Iran may start a war with Israel

[EagleKeeper]

Does Egypt want Gaza back. Have they expressed and desire?

The same goes for Jordan. Did they ever ask for the West Bank back from Israel.
After Black september, do you think that they would want it?

Why would Israel worry back in '48 about the Palestinian refugees when they were caused by the Arab armies attacking and being supported by the Palestinian Arabs.

The Arabs and Palestinians created their problem; yet you expect Israel to fix it. What about the responsibility of the Arab nations that triggered this mess over and over again.

Some couintry has to control the lands - even if no one wants it. If the Arabs wanted the lands to be used in a given way; then why did they turn them over to Israel?

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Totally wrong Common Courtesy on all your five statements you made. If you read my above post, it explains exactly why you are wrong five out of five times. But gotta say, you are on a roll here, Mr Consistency, and when you make wrong assumptions, its again explains why garbage in gets nothing but garbage out on your part.

But another factoid to point, Arab Charities have not washed their hands of the Palestinians, Saudi Arabia all by itself funds 50% of the food aid Israel blocks in Gaza.
Iran another 12%, and Israel contributes little or nothing.

And in the speculation department, it may be why, as the Gaza blockage spotlights the problem, it becomes well past time to end Israeli administration of the West Bank and Gaza, and get some other entity in control. While some final just mid-east peace solution is finalized. If nothing else, the international community mistakenly trusted Israel to administer Lebanon after its civil war, and Israel got about a F- in doing that. Israel could have made a friend out of Lebanon and instead its hated far more than it was before.

You claim all five statements are wrong.

Below, I have numbered them.
Please identify where items #1,2 & 5 are factually wrong.
Item #3 requires military thinking, not humitarian sobs - I do not belive that you are capable of such.
Iem #4 requires understanding that the Arabs attacked and continue to attack Israel to this day - the turn the other cheek is not applicable to one that wants you destroyed

1. Does Egypt want Gaza back. Have they expressed and desire?
   As stated above by another member, they were offered Gaza back in a brokered US conference and they declined.
   Rebuttal:?
   
   
2. The same goes for Jordan. Did they ever ask for the West Bank back from Israel?
   Rebuttal:?
   After Black September, do you think that they would want it?
   Rebuttal:?
   
   
3. Why would Israel worry back in '48 about the Palestinian refugees when they were caused by the Arab armies attacking and being supported by the Palestinian Arabs.
   Rebuttal:?
   
   
4. The Arabs and Palestinians created their problem; yet you expect Israel to fix it. What about the responsibility of the Arab nations that triggered this mess over and over again.
   Rebuttal:?
   
   
5. Some country has to control the lands - even if no one wants it. If the Arabs wanted the lands to be used in a given way; then why did they turn them over to Israel?
   They have not asked for them back. The Palestinians only started to be concerned when they had no Arab protection. Where did the Palestinians asked for their won country prior to Israel controlling those lands?
   Rebuttal:?
   

 

[Lemon law]

You claim all five statements are wrong.

Below, I have numbered them.
Please identify where items #1,2 & 5 are factually wrong.
Item #3 requires military thinking, not humitarian sobs - I do not belive that you are capable of such.
Iem #4 requires understanding that the Arabs attacked and continue to attack Israel to this day - the turn the other cheek is not applicable to one that wants you destroyed

1. NOTE MY REBUTTALS IN PARENTHESIS
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   [1]Does Egypt want Gaza back. Have they expressed and desire?
   As stated above by another member, they were offered Gaza back in a brokered US conference and they declined.
   Rebuttal:?
   ( As I referenced in an earlier post, Gaza became damaged goods for Egypt
   when the Palestinians were chased out of Israel. the land of their birth, and took what they thought would be temporary refuge on Gaza. On one hand by Arab custom, Egypt could not deny the Palestinians refuge, and on the other hand Egypt did not want to take
   in a pile of suddenly made penny less by Israel Palestinian refugees. The Egyptian position was and still remains, the Palestinians came from within the 1948 borders of the State of Israel and the Palestinians people and their plight are an ISRAELI RESPONSIBLY. And after the 1948 war of Israeli against Arabs, when both Jewish and Palestinians civilians fled for their lives and left their homes rather than be trampled by various invading armies and be in the middle of a conflict zone, and when the dust finally settled and the better organized Israeli Jews won as the Arab armies went home. Then both the Palestinian and the Israeli Jewish civilian both returned to their property, the Jewish Civilians were welcomed home with open arms, and the Palestinian was denied reentry to the land of their birth as the Israeli state confiscated their property. And that has created the so called right to return the Palestinian people will never surrender. And as the Palestinians were pushed back into the Gaza strip again, Israel was on the wrong road to land theft, and we can only wonder what would have happened if Israeli would have instead granted equal rights to the Palestinians and Jewish citizens of the former British mandate in 1949. But by the time of the Carter negotiations, Egypt washed its hands of Gaza by ceding any control it had, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, when EGYPT CEDED its control of GAZA, it did NOT GIVE IT TO ISRAEL
   
   
   [2]The same goes for Jordan. Did they ever ask for the West Bank back from Israel?
   Rebuttal:?
   After Black September, do you think that they would want it?
   Rebuttal:?
   ( To save time, and needless duplication, The Jordanian position on the West Bank is almost identical to the Egyptian position on Gaza. They too don't want to have to assimilate the Palestinians, when its a 100% Israeli RESPONSIBILITY. )
   
   
   [3]Why would Israel worry back in '48 about the Palestinian refugees when they were caused by the Arab armies attacking and being supported by the Palestinian Arabs.
   Rebuttal:?
   
   ( Because very very few Palestinians actively joined Arab armies, but Israel collectively punished all Palestinians. And that Israeli position is bigotry, religious discrimination, against the UN doctrine, simple out and out theft, a total outrage to justice, and I am sure I you and I can think of a few more stinking names to call it, but why bother with overkill. But if you Common Courtesy wants me to add in Israeli military thinking, I will do so by pointing out, while the rascals were the Arab States with standing armies and not the Palestinians, The Israeli military was not strong enough at the time to anything but barely chase the Arab armies away, But the Israeli army was more than strong enough to enforce the theft of Palestinian land because with the the Palestinians who were innocent, it was like taking candy from defenseless babies. Not exactly something that should be a point of pride for the IDF.
   
   
   [4]The Arabs and Palestinians created their problem; yet you expect Israel to fix it. What about the responsibility of the Arab nations that triggered this mess over and over again.
   Rebuttal:?
   ( The Arab armies from surrounding States created the problem by unfairly attacking the State of Israel, the Palestinians quite rationally fled the fighting along with their Jewish neighbors. But there you go again Common Courtesy, trying to limp the Arabs and Palestinians together when they are two distinct different groups. But Israel partly fixed it when they chased the Arab armies away in 1948, and then they were at a fork in the road. They could have taken the high road by granting equals rights to ALL its citizens from the former British mandate, and instead they took the low road of land theft, bigotry, and apartheid and will never know peace until that 1948 mistake is corrected by Israel. )
   
   
   [5]Some country has to control the lands - even if no one wants it. If the Arabs wanted the lands to be used in a given way; then why did they turn them over to Israel?
   They have not asked for them back. The Palestinians only started to be concerned when they had no Arab protection. Where did the Palestinians asked for their won country prior to Israel controlling those lands?
   Rebuttal:?
   
   ( Again, Common Courtesy, you distort, NO ONE, NO ONE owns the disputed lands of the West Bank, Gaza, and all the land captured in the 1967&73 wars, until the international community through the UN officially ratify it by treaty. Which explains the lone exception of the Sinai desert which Egypt now has back. But somehow Israel is allowed to TEMPORARILY administer these disputed lands for lack of a suitable substitute pending a final settlement. As we have seen in the past, the international community can change the administering nation or entity, and in fact has done it three times in Lebanon, The first lucky smuck to administer the wreck of Lebanon was Uncle Sammy, but after the bombing of the marine barracks, when Reagan then pulled out. Israel volunteered and made a total botch of it, and was forced to get out, then Syria took over, did a better job of it than Israel, IMHO, and then Syria tried to assume control, and under international pressure, had to pull out. And now finally Lebanon, though still somewhat of a fragile basket case, administers it own government. And now if nothing else, as a off shoot of Gaza blockade and a general total lack of progress on any Just mid-east progress, think its time to get Israel out of that administrative role, and replace it with some other entity. If nothing else, Israel has proved it cannot fairly administer the disputed areas, and that is why the UN needs to replace Israel. As an earlier poster noted the Arab League has a very workable peace proposal and maybe the Arab league could temporarily replace Israel as the entity the administers the disputed lands, under strict UN authority of course. )
   
   Sorry for not responding earlier, Common Courtesy, but I was sleeping )

 

[Moonbeam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Bean
On paper, Iran's Navy is quite strong. Any war will not go beyond a naval exchange. If it does, the entire region will turn into a warzone.

Personally, I hope Iran is successful in wiping Israel of the map once and for all.

What has Israel ever done to Pakistan, or you directly, to invoke such hatred?


He is a perfect example of the problems for Muslims and their religion that the world has to face



It is the fact that he seems to have been brainwashed by his religion to hate the Jews.
He seems to be an educated person.

The Jews have done nothing to him.
Israel has done nothing to him or his country.

What chance is there of peace in the ME if educated people with his attitude control governments and policy?
Then you have the uneducated in the streets that will throw themselves into the fray as unfeeling cannon fodder.

I'm sorry, but I find this so called incomprehension of Green Bean's sympathy for Palestinians rather disingenuous. Don't you,palehorse, or you, Common Courtesy, notice you're posting in support of the Israeli side. What reasons do you have that you support Israel that are different in objectivity to any reason Green Bean might give. I think if you have any attachment to one side or the other you are as guilty of partisanship as any other. I don't think anything could be more obvious than that Green Bean supports the Palestinians because he is a Muslim and you two support Israel because that's the common identification of Americans. As with any persons of partisan bias, you unconsciously assume that you are right and never even think to examine your motivations, and assume thereby, that the other person is just naturally wrong. You see his bias but never see your own. But, of course, because I know this, I, myself, am never surprised by the bias of others and their blind attachment to causes, one side or the other.

 

[palehorse]

I'm sorry, but I find this so called incomprehension of Green Bean's sympathy for Palestinians rather disingenuous. Don't you,palehorse, or you, Common Courtesy, notice you're posting in support of the Israeli side. What reasons do you have that you support Israel that are different in objectivity to any reason Green Bean might give. I think if you have any attachment to one side or the other you are as guilty of partisanship as any other. I don't think anything could be more obvious than that Green Bean supports the Palestinians because he is a Muslim and you two support Israel because that's the common identification of Americans. As with any persons of partisan bias, you unconsciously assume that you are right and never even think to examine your motivations, and assume thereby, that the other person is just naturally wrong. You see his bias but never see your own. But, of course, because I know this, I, myself, am never surprised by the bias of others and their blind attachment to causes, one side or the other.

You assume so damn much.

I have my reasons. For starters, I once lived in Israel... but, I am neither Christian, nor Jew, so my reasons for supporting them go well beyond such petty attributes as religious bonds or preference.

My question stands: What has Israel ever done to TGB, or perhaps Pakistan itself, that would cause TGB to call for its annihilation?

 

[Moonbeam]

You assume so damn much.

I have my reasons. For starters, I once lived in Israel... but, I am neither Christian, nor Jew, so my reasons for supporting them go well beyond such petty attributes as religious bonds or preference.

My question stands: What has Israel ever done to TGB, or perhaps Pakistan itself, that would cause TGB to call for its annihilation?

I gave only proximate reasons for identification in set examples. I didn't assume I covered your case. Your reasons are different, you lack of self-understanding the same. You have identified and identification is an illusion. We are all the same, all certain of our own truth and that the truth of others spells their damnation, by us, preferably, eh? Identification is killing the human race. Identification is of the ego, the need to be a part of a team that isn't worthless like you feel about who you really are, a nobody without a name, a pure state of awareness with everything. You sleep and are at war in Paradise and you want to argue with me. I am not here. I went away a long time ago. I am a raindrop that fell in the sea. I am the force with which you punch. The harder you swing the more powerful I become. Your ego contests with nothing.

 

[Noobtastic]

( To save time, and needless duplication, The Jordanian position on the West Bank is almost identical to the Egyptian position on Gaza. They too don't want to have to assimilate the Palestinians, when its a 100% Israeli RESPONSIBILITY. )

What's Israel's responsibility?

Israel had no influence over Gaza/WB/Jerusalem until 1967. It was the Arab's responsibility. They invaded Israel, in which Arabs were displaced, and instead of absorbing the Arabs seeking refuge, they built shitty camps and kept them dispossed.

Israel had no control over this, and quite frankly it didn't care.

Jordan annexed the WB and granted everyone citizenship, yet the still remained in the WB.

Palestinians born in Gaza received special permits, but could not apply for citizenship from Egypt.

Palestinians were regulated to apartheid status in Lebanon.

In Israel, Palestinians gained full-rights, though up until the 1960s they were concerned "hostile" and some arab towns had curfews.

Cliffnotes:

*Israel is not "100% responsible" for the displacement of Palestinians
*Israel is 0% responsible for keeping the Palestinians dispossed. Israel tried many times to broker agreements that would conclude the refugee crisis, because Israel had to deal with the many more Jewish refugees living in their country (worse camps than the Palestinians lived in).
*Arabs accepted responsibility over the Palestinians.

The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don’t give a damn whether the refugees live or die.

-Ralph Galloway, former director of the UNRWA (Palestinian aid).

Your claims that Israel is 100% responsible for the refugee crisis is false, and Israel has no legal responsibility over the Palestinians in allowing them to "return." Israel agreed to return a limited number in 1948 and 1967, but it's pointless now since 90% of "palestinian refugees" are simply descedents of those displaced.

You can't sue because your great grandfather was displaced. Nearly 13 million ethnic germans were expelled by the allies in post-WWII, a great majority of europe's eastern europe population are decedents of those expelled.

They can't very well sue modern germany, britain, russia, or USA because of their complicity in this.