Ipod 4G battery longevity?

[dighn]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So what's the conclusion, should I keep the Ipod, or is there a better player $269 + tax can buy?

since you can replace the battery yourself for 30-40 i say you keep it

but then i might be a bit biased cuz i'm buying one soon

although the iriver seems to be a better value if you can get it for around that price

 

[dartworth]

dude if you haven't opened that thing yet, you don't want it that bad...take it back.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Hi.
I bought an Ipod 4G 20gb today, but I haven't opened it. Someone told me that the battery dies after 18 months and then it costs 100 bucks to replace it. I am thinking about returning it, and getting an iriver IHP 120. Does anyone know what the longevity and replacement cost of iriver and the ipod batteries is?

I have an iHP-120. I contemplated selling it to get the same iPod you bought, and after going over everything, the iHP was the better value. The feature set is awesome, but the iRiver still walks all over the iPod when it comes to sound quality, which is the most important aspect IMO.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
I think the general consensus is to let the iPod drain all the way down before you charge it, instead of charging it every night or whatever. The less charges you give it the longer the battery should last.

Actually that's the opposite of what I've been told. Apparently if you let the battery drain all the way, it's very bad for it. The best strategy is apparently to charge it as frequently as possible.

To respond to the OP's question: Don't listen to these other people who have purchased cheap substitutes. The 4G iPod is by far the best MP3 player on the market right now. The battery should be fine. I know of a user on AT who still has a 2G iPod that he has used extensively every day for over 2 years and his battery still holds an 8 hour charge.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: 50
I have a quick question. I might be getting one of these soon, are there any cases for the 4th generation? Thanks

Only for the 40gig. The 20 has no accessories except for a new USB cable (still has the firewire, headphones).

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So what's the conclusion, should I keep the Ipod, or is there a better player $269 + tax can buy?

You can probably find an iHP-120 for that price, if you look around.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So what's the conclusion, should I keep the Ipod, or is there a better player $269 + tax can buy?

IMO there is nothing better at that price point.

 

[konichiwa]

Hmm re: the battery the geeks over on ipodlounge.com say it's best to let it drain...

 

[Mannkind]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Hi.
I bought an Ipod 4G 20gb today, but I haven't opened it. Someone told me that the battery dies after 18 months and then it costs 100 bucks to replace it. I am thinking about returning it, and getting an iriver IHP 120. Does anyone know what the longevity and replacement cost of iriver and the ipod batteries is?

Dear lord, this is dumb (not the OP, but the stupid rumors). First, people spouting crap about the iPod battery dying are misinformed. The whole thing was over hyped because some guy used his excessively and the battery died after 18 months. My 3G iPod battery was 18 months old and still held on for 7 hours or so.
Jeesh. AND after that, you can buy a battery from ipodbattery.com for something like 39 bucks
And it is very simple to replace. Ugh. I've heard this from 5 friends... they look to get an iPod, I say I love mine, they love to use mine. They then hear from one of their friends that the battery dies in 18 months, a year, less than a year, whatever, the point is people are being misinformed. Keep your iPod, you'll love it, use it, wear it out, and if the battery dies in 18 months, know you can get one for like 40 bucks. (I'm sure iPodbattery.com wil have the new 4G ones soon if they don't already)

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Hmm re: the battery the geeks over on ipodlounge.com say it's best to let it drain...

geeks say lots of things


its just the total number of charges + shelf life. yes lithium ion has a shelf life.


The battery lifespan you're getting is pretty normal for lithium ion. All batteries wear out, and Lithium ion batteries that haven't even been used can be expected to be severely degraded by internal oxidation after two to three years. And that's two or three years after they're manufactured, not after you buy them.

Using a Li-I battery normally doesn't make it age any faster, but the warmer it is the sooner it'll die. So don't leave your mobile phone in the sun. Apart from that, there's nothing you can do but buy new batteries when the old ones die, and try to buy batteries that haven't been sitting on the shelf for a year. Good luck decoding the serial number to figure out the manufacturing date.

Lithium ion batteries in storage will last longer if they're stored with about a 40% charge, but the difference isn't large, and is irrelevant for a battery you're actually using.

If you don't like the short lifespan of lithium ion, you're in trouble, because it's pretty hard to find a phone that doesn't use Li-I these days. NiMH lasts longer than Li-I, and the fifty-year-old NiCd chemistry lasts longer still, by a large margin; if you've got a good charger and only charge once every several days, you may be able to get decades of life out of a NiCd pack made from modern brand name cells. But the energy density of lithium ion (energy per unit weight) is about twice as good as NiCd (and about 1.5 times as good as NiMH), so despite its fussiness and lousy lifespan, the portable device market has turned to Li-I en masse.
http://www.dansdata.com/danletters112.htm





Despite its overall advantages, lithium-ion has its drawbacks. It is fragile and requires a protection circuit to maintain safe operation. Built into each pack, the protection circuit limits the peak voltage of each cell during charge and prevents the cell voltage from dropping too low on discharge. In addition, the cell temperature is monitored to prevent temperature extremes. The maximum charge and discharge current is limited to between 1C and 2C. With these precautions in place, the possibility of metallic lithium plating occurring due to overcharge is virtually eliminated.

Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures.

Manufacturers are constantly improving lithium-ion. New and enhanced chemical combinations are introduced every six months or so. With such rapid progress, it is difficult to assess how well the revised battery will age.

Storage in a cool place slows the aging process of lithium-ion (and other chemistries). Manufacturers recommend storage temperatures of 15°C (59°F). In addition, the battery should be partially charged during storage. The manufacturer recommends a 40% charge.

The most economical lithium-ion battery in terms of cost-to-energy ratio is the cylindrical 18650 (18 is the diameter and 650 the length in mm). This cell is used for mobile computing and other applications that do not demand ultra-thin geometry. If a slim pack is required, the prismatic lithium-ion cell is the best choice. These cells come at a higher cost in terms of stored energy.

Advantages

* High energy density - potential for yet higher capacities.
* Does not need prolonged priming when new. One regular charge is all that's needed
* Relatively low self-discharge - self-discharge is less than half that of nickel-based batteries.
* Low Maintenance - no periodic discharge is needed; there is no memory

Limitations

* Requires protection circuit to maintain voltage and current within safe limits.
* Subject to aging, even if not in use - storing the battery in a cool place and at 40% charge reduces the aging effect.
* Moderate discharge current - not suitable for heavy loads.
* Transportation restrictions - shipment of larger quantities may be subject to regulatory control. This restriction does not apply to personal carry-on batteries.
* Expensive to manufacture - about 40 percent higher in cost than nickel-cadmium.
* Not fully mature - metals and chemicals are changing on a continuing basis.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm

http://www.dansdata.com/danletters017.htm

more links from dansdata on lithium ion

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Hmm re: the battery the geeks over on ipodlounge.com say it's best to let it drain...

geeks say lots of things


its just the total number of charges + shelf life. yes lithium ion has a shelf life.
<snip>

Cliff's Notes? Should I charge mine all the time or let it drain?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Hmm re: the battery the geeks over on ipodlounge.com say it's best to let it drain...

geeks say lots of things


its just the total number of charges + shelf life. yes lithium ion has a shelf life.
<snip>

Cliff's Notes? Should I charge mine all the time or let it drain?

egads, i give u pearls andu toss em away?

means it doesn't bloody matter. unless u bake it in an oven or hot car, lithium ions have a shelf life of 2-3 years starting from the day it hits the box at the factory.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: dartworth
dude if you haven't opened that thing yet, you don't want it that bad...take it back.

Well, I do want an mp3 player, but I can control myself a little to evaluate my options.
I have a question about iriver dimensions. It seems like they are larger than Ipod 0.76 vs 0.56 inches thick, but does that include the knob that sticks out on the iriver.

 

[SuperTool]

My brother tells me that Ipod will let you transfer MP3's to it, but not from it to your computer. Does the ihp120 also have this defect or is it ipod specific?

 

[KokomoGST]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.... besides, because the ispud is so commonplace now... it's like the Kleenex of MP3 HD players. I'm sure that there will be aftermarket or secondhand hacks, tweaks, etc galore for the 4g soon.

Even though I used to be a iPod hater, Apple has pretty much managed to fix all the complaints I had about it. Sure the sound quality isn't uberperfect but with the 3g and now 4g, it's pretty much on par with others. And now size and battery life are pretty much as good as it gets.

You can transfer a whole host of stuff to it as other hacks and programs gain support for it. AFAIK, MP3s aren't a problem for Ipods. That's the main selling point (other than the iPods reduced price) that has me considering a 40Gig iPod versus waiting for the new ultrasmall Sony HD ATRAC3 player.

 

[bonkers325]

letting the battery drain completely is for NiMh batteries only. one full charge cycle for a lion battery is from start to finish. so charging it when its at around 40% capacity is the best way to keep it alive (if u use it everyday)

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
My brother tells me that Ipod will let you transfer MP3's to it, but not from it to your computer. Does the ihp120 also have this defect or is it ipod specific?

It's not a defect, it's copyright protection. A really weak implementation, you can use 3rd party programs such as Ephpod for Windows and iPod Ripper for Mac to transfer songs onto a different computer.

 

[RedPickle]

Originally posted by: Xionide
Return it. Ipods are WAY overrated. A lot of people have ipods, a lot of people have macs, a lot of people use aol. Do not listen to these aomacpod users.

-Xionide

REVOLT!!!!

 

iriver :thumbsup:

ipod :thumbsdown:

 

[AT100]

I read somewhere the iRiver's battery's last something like 3000 charges. However, the site looked a little dicey. I remember seeing a website (from here perhaps) that sells the batterys alone for like 30 bucks and you install it your self for the iPod.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: dartworth
dude if you haven't opened that thing yet, you don't want it that bad...take it back.

Well, I do want an mp3 player, but I can control myself a little to evaluate my options.
I have a question about iriver dimensions. It seems like they are larger than Ipod 0.76 vs 0.56 inches thick, but does that include the knob that sticks out on the iriver.

think of it in terms of volume. the iriver is twice the volume of the ipod last i checked.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Hmm re: the battery the geeks over on ipodlounge.com say it's best to let it drain...

geeks say lots of things


its just the total number of charges + shelf life. yes lithium ion has a shelf life.
<snip>

Cliff's Notes? Should I charge mine all the time or let it drain?

egads, i give u pearls andu toss em away?

means it doesn't bloody matter. unless u bake it in an oven or hot car, lithium ions have a shelf life of 2-3 years starting from the day it hits the box at the factory.

Exactly.

 

[Mannkind]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
My brother tells me that Ipod will let you transfer MP3's to it, but not from it to your computer. Does the ihp120 also have this defect or is it ipod specific?

I think you should stop listening to your 'friends' and 'brother' they don't seem to know the subject all that well and just give you bad advice.
First, all in all, the iPod is a portable HD. You can transfer ANYTHING to and from it without problem. The only 'defect" as you put it, is when you SYNC the music onto the iPod that (for copy protection reasons) you can't simply copy them right back off. However, they are easily found in windows by showing hidden files, although the filenames have now become numbers. And as mentioned, there are programs to copy the music files properly off of the ipod. The point, while misinformed, becomes even more silly when you consider the information mentioned above.

 

[leftish]

maybe get a free one and don't worry about the battery life
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=7320650

 

[brtspears2]

Originally posted by: leftish
maybe get a free one and don't worry about the battery life
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=7320650

They should go stick you on an island and die for your stupid refer link.

But anyways my original iPod over 18 months still held a charge of about 6 hours. I guess if you were using your ipod 24/7 for 18 months, you would surely wear down your battery. I guess one jerk with his "18 month battery" caused a huge problem. Of course no one cries wolf when their laptop batteries die since that's all normal.