Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Discussion

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: conjur
Sleep deprivation
Broomsticks up the ass
Threats of electrocution
Beatings
Mental abuse

Let's keep your personal life out of this discussion...

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, I've never posted a "lol" reply before, but that was sublime.

Torture of towel heads is Teh Funnay!

MOTION TO BAN FOR THIS STATEMENT

Moron :|

 

[chrisms]

Victims of the abuse have said they would rather be killed or tortured Saddam-style rather than go through what they did. Maybe trying to get attention, but what those soldiers did WAS torture and deserves the attention it is getting.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

I just wish there was this much outrage when an American soldier was stripped down and they were dragging him through the streets on CNN; I wish there was this much outrage when Saddam?s forces captured Americans during Gulf War I and showed them on TV with black eyes and battered faces?wish there was this much outrage when Saddam personally went down a row of Iraqi prisoners and shot each one in the head until he got bored?where was the so-called Human Rights Watch Organization then? Where was your public display of outrage? Go back to hating America and everything we do--then pull your f*cking baggy pants up.

?OMG, he was standing on a box with fake cables in his hand, a bag on his head, and his slick willy showing?.Bush owes the world an apology.?

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I just wish there was this much outrage when an American soldier was stripped down and they were dragging him through the streets on CNN; I wish there was this much outrage when Saddam?s forces captured Americans during Gulf War I and showed them on TV with black eyes and battered faces?wish there was this much outrage when Saddam personally went down a row of Iraqi prisoners and shot each one in the head until he got bored?where was the so-called Human Rights Watch Organization then? Where was your public display of outrage? Go back to hating America and everything we do--then pull your f*cking baggy pants up.

?OMG, he was standing on a box with fake cables in his hand, a bag on his head, and his slick willy showing?.Bush owes the world an apology.?

Preach on!

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Come on now! These Iraqis were photographed having simulated sex, wearing lingerie, etc. That is NOT torture! Were they electrocuted through the testicles? No. Were they deprived of food and water? No. Were their fingers or other limbs cut off? No.

You didn't read the army report did you? Do beatings, rape, sodomy count as torture to you?

Yes, the latter do. No, I didn't read it. I'm going off the pictures I have seen or heard discussed on the news. I've only heard of what I said: forced simulated sex acts, urination, humiliation, wearing women's underwear, etc.

Ah...so...you spouted off in ignorance.

Gotcha.

Well, maybe the media needs to get off of the sexual sensationalism and report everything...

Another example of the media not reporting everything.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/04/iraq.abuse/index.html

Threatening with a 9 mm pistol.

Humiliation, not torture

Pouring cold water on naked detainees.

Okay, this might be torture

Threatening males with rape.

Humiliation, not torture

Beating with a broom handle and a chair.

Okay, this might be torture

Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

Okay, this might be torture

Threatening with military dogs.

Humiliation, not torture

Attaching wires to extremities, including the penis.

Okay, this might be torture

Accusing prisoners of being homosexual.

Humiliation, not torture

Forcing detainees into compromising positions while naked.

Humiliation, not torture

At least 2 investigations

damn, they did all that and never forced them to watch an episode of American Idol. Now that's torture

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I just wish there was this much outrage when an American soldier was stripped down and they were dragging him through the streets on CNN; I wish there was this much outrage when Saddam?s forces captured Americans during Gulf War I and showed them on TV with black eyes and battered faces?wish there was this much outrage when Saddam personally went down a row of Iraqi prisoners and shot each one in the head until he got bored?where was the so-called Human Rights Watch Organization then? Where was your public display of outrage? Go back to hating America and everything we do--then pull your f*cking baggy pants up.

?OMG, he was standing on a box with fake cables in his hand, a bag on his head, and his slick willy showing?.Bush owes the world an apology.?

Because we know better. We hold ourselves to higher standards and so does the rest of the world. When we stoop to such abusive tactics, it looks many times worse on us.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

Why weren't pictures of this guy beating a fellow prisoner also release?

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

Why weren't pictures of this guy beating a fellow prisoner also release?

wtf? you People are Hypocritical MORAL midgets. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. It hinders the INDEPENDENT Thought process within your Brain.

I think a bunch of You are just pre-programmed Spyware-esque BOTS, Automatically replying everycouple seconds to every thread.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Oh, and please cut and paste your posts showing your outrage when they cut the E-4's limbs off last month and played around with the charred bodies in the streets. All I remember is you peacenik tree-huggers were blaming Bush, which is par for the course...we went from the Greatest generation to the saddest generation in just a few short decades.

Is what the soldiers did wrong? Of course their actions were wrong. Should they be punished? Sure, and I would vote for 10 years in Kansas for their crimes. Should the officers be relived if it is discovered that they knew these actions were going on? Absolutely they should. This is Janet Jackson all over again....

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

Why weren't pictures of this guy beating a fellow prisoner also release?

wtf? you People are Hypocritical MORAL midgets. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. It hinders the INDEPENDENT Thought process within your Brain.

I think a bunch of You are just pre-programmed Spyware-esque BOTS, Automatically replying everycouple seconds to every thread.

I'm asking for equality and fairness in journalism. Why are you getting in such a huff?

By the way, if I'm ever a POW and the worst they do to me is pour cold water on me, I'll consdier myself lucky. Two or three of these events are truly attrocious, but the rest sound like mild reprimands to keep these guys from misbehaving. What do they do to you in an American prison when they find you beating a fellow prisoner? They beat your ass to a pulp with batons and point shotguns at you and threaten you with dogs.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: conjur

Because we know better. We hold ourselves to higher standards and so does the rest of the world. When we stoop to such abusive tactics, it looks many times worse on us.

I concur, Conjur, and rightfully so...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I just wish there was this much outrage when an American soldier was stripped down and they were dragging him through the streets on CNN; I wish there was this much outrage when Saddam?s forces captured Americans during Gulf War I and showed them on TV with black eyes and battered faces?wish there was this much outrage when Saddam personally went down a row of Iraqi prisoners and shot each one in the head until he got bored?where was the so-called Human Rights Watch Organization then? Where was your public display of outrage? Go back to hating America and everything we do--then pull your f*cking baggy pants up.

?OMG, he was standing on a box with fake cables in his hand, a bag on his head, and his slick willy showing?.Bush owes the world an apology.?

We went over and got revenge for the first Gulf war.

You know I support soldiers. Hell I have good reason to. The problem with your argument is that it fails to take into acount we are supposed to NOT be like Saddams forces. We should NOT be doing what is done elsewhere in the world. Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah, Idi Amin. All these never represented the US as a nation, although we brought some of them to power. That is another issue. This one is about those in uniform (and some without) who represent *US* in the world. I don't want OUR people acting like those we swear must die because the do the kinds of things we find us doing now.

Like in VN, the enemy did a hell of a lot of terrible things. If we did them, I would not be saying. "Well they did it too!"
That didnt work as an excuse for third graders who beat up other kids because they saw others do it, and it doesnt work for our servicemen either.

We need to weed these guys out, and severely, and heap all manner of crap on their heads for this. You can screw up things royally when a minority fscks up this badly.

You want to talk about how bad others are? No argument. We expect this from them, not from our guys.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Oh, and please cut and paste your posts showing your outrage when they cut the E-4's limbs off last month and played around with the charred bodies in the streets. All I remember is you peacenik tree-huggers were blaming Bush, which is par for the course...we went from the Greatest generation to the saddest generation in just a few short decades.

Is what the soldiers did wrong? Of course their actions were wrong. Should they be punished? Sure, and I would vote for 10 years in Kansas for their crimes. Should the officers be relived if it is discovered that they knew these actions were going on? Absolutely they should. This is Janet Jackson all over again....

See my previous reply to you.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

Why weren't pictures of this guy beating a fellow prisoner also release?

wtf? you People are Hypocritical MORAL midgets. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. It hinders the INDEPENDENT Thought process within your Brain.

I think a bunch of You are just pre-programmed Spyware-esque BOTS, Automatically replying everycouple seconds to every thread.

Is that the buzzword of the month from the DNC talking points? "Kool-Aid?" You and Conjur sure like to use it in nearly every post. Also, how many times have we told you the rules beHinD tHe UsaGe oF CapITaliZaTIon? iT'S unbEcoMing of SomEOne wIth thE sUperiOr inteLLectually yOu poSsesS, or at least purport to possess.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

Why weren't pictures of this guy beating a fellow prisoner also release?

wtf? you People are Hypocritical MORAL midgets. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. It hinders the INDEPENDENT Thought process within your Brain.

I think a bunch of You are just pre-programmed Spyware-esque BOTS, Automatically replying everycouple seconds to every thread.

I'm asking for equality and fairness in journalism. Why are you getting in such a huff?

By the way, if I'm ever a POW and the worst they do to me is pour cold water on me, I'll consdier myself lucky. Two or three of these events are truly attrocious, but the rest sound like mild reprimands to keep these guys from misbehaving. What do they do to you in an American prison when they find you beating a fellow prisoner? They beat your ass to a pulp with batons and point shotguns at you and threaten you with dogs.

ill agree that its Certain Actions that are Truely awful, Im just fed up with people Tring to Defend these actions in Any Way.

 

[kage69]

Victims of the abuse have said they would rather be killed or tortured Saddam-style rather than go through what they did.

..and I don't buy it. These acts were reprehensible, no question, but saying they were worse than what Sadaam's people did is equal parts stupidity and resentment towards their captors (not that the latter isn't justified).

That prison is practically DisneyLand compared to what it was when the Ba'athists were running things.

They were threatened with a 9mm - under Sadaam prisoners were executed on a regular basis.

Threatened with dogs - under Sadaam they were thrown into a dog pit to be torn apart (reportedly Uday's favorite).

Chemical light/broom stick sodomy - under Sadaam and electrified metal rod was the implement of choice.

Threatened with rape - Sadaam had a 'professional' rapist on the payroll, I doubt it stopped there.

Cold water shock - vat of nitric acid anyone?




I feel horrible that these prisoners had to go through that stuff, as well as insulted and ashamed we have idiots on the ground doing this in our name - but these prisoners are full of sh!t if they say Sadaam's treatment was preferable. Period.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: kage69

Victims of the abuse have said they would rather be killed or tortured Saddam-style rather than go through what they did.

..and I don't buy it. These acts were reprehensible, no question, but saying they were worse than what Sadaam's people did is equal parts stupidity and resentment towards their captors (not that the latter isn't justified).

That prison is practically DisneyLand compared to what it was when the Ba'athists were running things.

They were threatened with a 9mm - under Sadaam prisoners were executed on a regular basis.

Threatened with dogs - under Sadaam they were thrown into a dog pit to be torn apart (reportedly Uday's favorite).

Chemical light/broom stick sodomy - under Sadaam and electrified metal rod was the implement of choice.

Threatened with rape - Sadaam had a 'professional' rapist on the payroll, I doubt it stopped there.

Cold water shock - vat of nitric acid anyone?




I feel horrible that these prisoners had to go through that stuff, as well as insulted and ashamed we have idiots on the ground doing this in our name - but these prisoners are full of sh!t if they say Sadaam's treatment was preferable. Period.

Cliff notes...
Saddam was bad, so if we do bad things too it's no big deal.

BTW, which of these prisoners have other torture to compare it to?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: conjur
Sleep deprivation
Broomsticks up the ass
Threats of electrocution
Beatings
Mental abuse

Let's keep your personal life out of this discussion...

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, I've never posted a "lol" reply before, but that was sublime.

Torture of towel heads is Teh Funnay!

MOTION TO BAN FOR THIS STATEMENT

Moron :|

This forum is a bit more complex in its interaction than OT. Well, much more so. You would best serve yourself by reading the posts of people and see where they stand on issues before you reply to any particular snippet. Things tend to be rougher here to be sure, and the matters addressed of greater significance than the YAGT threads. I frequent both forums, and reply appropriately in each as they are different animals, so to speak.

Just a friendly FYI, because I won't rip into you for this, but others might and that leads into the inevitable flame fest. That happens anyway, but at least there are some points between some flames. Again, this is not OT.

Relax, and have a

:beer:

 

[kage69]

Cliff notes...Saddam was bad, so if we do bad things too it's no big deal

Please indicate where I so much as implied that bad things we do are no big deal. Winston notes more like it...

BTW, which of these prisoners have other torture to compare it to?

I just thought of that after I submitted that post too. My guess is few, if any. Anyone know for sure?

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Czar
Humiliation is a methood of mental torture

Yep! One method even 8-year-old boys on the school playground have to put up with daily!

Geez, we are getting so weak!

Ahh, yes, the results of a decade of 'feel-good' policies...they even make those "f@gs" wear helmets when riding their bikes nowadays...make a paper gun and get suspended from school...what we are witnessing is clearly the result of feel-good policy.

 

[Stunt]

well this just goes to show you that american have learned nothing from september 11th...there are reasons why ppl in the international community do not like you guys, and this does not help your case. To people in the middle east, it looks like you guys are just as bad as the leaders you are trying to replace. They think that all the ppl the US are interogating are being treated like this, it is no wonder u are getting ur asses killed over there. If i thought my family member was being treated so poorly, i'd fight you guys off. If you guys want to be a model civilization for others to follow you have to understand what is right and wrong and smarten up. This was disgusting to see and anyone who doesn't thinkso, needs a morality check and deserves the reprecussions of future terrorist attacks. You bring it on yourselves, and the sad thing is that it really isnt your fault but your leaders, oddly enough, you support them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: kage69

Cliff notes...Saddam was bad, so if we do bad things too it's no big deal

Please indicate where I so much as implied that bad things we do are no big deal. Winston notes more like it...

BTW, which of these prisoners have other torture to compare it to?

I just thought of that after I submitted that post too. My guess is few, if any. Anyone know for sure?

The problem is the need to have to compare the abuse, and then qualify it with "they are full of sh!t" etc. In fact, I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of your regret for these actions. You attempted to mitigate them though by trying to one up them with Saddam's treatment.

In effect what you said is much like "Well, he's a nice guy BUT". For purposes of understanding what follows in that statement, disregard everything before "but". Kicking someone four times may indeed be preferable to kicking the five, but does saying that being kicked one less time is a real improvement? I think not.

No this is an ugly event which needs no mitigation. It needs to be used as a reminder that good people can do bad things, and it is the responsibility of the institutions in charge to correct things in order to prevent what is otherwise an inevitably recurring problem. We cannot afford to take the attitude of "This is an isolated case" yet again.


Edited

 

[tallest1]

You bush-apologists have gone to a new low, seriously. By what you're saying, we could poison an entire city with chemical weapons and then argue that Sadaam would have done worse. THAT IS PLAIN SICK! :|

This is NOT a game of revenge. The US is NEVER EVER supposed to do barbaric acts such as the ones reported and while yes, the Iraqis certainly have shown their share of insanity, it NEVER EVER justifies what we have done. And now you want to downplay this whole thing by saying "But nooooo its not 'torture'"? BULLSHIT! How many times are you people going to quit pulling out the dictionaries? You've already come crying to us over the meaning of words like , 'deficit', 'job recovery', 'lie' and 'WMD' to fit your agenda AND I REFUSE TO ADD "TORTURE" TO YOUR LIST OF REDEFINITIONS. Your viewpoint is plain sick and yes, unamerican. I'm ashamed you even marginally endorse such actions. :|

 

[Stunt]

all this does is instigate more american deaths in iraq and the rejection of american occupation. So....to summarize what has happened in iraq... US kills troops, wastes money, weapons and resources to capture saddam. The result in iraq is a civil war between 3 major races and a dictator no better than saddam. Ask yourself, was it worth it?

 

[JupiterJones]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Humiliated, YES.

Tortured, NO.

Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd much rather be urinated on than have my fingers cut off.

This issue has been blown WAY out of proportion. Sure, all of this is conduct unbecoming of a United States armed service man, but if you want to talk about REAL humiliation, let's talk about those soldiers and contract workers who were killed and dragged through the streets of Falujah. Now that was humiliation!

I'm sick and tired off all these liberal whiners, crying over this spilt milk. Thanks to the liberals, this country is turning into a bunch of PC pu$$ies. It's time we woke up and grew a pair!

I would encourage the Bush Administration to simply take the gloves off. This is war, they started it, and we should simply finish the job, no matter if that means eliminating the minority, radical extremist terrorists!

You should join up. Maybe you'll get over there in time to join the fun.

Jup