge fan of Force Touch, so its lack doesn't bother me.)

 

[mrochester]

I judge Apple by their own standards. If the iPhone 5C was a success we wouldn't need this SE because they would have kept shoving new guts in the 5C. If the Apple Watch was a huge success then Apple wouldn't be lowering the prices prior to releasing a new model. The only reason to lower a price in the middle of a product cycle is to increase demand.

I don't see the point of judging Apple by the standards of other companies when their business decisions are going to be based only on their own expectations.

That's like saying that if the iPhone 5S was such a huge success (which it was) we wouldn't have seen the 6 or 6Plus. Your argument, as usual, makes no sense. The iPhone 5C was a success for Apple. The iPhone 5C alone was bigger than the entire smartphone business of some Android OEMS. That makes it a success.

Now, back to topic, I have my 64GB SE ordered. So looking forward to getting back to a sensibly sized, powerful smartphone running iOS. It's win, win, win in that regard.

 

[TheStu]

All those die hard iPhone people hated on larger screen phones and said those small screens were the perfect size until Apple made large screen phones. Now that Apple made a fairly modern small screen phone, you can almost guarantee none of those people are going back to 4".

If I can trade in my leased 6s for this, I will almost certainly switch back. The ONLY hangup I have is that it doesn't have TouchID 2, but everything else is everything I want. I love the 5/5s/SE design.

 

[sweenish]

I still prefer 4" phones. I have a 5S and my wife has the 6s, and overall I much prefer the size of the 5S. For me (small hands), it is quite difficult to use the 6s one-handed, while it's much easier with the 5S. The 6s constantly feels like it's going to fall out of my hand if I try to use it one-handed, so I have to use it with two hands.

However, the big issue now is that developers seem now to be predominantly developing for 4.7" and larger phones.

There are sites that I have visited that now almost unreadable with 4" phones (and even hard to read with 4.7" phones), but have added stupidity of disallowing zoom functionality. Why would a mobile website refuse to allow zooming? Yet these websites now exist in the 4.7"/5.5" screen era, whereas they weren't as common before. The good sites work on all current sizes, but it seems that some developers are just too lazy to make their phones work right across the spectrum of common phone sizes. Either that or they just can't afford the costs of testing for multiple phone sizes.

I went with a 4.7" phone before, and didn't like it and went back to 4". However, that was years ago, when the mobile internet world was different. Given the state of mobile internet now, I am going to give the iPhone 7 a try. OTOH, had the iPhone SE come with TouchID 2 and better video stabilization, I might have gotten the iPhone SE instead. And had mobile websites kept better support for 4" screens, I definitely would have gotten the iPhone SE, as my only major beef with it is that it doesn't have TouchID 2. (I'm not a huge fan of Force Touch, so its lack doesn't bother me.)

It's amazing.

Your anecdotal personal use case has completely negated their general stance.

More seriously, there's literally a "market" for any preference. The big question is always the size.

And there's never a way to know this market size because there's always something muddying the waters.

Apple's attempt is, spec-wise, better than Sony's I think. But that price will muddy the waters.

 

[sweenish]

That's like saying that if the iPhone 5S was such a huge success (which it was) we wouldn't have seen the 6 or 6Plus. Your argument, as usual, makes no sense. The iPhone 5C was a success for Apple. The iPhone 5C alone was bigger than the entire smartphone business of some Android OEMS. That makes it a success.

Now, back to topic, I have my 64GB SE ordered. So looking forward to getting back to a sensibly sized, powerful smartphone running iOS. It's win, win, win in that regard.

The 5C was not a success, for Apple. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a one-off device.

This has been covered already in the thread, I think by poofyhairguy.

 

[slackerinabox]

And I claimed that a majority of them would likely be just fine with a larger phone, if forced to get one for whatever reason.

.

It's weird how many guys here are assuming they know how other people, especially *most*, think and act.What makes you the spokesperson for the human race? People who live different lives than you have different priorities,, why is this difficult to understand? Some want to save money, some want a small phone, some want a large screen. My wife, for example, likes itty bitty hand bags and the 6s plus she bought was a miscalculation. I for one like a big phone but miss playing candy crush one handed on the subway so see the appeal for city dwellers (especially since skinny pants are more popular here). I for one like choice, what the fucks wrong with that?

 

[Rakehellion]

Bonus round: We also now know the Apple Watch isn't very successful too after Monday. Why?

Because when was the last time Apple dropped the price on a mobile product without having a successor?

The original iPhone?

 

[Commodus]

The 5C was not a success, for Apple. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a one-off device.

This has been covered already in the thread, I think by poofyhairguy.

I think it's more a question of language than anything. There's a difference between "didn't meet expectations" and the "omg total flop Steve Jobs would never have..." hyperbole that we've seen in this thread.

A flop for Apple is something like the third-generation iPod shuffle or Power Mac G4 Cube -- something that sells poorly enough (or triggers enough of a public outcry) that the company cancels it or goes back to the drawing board sooner than expected. That wasn't the iPhone 5c. It stuck around for two years, and Apple even created a lower-end version of it (the 8GB model) instead of cutting prices on the existing version.

To me, that suggests that Apple's concern wasn't so much poor sales as that it didn't achieve what the company wanted: to accelerate sales of iPhones beyond the flagship model. It merely held the status quo. The iPhone SE is a reflection of what Apple was really aiming for all along -- to make a lower-end phone that was fresh and interesting.

 

[s44]

I for one like choice, what the fucks wrong with that?

Ask Steve Jobs (or his spirit)...