Iran, Israel and America

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
I'm sure many would be ready to fight if Israel launches an illegal attack against any of our brotherly state.

Pakistan won't do a thing. It has its own things to worry about.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
I'm sure many would be ready to fight if Israel launches an illegal attack against any of our brotherly state.

Pakistan won't do a thing. It has its own things to worry about.

They might not fight them on a state level but they will be helping Iran in every other way they can. Sending aid; refugees; food; technical experts; and may even send pilots.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

...

The Israeli army is just a terrorist militant organization that has occupied land which my country and I believe to be Palestine. And yes in Pakistan pilots fought in the Youm Kippur war against Israel and I'm sure many would be ready to fight if Israel launches an illegal attack against any of our brotherly state. If I had any power I would've done more to bring the issue of Palestine on the table. Sadly the Muslim world still fails to address the real issues because of greed and struggle of power.


So; What has Iran done to you personally? What did the terrorists do?

Of course, what the combined Arab/Muslims did to Israel for 30+ years is completely justified in your eyes.

Israel was been surrounded by hostility for 30 years of people committed to her destruction using overt and covert means and backed/supplied by the Communist block.
And she should just start trusting those that continue to proclaim her destruction without any demonstration of the sincerity.

Ask yourself why this land is occupied before condeming Israel.

 

[ra990]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

QFT

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to Israel!

So you'll be happy to see Israel wiped off the map? Every man, woman and child pushed to the sea?

EDIT: Removed the flame, until I get an answer to this question.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

QFT

You don't get it.

All that money and 'crap' and 'trouble' is nothing compared to the strategic benefit of having an ally in a troubled place like the middle east.

Read Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' and revisit your thoughts on the subject.

Any major war over the next few decades will involve oil. There's quite a bit of it in the mideast. When SHTF, you have a nuclear armed ally right in the middle of the conflict.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: neodyn55

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Ya, but every time, it's fine for Israel to interfere in everyone else's business.
They can fly over other countries without authorization, they can destroy structures suspicious to them in other countries while warning that any retaliations would be meat with a severe reaction , they can siege other countries, they can take on cross continental missions if they need to and that's all fine....because after all, it is Israel. That is what will lead to any major war in the region.

Israel will not remain the only Nuclear Power in the middle east and it doesn't have the right to keep forcing other countries from acquiring the technology they have acquired too. The only way I can support Israel's calls for the prevention of any other country from acquiring nuclear weapons is if they were the first to get rid of that huge stockpile of nuclear warheads that are ready to be launched at any ME capital they need be launched at.

A lot of rich Jews in this country have brainwashed the American people that we must defend Israel and give them billions in welfare every year etc... If you speak against it, you're anti-semetic etc... I don't want to keep on getting involved in this crap. Israel is the equivalent of a friend that keeps on getting into trouble and drags you down with them. They are a poison. I'm American, not Israeli. Don't drag us into your shit.

QFT

You don't get it.

All that money and 'crap' and 'trouble' is nothing compared to the strategic benefit of having an ally in a troubled place like the middle east.

Read Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' and revisit your thoughts on the subject.

Any major war over the next few decades will involve oil. There's quite a bit of it in the mideast. When SHTF, you have a nuclear armed ally right in the middle of the conflict.

Yup. They are a valuable ally and must be safeguarded at all costs.

 

[Lemon law]

In MHO, Israel does nothing to benefit us in the mid east. Not when we lose welcome everywhere else simply because we favor the most hated nation in the mideast.
All the various Arab and Palestinians want is a US neutral policy, when we are perceived as having a very pro Israeli policy, we immediately become the enemy to everyone else
in the region.

As for the wiped off the map stuff, it means wiping off the map only the gains made in the 1967 war, not wiping out the State of Israel per 1948 borders.

But my prediction is as follow, if Israel does not get real and negotiate, long term, the State of Israel will not exist long term. If Israel wants all they will end up with none.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: neodyn55

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to Israel!

So you'll be happy to see Israel wiped off the map? Every man, woman and child pushed to the sea?

EDIT: Removed the flame, until I get an answer to this question.

No. But I'd like to see the regime replaced by a non-zionist and one which accepts Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and nothing else.

And this is very unlike Green Bean but I wish to apologize if I've offended anyone. I don't regret anything I've said but tensions and emotions run high on these boards and I've just had a very frustrating day. It's awesome to have something like this to vent all my anger.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: neodyn55

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to Israel!

So you'll be happy to see Israel wiped off the map? Every man, woman and child pushed to the sea?

EDIT: Removed the flame, until I get an answer to this question.

No. But I'd like to see the regime replaced by a non-zionist and one which accepts Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and nothing else.

And this is very unlike Green Bean but I wish to apologize if I've offended anyone. I don't regret anything I've said but tensions and emotions run high on these boards and I've just had a very frustrating day. It's awesome to have something like this to vent all my anger.

Thanks for the clarification. I know what you mean about the tensions part, and I'm glad I removed that flame.

I'd like to see peace there as well, and I'm leaning to a Uri Avnery style two state solution.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
And yes in Pakistan pilots fought in the Youm Kippur war against Israel and I'm sure many would be ready to fight if Israel launches an illegal attack against any of our brotherly state.

How'd that work out for them the first time?

If I had any power I would've done more to bring the issue of Palestine on the table. Sadly the muslim world still fails to address the real issues because of greed and struggle of power.

"The Muslim World" needs to realize that there's no such thing as "The Muslim World."

Until that happens, your countries will remain a millennium behind the rest of the real world.

So; What has Iran done to you personally? What did the terrorists do?

They've used their agents to orchestrate countless attacks that have wounded or killed many of my fellow Americans in Iraq.

And that's just for starters...

Then again, I don't wish for war against Iran.

The Israeli army is just a terrorist militant organization that has occupied land which my country and I believe to be Palestine.

OK, I should have know... let's try this again... I'll even go slower this time.

what... has... Israel... ever... done... to... Pakistan?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In MHO, Israel does nothing to benefit us in the mid east. Not when we lose welcome everywhere else simply because we favor the most hated nation in the mideast.
All the various Arab and Palestinians want is a US neutral policy, when we are perceived as having a very pro Israeli policy, we immediately become the enemy to everyone else
in the region.

As for the wiped off the map stuff, it means wiping off the map only the gains made in the 1967 war, not wiping out the State of Israel per 1948 borders.

you're right.. that's exactly what TGB means when he shouts "Death to Israel!"

After all, he's your ATP&N token voice on the Muslim street, right?



wow...

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me palehorse, TGB is TGB, You would have to ask him exactly what he means, and he is nobody's voice and speaks for himself.

 

[First]

Chance of war is absolute zero unless Israel does something massively stupid like attack Iran openly and directly with military force (vs. covert bombings of some sort). In either case, we know Iran won't attack because that would be suicide for them, but at the same time I'm not sure what Israel will do. They have far more reason to fear Iran than us, due to both their proximity and the ME (Iran included) hatred for anything non-Muslim.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse
How'd that work out for them the first time?

During the war 16 PAF pilots volunteered to go to the Middle East in order to support Egypt and Syria but by the time they arrived, Egypt had already been pushed into a ceasefire. Syria remained in a state of war against Israel. Eight (8) PAF pilots started flying out of Syrian Airbases; they formed the A-flight of 67 Squadron at Dumayr Airbase. The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian Mig-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians. Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat[8][9]. He was honored by the Syrian government[10]. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war. The Pakistani pilots stayed on in Syria until 1976, training Syrian pilots in the art of air warfare.

"The Muslim World" needs to realize that there's no such thing as "The Muslim World."

Actually the west needs to realize there is.

Until that happens, your countries will remain a millennium behind the rest of the real world.

They've used their agents to orchestrate countless attacks that have wounded or killed many of my fellow Americans in Iraq.

And that's just for starters...

What about the Iraninan civilians America has killed since the revolution? What about the civilian airliner that they sot down.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What about the Iranian civilians America has killed since the revolution? What about the civilian airliner that they sot down.

Is that all you have?! :roll: ridiculous...

Iranians are directly involved in attacks against my fellow soldiers in Iraq every day.

As in, right now.

And, you never answered my other question... wtf has Israel ever done to Pakistan itself?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In MHO, Israel does nothing to benefit us in the mid east. Not when we lose welcome everywhere else simply because we favor the most hated nation in the mideast.
All the various Arab and Palestinians want is a US neutral policy, when we are perceived as having a very pro Israeli policy, we immediately become the enemy to everyone else
in the region.

As for the wiped off the map stuff, it means wiping off the map only the gains made in the 1967 war, not wiping out the State of Israel per 1948 borders.

But my prediction is as follow, if Israel does not get real and negotiate, long term, the State of Israel will not exist long term. If Israel wants all they will end up with none.

When it comes to Israel your total 100% bias against all things Israeli is hard to hide among all your convoluted words.

Your lack of true understanding never ceases to amaze me!

 

[Red Dawn]

I prefer Israel over a shithole like Pakisland and even the radical Iran but I wouldn't lift a hand to help any of them attack the others, in fact, say Israel tried to attack Iran, if their jets entered Iraqi Air Space I think we should tell them to leave immediately and if they refuse shoot them down.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In MHO, Israel does nothing to benefit us in the mid east. Not when we lose welcome everywhere else simply because we favor the most hated nation in the mideast.

Most hated nation BY the mid-east, not IN the mid-east. And for what?

It's not a throcracy. Israel has the nerve to run a western style democratically elected government where religious dictates are not enforced at the point of a sword. You want to eat bacon in Tel Aviv? Go ahead and get it extra crispy. If you are a woman and want to drive a car? Sure, how about a humvee in the army while you are at it? What if you are an unmarried woman and just want to go for a walk? No need to bring along a male relative or be presumed a prostitute. Criminals actually get a trial. There are actually non-jewish citizens who can visit anywhere in the country. Give that a shot in Saudi Arabia.

Does Israel have some controversial policies especially with regard to palestinians? Sure. Just like the US has a disgraceful black mark over in Guantanamo. It still doesn't make the US as criminal a regime as Myanmar.

Calling Israel the most hated country by theocratic nations with no women's rights who rule by religious fiat is a mark of honor, not shame.

To claim that the strategic importance that Israel affords us in the ME is of no benefit, well I don't think short-sighted is strong enough a term.