Iran, Israel and America

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Was Jordan in on the attack by Israel against Iraq?
They flew over Jordanian airspace!

Jordan had an air force and they could have alerted Iraq.
Iraq did not blame Jordan afterwords.

At times it is easier for a country to state Mea Culpa and keep on their business in order to stay out of the pissing match

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

I am sure that Israel would be less concerned about nukes if there were no countries that were publicly committed to her destruction.

And also if there were no countries that tactually/covertly supported her destruction.

Accomplish that and the scenario might be a little different.

 

[Aimster]

Saudi Arabia is going to have nuclear plants in 10-20 years.
Israel is going to attack Saudi Arabia? Never

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Was Jordan in on the attack by Israel against Iraq?
They flew over Jordanian airspace!

Jordan had an air force and they could have alerted Iraq.
Iraq did not blame Jordan afterwords.

At times it is easier for a country to state Mea Culpa and keep on their business in order to stay out of the pissing match

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

I am sure that Iran would be less concerned about nukes if there were no countries that were publicly committed to her destruction.

And also if there were no countries that tactually/covertly supported her destruction.

Accomplish that and the scenario might be a little different.

You mean Iran right? The US has troops inside Iran this very minute as part of its plan to bring down the democratically elected government of Iran.

The only way Iran can protect itself, in the long run, from US/Israeli aggression, is through nukes. Saddam proved that when he disarmed. Disarm and you get invaded.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Saudi Arabia is going to have nuclear plants in 10-20 years.
Israel is going to attack Saudi Arabia? Never

Iraq is about to open a nuclear reactor as well. Nobody is crying in their milk about that.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Was Jordan in on the attack by Israel against Iraq?
They flew over Jordanian airspace!

Jordan had an air force and they could have alerted Iraq.
Iraq did not blame Jordan afterwords.

At times it is easier for a country to state Mea Culpa and keep on their business in order to stay out of the pissing match

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

I don't don't think it's any kind of brainwashing. You take a poll of American's today if they're going to heaven and if they believe in God, and the vast majority will say yes. You ask them what religion and they'll say Christian the most. That number I fear is declining and as it does, so will the USA's support for Israel.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Saudi Arabia is going to have nuclear plants in 10-20 years.
Israel is going to attack Saudi Arabia? Never

You never know. I think of Saudi Arabia as pretty unstable right now. Their current leaders are pro-western, not for our strong ties to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but rather our lord the greenback. If that ever goes sour or the Kings turn their fancy to Mullah like fanatism, the situation could change drastically. If Israel were faced with a Saudi Threat, which they aren't today at least not by the Saudi GOvernment, all options would be on the table for Israel to survive.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

and?

Israel flies over countries without permission all the time. We'd never physically stop Israel by shooting them down, and it's not our job to defend Iran, so what's your point?

Are you saying that an Israeli strike against Iran would justify an Iranian attack against the U.S.?

I don't think the world will agree...

So Iran could fly over Iraq and bomb Israel and the U.S should not do a damn thing about it.

HAHAHA!

right...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Was Jordan in on the attack by Israel against Iraq?
They flew over Jordanian airspace!

Jordan had an air force and they could have alerted Iraq.
Iraq did not blame Jordan afterwords.

At times it is easier for a country to state Mea Culpa and keep on their business in order to stay out of the pissing match

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

That may be true -- I agree with you -- but, that doesnt take anything away from Israel's right to defend itself from what has become a very overtly hostile nation (Iran).

While I do not support the US' blind support of Israel over the last 30-40 years, I do believe that they have the sovereign right to defend themselves against the wolves that surround them on every side.

The US should stay out of it though... I believe Israel can handle itself without our direct assistance.

The problem is that, because of what you pointed out, too many around the world equate their actions with our own. If they do something, the fingers wont just point at them, they'll also point at the US...

That is why I pray every day that Iran is not working on a nuke... because, if they are, it's a 100% guarantee that there will be a war bigger than anything we've seen since WWII.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

and?

Israel flies over countries without permission all the time. We'd never physically stop Israel by shooting them down, and it's not our job to defend Iran, so what's your point?

Are you saying that an Israeli strike against Iran would justify an Iranian attack against the U.S.?

I don't think the world will agree...

So Iran could fly over Iraq and bomb Israel and the U.S should not do a damn thing about it.

corrected version--So Iran could fly over Iraq and bomb Israel and the U.S will not do a damn thing about it.

 

[The Green Bean]

Death to Israel!

 

[StageLeft]

Iran will not attack Israel, obviously, they'd be signing their own death warrant. I believe now odds of Israel unilaterally hitting Iran are above 50%, but it's not surefire. I think the US will not get involved unless things escalate. If they're kept down to Israel doing some specific strikes, that's where it will stay and the US will do nothing. I am guessing despite the rattling that Iran may exercise restraint in lashing back because an escalation is bad for everyone and way, way bad for Iran. They should take their lumps like Syria did because honestly they have no power now to do anything else. even if they cut their oil off it's only 5% of the world's supply and at the cost of their economy/government status quo. Obviously, they cannot cut shipping in the Straight like they claimed (no navy or air force to speak of).

If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Yes. Iraq says they will not allow it but they have no power and the US will condone it, at the least. No way the US will deny Israeli airforce access to Iraq during a trip to Iran. For the US, Israel is great, it does what the US wants without directly getting involved.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yes. Iraq says they will not allow it but they have no power and the US will condone it, at the least. No way the US will deny Israeli airforce access to Iraq during a trip to Iran. For the US, Israel is great, it does what the US wants without directly getting involved.

Its actually the other way around. Israel has the US fight its wars. One of the big reasons for Iraq was because of Israel. If you recall, after 9/11 we had that creep Netanyahu on every tv station saying "now the US understands how Israel feels and we must stop the terrorists" blah blah blah. This was manipulated into attacking Iraq. Now that Iraq is a mess, the zionists in the Bush administation are beating the war drums with Iran.

What does this get the average US citizen? Nothing. Now we have a bad economy and oil at $150 barrel. When will this stop? Am I going to have to pay $10 per gallon so Israel can feel safe? The billions in aide they get every year isn't enough?

You know what the most peaceful way to neuter the middle east? Be self-dependent and let them rot. Right now, they've won and they will continue to win when we keep attacking them and the oil prices go through the roof.

 

[Lemon law]

There is little doubt that Israel can gets some planes in and attack Iran. What most seem to blissfully be unaware of is that we are no longer talking about the previous Israeli success stories in Iraq or Syria where JUST ONE small pin point surgical bombing raid and its problem solved before the protests can even start.

THAT PREVIOUS MODEL used by Israeli will not work for Iran. Iranian nuclear sites are not only numerous, they are deeply dug in, and there is a good deal of question if Israel can even dent one of them using conventionally power bunker busters massed together in a very large raid that will be anything but limited or surgical. WE would be talking weeks of bombing by the full commitment of Israel's air force to knock out a significant fraction of Iranian nuclear sites.

Of course Israeli could use nukes, but then it would probably get some pegged at it by the Russians. Just two hits would end all the Israeli questions. But failing getting Nuked, if Israel used Nukes against Iran, the UN would certainly move to disband the Israeli State and there would be zero the US could do about it after the firestorm of protests. Meanwhile, palehorse on another thread asserted, nothing would justify Iran retaliating with Chemical weapons. And any nukes would.

So if you think along the same lines I do, then you realize the only hope Israel has is to get Uncle Sammie to do its heavy lifting for it.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I gather most of the posters here think that Iran, with its current "democratic" (as in "everyone can get elected as long as they are approved by the REAL government") and Nuclear weapons will make the world:

1. More stable and/or:
2. More peaceful and/or:
3. More secure

Some people are completely lacking any sense of self-preservation. Amazing.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I gather most of the posters here think that Iran, with its current "democratic" (as in "everyone can get elected as long as they are approved by the REAL government") and Nuclear weapons will make the world:

1. More stable and/or:
2. More peaceful and/or:
3. More secure

Some people are completely lacking any sense of self-preservation. Amazing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel is completely delusional.

But you came to a poor place is you want to gage world wide Israeli support. Israeli support may be fairly descent in the US, but every where else its much much less.

As it is, Israel is skating on thin ice after its rape of Lebanon, you may have gotten away with it with a surgical strike in Syria, but it came at a price of alienating Turkey. You keep building on disputed land and engaging in the politics of pigs. All your immediate neighbors despise you and the USA won't keep propping you up forever.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I gather most of the posters here think that Iran, with its current "democratic" (as in "everyone can get elected as long as they are approved by the REAL government") and Nuclear weapons will make the world:

1. More stable and/or:
2. More peaceful and/or:
3. More secure

Some people are completely lacking any sense of self-preservation. Amazing.

I gather you want to start wars, Piss off China and Russia, Spend billions doing it, kill a lot of people... And for what? They are not threat to us.

Yeah they could hit the green zone in Iraq, but we should have been long gone out of Iraq already so thats are own fault for being vulnerable.

1) Who Cares (how do you know)
2) Where is your crystal ball?
3) Tell any fortunes any time soon?

1) We can't afford it.
2) it's not our problem
3) I'd rather not have more US personal dieing
4) We don't need another war
5) Did I mention we can't afford it? Oh yeah...
6) Oil will go through the roof
7) China will hate us since it will disrupt their oil supply and so will Russia.
8) Do we need to kill any more people?
9) Haven't we killed enough people in Iraq?
10 - It's just plain stupid to start wars....

But you got Rice saying how we will protect Israel if Iran attacks so. It's not hard to see how we gonna get sucked into this.

Meanwhile you got an idiot president bush rubbing his hands with glee thinking about all the oil he is going to control and rip into america once again making us pay for "Another" war. While he and his buddies get rich.

Could it get any more clear?

All bush has to do is tell them the date when to start bombing with our equipment we gave to them. Then just sit back and watch the BS unfold. I am sure bush has already given them a date.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

I wonder why they are jacking the inspectors around, maybe because for each and every inspection to date they have found absolutely nothing? The IAEA has been there and done that and clearly there is no threat.

Nope, that's completely incorrect.

The NYT and the Intl Herald Trib both recently had articles on the IAEA's most recent reports to the UN.

They are seriously concerned, about both what they have found and Iran's lack of co-operation.

Fern

 

[manowar821]

Plenty of people want to, so maybe.

I'm only sure of one thing though, and that's if it does happen, it wont be for legitimate reasons.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel attacks Iran they have to fly over Iraq.
U.S would allow it. U.S would be in on it.

Was Jordan in on the attack by Israel against Iraq?
They flew over Jordanian airspace!

Jordan had an air force and they could have alerted Iraq.
Iraq did not blame Jordan afterwords.

At times it is easier for a country to state Mea Culpa and keep on their business in order to stay out of the pissing match

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

That may be true -- I agree with you -- but, that doesnt take anything away from Israel's right to defend itself from what has become a very overtly hostile nation (Iran).

While I do not support the US' blind support of Israel over the last 30-40 years, I do believe that they have the sovereign right to defend themselves against the wolves that surround them on every side.

The US should stay out of it though... I believe Israel can handle itself without our direct assistance.

The problem is that, because of what you pointed out, too many around the world equate their actions with our own. If they do something, the fingers wont just point at them, they'll also point at the US...

That is why I pray every day that Iran is not working on a nuke... because, if they are, it's a 100% guarantee that there will be a war bigger than anything we've seen since WWII.

Defend itself? From what? Do you think there is a chance in hell a country that is not threatened by any other country would nuke another country that has an equivalent or bigger stash of nuclear ammo?

The Soviets had nukes, remember? Why didn't we go head to head with them? That's because they had every right to have nukes, MAD is the best concept that has ever evolved out of the post WWII era. You don't nuke me I don't nuke you.

Why would Israel be so frantic about the concept of other countries getting Nukes? Why is Israel the only country in the ME that doesn't get questions it's way? Why aren't there UN inquiry teams going in and out of Israel every other day questioning the IDF and IAF about this and that in the most humiliating of ways?

Injustice, is the main fuel for war, those who would like to see the fires of war put out, better start treating everyone according to the same metrics with no bias in place.

 

[tvarad]

DarkThinker:

"Injustice, is the main fuel for war, those who would like to see the fires of war put out, better start treating everyone according to the same metrics with no bias in place."

And what injustice has Israel done to Iran, pray tell, that it's existence would be threatened daily by Ahmedijimbob? Are we to assume that he'll become a pussycat once he gets nukes in his hands?

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: tvarad
DarkThinker:

"Injustice, is the main fuel for war, those who would like to see the fires of war put out, better start treating everyone according to the same metrics with no bias in place."

And what injustice has Israel done to Iran, pray tell, that it's existence would be threatened daily by Ahmedijimbob? Are we to assume that he'll become a pussycat once he gets nukes in his hands?

I have never been a supporter of Iran, matter of fact if you examine any of my previous posts you will discover that I have always been one of the most critical members of Iran (including their Ambassador to AT Aimsterejad ) and their policies in the ME espeically in Lebanon and the crap they started over there with their bed fellows the dictatorship of Syria.

However, when Israel demands that other nations should not have nuclear arms, while they stockpile a big load of them with nobody questioning their intent I get a bit ticked. Israel ought to have it's nuclear arsenal taken away. The middle east is a very volatile area and even "The chosen people of G-d" should not have any nuclear weapons at their disposal.

That is my stance. Either everyone in the ME gets nukes or no one gets them and I prefer the second option. Those who hold monopoly over them (nukes) usually end up abusing their power because they become virtually untouchable military.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to Israel!

are you fucking kidding me?! Wtf has Israel ever done to Pakistan?!

go blow up a schoolbus, or something... you sick fuck.

 

[KIRBYEE]

PNAC = fail. No wonder the Iranians are aggressive with all the PNAC-nutjobs in power.

 

[Genx87]

I dont know odds. But if anything is going to happen. It will be Israel. We dont have the political capital nor will power to do anything. Israel is staring down the barrel of a loaded gun. They are desperate enough to keep Iran from having the means with which to destroy them.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to Israel!

are you fucking kidding me?! Wtf has Israel ever done to Pakistan?!

go blow up a schoolbus, or something... you sick fuck.

The Israeli army is just a terrorist militant organization that has occupied land which my country and I believe to be Palestine. And yes in Pakistan pilots fought in the Youm Kippur war against Israel and I'm sure many would be ready to fight if Israel launches an illegal attack against any of our brotherly state. If I had any power I would've done more to bring the issue of Palestine on the table. Sadly the muslim world still fails to address the real issues because of greed and struggle of power.


So; What has Iran done to you personally? What did the terrorists do?