IPS Panel for Notebooks?

[Schadenfroh]

Greetings,

I am tired of my ThinkPad T500's TN, non-LED back-lit display. The resolution is acceptable (1680x1050 @ 15.4"), but viewing angles are terrible, it is too dim and the IQ does not look anywhere near as good as on my desktop's IPS panel.

I know IBM / Lenovo discontinued IPS panels after a certain model of the T60 line.

Anyone know if IPS panels even exist for modern laptops anymore? If so, any aftermarket panels that will work on my 15.4" T500? I know that a custom panel is required for each laptop line, so I am most likely SOL until at least the next generation. Or will I always be doomed to endure TN displays on my notebooks?

 

[Zensal]

I believe the MacBook Pros use IPS panels, but I think they are the only ones.

 

[Bass]

I am pretty sure that the Macbook Pro's display still uses a TN panel (though that's not to say that it is bad, if anything, it is better than most other TN displays on other notebooks).

The reality is that all but the most powerful workstation class notebooks have TN panels on their displays these days. There was a recent article here about the HP EliteBook 8740w, which has the option of an IPS screen, but the entire notebook is prohibitively expensive in my opinion.

I myself have a T400 and also had similar feelings about my display (and I don't have a desktop yet), so I ended up buying a Dell U2211H to use as an external monitor. By no means is it the best IPS display around, but it was still a vast improvement.

 

[Sp12]

I believe the sony Vaio series has a ~200$ upgrade to a 1920*1080 IPS display.

 

[gorobei]

i remember hearing that the hp 2740 has a ips option and that the lenovo x-series tablets as well, but that was a year or 2 ago.

 

[Absolution75]

lenovo x200/x201 have ips panels i believe - may want to double check

I know for a fact that the x200t does have one.

 

[lsv]

Most manufacturers have an option to use an IPS or VA panel. Also... TN panels have gotten really good. Are you a designer?

 

[Sentry2]

As far as I know... the only options(for IPS) are the dream color panels from HP and a few of the older Thinkpads had them as options too.

^TN panels and really good do not belong in the same sentence(IMO)... and the only reason some of the RGB LED(still TN) screen options from Dell and other manufacturers can be considered good is because, sadly, the bar has been set so low by the average notebook panel. If there are other IPS/VA options please point us to them.

 

[Voo]

Don't IPS panels use more power than TN panels? I'd think that'd also factor in besides the price and not being able to market that feature to the average user.

 

[Throckmorton]

The manufacturers should be touting the color accuracy, because almost everybody deals with digital photos, especially since we're all uploading them to Facebook. I can only edit my pics on my 2405FPW, because my laptop screen doesn't accurately show colors.

 

[Voo]

The manufacturers should be touting the color accuracy, because almost everybody deals with digital photos, especially since we're all uploading them to Facebook

Uh I pretty much doubt that that's important for the average hobbyist photographer and good color accuracy for facebook photos? I mean 99.9% of all people seeing those pictures will use TN panels (and nobody would print them) so you'd get more "realistic" results that way (well not really, but you get the point)

Sounds like casting pearls before swine - and considering the 100+$ price increase I just don't see the mass market falling for it.

 

[manimal]

Uh I pretty much doubt that that's important for the average hobbyist photographer and good color accuracy for facebook photos? I mean 99.9% of all people seeing those pictures will use TN panels (and nobody would print them) so you'd get more "realistic" results that way (well not really, but you get the point)

Sounds like casting pearls before swine - and considering the 100+$ price increase I just don't see the mass market falling for it.

the point of reference is uniformity in various iterations..


hence having the most accurate image to start...

 

[Throckmorton]

Uh I pretty much doubt that that's important for the average hobbyist photographer and good color accuracy for facebook photos? I mean 99.9% of all people seeing those pictures will use TN panels (and nobody would print them) so you'd get more "realistic" results that way (well not really, but you get the point)

Sounds like casting pearls before swine - and considering the 100+$ price increase I just don't see the mass market falling for it.

I know it won't help when most have TN but I'm just trying to market IPS to the masses. If people know photos are better with IPS, they're more likely to pay extra for it, just like they pay extra for better cameras (or supposedly better).

 

[Zap]

If people know photos are better with IPS, they're more likely to pay extra for it, just like they pay extra for better cameras (or supposedly better).

You seriously believe that most people will be "likely to pay extra" for a monitor because they perceive it as better? You are sadly mistaken. Most people want either the cheapest one (of a particular size) or the one that looks nicer or the one recommended by the salesperson. By "looks nicer" I mean it has a brighter picture and the bezel/base looks appealing.

 

[Throckmorton]

You seriously believe that most people will be "likely to pay extra" for a monitor because they perceive it as better? You are sadly mistaken. Most people want either the cheapest one (of a particular size) or the one that looks nicer or the one recommended by the salesperson. By "looks nicer" I mean it has a brighter picture and the bezel/base looks appealing.

People pay extra for Macs don't they? Consumers aren't as stupid as you think. Usually ignorant of which technology is better and which is worse (by design of marketing people), but not stupid.

 

[Absolution75]

You seriously believe that most people will be "likely to pay extra" for a monitor because they perceive it as better? You are sadly mistaken. Most people want either the cheapest one (of a particular size) or the one that looks nicer or the one recommended by the salesperson. By "looks nicer" I mean it has a brighter picture and the bezel/base looks appealing.

Yeah, what you say is very true. But you can apply it to IPS panels as well. Marketing is marketing. Salespeople can pitch IPS panels, make them flashy, etc.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Lots of misinformation going around in this thread.

MOST notebooks DO NOT have an option for an IPS, PVA, or MVA panel. There are a few exceptions, such as (AFAIK) the HP DreamColor 2 panel, available in a few of their Elitebook models. A few tablet notebooks also come with IPS panels, due to the need for better viewing angles.

Your average Macbook Pro, Sony Vaio Z, Dell XPS, Lenovo T series, HP Envy, etc. all have TN displays. However, these TN panels are of varying quality. For example, the HP Envy 14 Radiance Display (now discontinued) was a god among peasants, so to speak, regardless of being TN: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Envy-14-1010eg-Notebook.34788.0.html (scroll down to the viewing angles section). The Macbook Pro, Dell XPS RGB LED, Sony Vaio Z, and even the HP BrightView panels tend to be fairly good, with the Dell RGB LED panel being about the best among them (from personal experience).

Don't judge TN panels simply on a few crappy Acer, ASUS, Gateway, Dell Inspiron, etc. displays that you've seen (for example, I loved my ASUS UL30A, but the screen was absolutely horrid). There are varying levels of quality among the crappier panels, and while I would still take a good IPS over TN any day, the best of the TNs really aren't that bad.

 

[Zap]

People pay extra for Macs don't they? Consumers aren't as stupid as you think. Usually ignorant of which technology is better and which is worse (by design of marketing people), but not stupid.

How much market share does Apple have? How much of that is due to being a Mac/having OSX?

I said nothing about consumers being stupid. Consumers are just trying to get the best value for their money. Nobody would turn down a "better" choice all else being equal. Once there is a big cost differential, those who aren't obsessed or made of money will stop to consider what exactly they are getting for the extra money, and then decide if it is worth the extra cost.

Does everyone choose the "better" choice when it comes to buying? No. Most people can't afford that. I think in a tech/enthusiast forum we have a disproportionate population of consumers that would choose the "better" choice in their purchases when it comes to computer peripherals. That doesn't mean the rest of the world thinks that way.

Let's take this away from computer peripherals for a moment.

What groceries do you buy and what kitchenware do you use at home? I know a chef, and I've seen him "tsk" and shake his head over stuff he sees in other homes. Obviously he is passionate about his field, but does that mean the typical consumer is being dumb when choosing less costly items to furnish a kitchen?

I've perused audiophile forums. Wow, talk about people with exacting demands for their equipment - with requisite high price tags. Some of those people would be aghast at what most of us listen to music with. Does that make the rest of us "dumb consumers" for not spending huge amounts of money just to get that more precise and warmer sound?

What I'm getting at is that not everyone shares the same priorities nor has the same needs as everyone else. To suggest that everyone should think the same way as one does about their personal preferences is just not being realistic.

 

[Throckmorton]

You're missing my point. Regular people can and do pay extra for better products. It's not just Mac fanboys buying Macs, but also normal people who value the sturdy build, glass screens, etc etc. It's not just photography geeks buying good digital cameras instead of cheap junk made by GE or whatever. If you go to any department store you'll see high quality cookware, and people buy it.

As it is, the general public has no idea what TN and IPS even mean, because it's not revealed to them in marketing. If it were, a lot of people would choose IPS just like a large minority of consumers choose Canon and Panasonic cameras, RWD vs FWD cars, etc.

Following your logic, BMW should be out of business because only car enthusiasts would buy them and everybody else would buy FWD Acuras. But BMW actually puts out ads touting RWD as better, ultimate driving machine, etc. So even people who don't notice a difference buy RWD because they know it's better. No one advertises their IPS screens as better. In fact it's the TN displays proclaiming how low their response times are.

 

[MrCoyote]

Everybody has there priorities in life. Some people like high-end audiophile equipment, others expensive cars, etc...

Personally, when I buy something that I know I'm going to keep for awhile and use constantly, I'll look for the better made product. I bought a 5.1 set of Paradigm loudspeakers and a high-end amplifier, because I have a large collection of CD's, Super Audio CD's and DVD-Audio music. What good is it to play that over some cheapo computer speakers? Maybe if it was lossy compressed audio that you get from the iTunes store, then all I would need is a cheap pair of earbuds. Forget playing lossy 128kb files on loudspeakers. iTunes people don't know that they are getting less quality these days for their money, compared to when CD's were popular.

Same goes for monitors. The only reason TN screens are popular is because they are cheap and most people don't know any better. The best panels right now are the IPS, E-IPS, S-IPS for color reproduction. TN and white LED backlit do not come no where near IPS screens with conventional fluorescent backlight.

 

[Zap]

a lot of people would choose IPS just like a large minority of consumers choose Canon and Panasonic cameras, RWD vs FWD cars, etc.

Heh, large minority. You can lead a horse to water... educate all you want, but in the end the larger majority will chose the cheaper product. Go talk to non-enthusiasts and non-media/production professionals who aren't independently wealthy, and see how many you can convince to spend 50% more for an IPS panel over TN.

Some people choose a BMW because they feel it to be a better car. Everyone else chooses BMW because it is a status symbol. :twisted:

Would you feel better if you can convince people to buy IPS monitors as a status symbol regardless of their supposed image quality?

Just so you don't think I'm bickering with you while curled up around my TN monitor sucking my thumb, my main screen is a Samsung 305T Plus which I think has an S-PVA panel and my secondary screen is a Dell 2005FPW which I think has an S-IPS. My previous main screen was a Soyo Topaz 24" which I think had an MVA panel. So yes, some people do pay more for better products. However, I also run a Core i7 975X with Corsair Dominator RAM and I have a bunch of SSDs (up to 256GB) scattered throughout my systems, so I'm not exactly your typical consumer either.