Iraqis take over Abu Ghraib

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Well, good thing Americans have handed over Abu G. We were mistreating the prisoners. The world screamed scandal. Liberals screamed human rights.
Wonder if they will say anything now, or if it was all done as America bashing.

Well, the good news is now prisoners dont have to worry about wearing underwear on their head. Because that would be just TERRIBLE!

Article

The notorious Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad is at the centre of fresh abuse allegations just a week after it was handed over to Iraqi authorities, with claims that inmates are being tortured by their new captors.

Staff at the jail say the Iraqi authorities have moved dozens of terrorist suspects into Abu Ghraib from the controversial Interior Ministry detention centre in Jadriyah, where United States troops last year discovered 169 prisoners who had been tortured and starved.

An independent witness who went into Abu Ghraib this week told The Sunday Telegraph that screams were coming from the cell blocks housing the terrorist suspects. Prisoners released from the jail this week spoke of routine torture of terrorism suspects and on Wednesday, 27 prisoners were hanged in the first mass execution since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime.

Conditions in the rest of the jail were grim, with an overwhelming stench of excrement, prisoners crammed into cells for all but 20 minutes a day, food rations cut to just rice and water and no air conditioning.

Some of the small number of prisoners who remained in the jail after the Americans left said they had pleaded to go with their departing captors, rather than be left in the hands of Iraqi guards.

"The Americans were better than the Iraqis. They treated us better," said Khalid Alaani, who was held on suspicion of involvement in Sunni terrorism.

Abu Ghraib became synonymous with abuse after shocking pictures were published in 2004 showing prisoners being tortured and humiliated, galvanising opposition to the US presence in Iraq.

The witness gained access to the prison just days after the Americans formally handed over control to the Iraqi authorities on Sept 1.

Inside the 100-yard long cell block the smell of excrement was overpowering. Four to six prisoners shared each of the 12ft by 15ft cells along either side and the walls were smeared with filth. The cell block was patrolled by guards who carried long batons and shouted angrily at the prisoners to stand up.

Access to the part of the prison containing terrorism suspects was denied, but from that block came the sound of screaming. The screaming continued for a long time.

"I am sure someone was being beaten, they were screaming like they were being hit," the witness reported. "I felt scared, I was asking what was happening in the terrorist section.

"I heard shouting, like someone had a hot iron on their body, screams. The officer said they were just screaming by themselves. I was hearing the screams throughout the visit."

The witness said that even in the thieves' section prisoners were being treated badly. "Someone was shouting 'Please help us, we want the human rights officers, we want the Americans to come back'," he said.

Prisoners interviewed in the presence of their jailers said they were frightened for their safety. They complained that chicken and milk had been cut from their rations, leaving them on rice and water. They also complained about the oppressive heat.

Outside the prison, relatives of some of the inmates said they were being tortured by their captors. One woman, who gave her name as Omsaad, said: "My son Saad [who was arrested in Fallujah as a suspected insurgent] said he is being tortured by the Iraqis to confess the name of his leader. I met my son and he told me they were being treated badly by the Iraqis."

Haleem Aleulami, who was released from the jail last week, three weeks after being arrested in Ramadi for carrying a pistol in his car, said the Americans had treated him better when they ran the jail. He claimed that visits from the International Red Cross staff had dried up and accused local human rights workers of being members of Shia groups who turned a blind eye to problems in the jail.

"The people are Iraqis and they are members of the Sciri and al Dawa parties. They have a good relationship with the leaders of the jail and they keep quiet," he said. The guards swore at the ordinary prisoners, he said, but those in the terrorist section were treated more brutally.

"The guards were swearing at us, but in the terrorist section they were beating them. I heard it all the time. Everyone knows what is happening."

And Khalid Alaani, who was also picked up in Ramadi suspected of involvement in Sunni terrorism, said: "We preferred the Americans. We asked to move with them to Baghdad airport because we knew the treatment would be changed because we know what the Iraqis are. When the Americans left everything changed."

Staff at the jail said that the prisoners were allowed out from their cells for only 15 to 20 minutes a day because of the danger from the regular mortar attacks. They are no longer allowed access to the main hall where the Americans had allowed them to watch television and the room is now reserved for the use of officers and guards. Staff explained that the air conditioning in the cell blocks had broken, although it was working in their quarters.

One officer, Capt Ali Abdelzaher, said: "We have a problem with the financing for the food, not like the Americans, and there is a technical problem with the air conditioning."

Capt Abdelzaher also confirmed that a number of inmates had been transferred from the Jadriyah detention centre, along with their guards and interrogators.

Graphic stories of abuse at that previously secret facility emerged after US soldiers found 169 prisoners showing signs of torture last November.

Most of the prisoners held by the Americans at Abu Ghraib were either released in recent months or transferred to a new £32 million detention centre at Camp Cropper near Baghdad International Airport.

Yesterday, the International Red Cross confirmed that its visits to the prison had been suspended since January 2005 on security grounds.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
Are you trying to tell me that they don't treat their prisoners well? I am so surprised.:roll: I mean, every American who's ever been a prisoner, anywhere in the ME (or Mexico, for that matter), has always raved about how well they were treated.[/sarcasm]
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.
So we shouldn't hold ouselves accountable? It's ok with you for us to act like those uncivilized sub human murderous rat fscks? Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,222
654
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.
So we shouldn't hold ouselves accountable? It's ok with you for us to act like those uncivilized sub human murderous rat fscks? Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

No kidding. The idea that accountability goes out the window as soon as someone or something does something worse is ridiculous.
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

As one would expect civilized people to do. But it seems like every day Bush supporters set the bar lower and lower just so they can excuse their leaders or service (wo)mens inappropriate behavior.

If they keep this up, people will look at America no differently than your average middle eastern shithole.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

As one would expect civilized people to do. But it seems like every day Bush supporters set the bar lower and lower just so they can excuse their leaders or service (wo)mens inappropriate behavior.

If they keep this up, people will look at America no differently than your average middle eastern shithole.

And we SHOULD set the bar lower and lower.
Maybe you havent noticed, but we're the only country "held accountable" for sh1t.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Your crayon scratchings make more sense at the kids table. You really are a TRUE American. :roll:
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Your crayon scratchings make more sense at the kids table. You really are a TRUE American. :roll:

Denying reality again eh?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

As one would expect civilized people to do. But it seems like every day Bush supporters set the bar lower and lower just so they can excuse their leaders or service (wo)mens inappropriate behavior.

If they keep this up, people will look at America no differently than your average middle eastern shithole.

And we SHOULD set the bar lower and lower.
Maybe you havent noticed, but we're the only country "held accountable" for sh1t.
And if we do thenm we are no better than them.

 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Your crayon scratchings make more sense at the kids table. You really are a TRUE American. :roll:

Denying reality again eh?

Nah, I just get tired of idiots who try and justify our actions by stating someone else is equal or worse. It is a 2nd grade trick and also reserved for the kids table. Nice reality, no thanks, it is yours, you can keep it in your camp.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.
So we shouldn't hold ouselves accountable? It's ok with you for us to act like those uncivilized sub human murderous rat fscks? Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

:thumbsup:
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

As one would expect civilized people to do. But it seems like every day Bush supporters set the bar lower and lower just so they can excuse their leaders or service (wo)mens inappropriate behavior.

If they keep this up, people will look at America no differently than your average middle eastern shithole.

And we SHOULD set the bar lower and lower.
Maybe you havent noticed, but we're the only country "held accountable" for sh1t.

Amazing how we say we should impose our values on other people, spread democracy, and shed lighted our moral high-ground on the world while degrading everything we stand for to be nothing more than what we are deposing.

If we want to be the guiding light of the world, we better do so from a higher platform than "They do it too".

Which is the fundamental problem with fundamentalists, they are more than willing to utilize any and all power to achieve their goals. So, you and those you support or agree with are nothing more than mini-Ban Ladens.

 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Your crayon scratchings make more sense at the kids table. You really are a TRUE American. :roll:

Denying reality again eh?

Nah, I just get tired of idiots who try and justify our actions by stating someone else is equal or worse. It is a 2nd grade trick and also reserved for the kids table. Nice reality, no thanks, it is yours, you can keep it in your camp.
lol, owned
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Ahh, the inevitable wingnut lament that America cannot torture and kill indiscriminantly. Strap on your "Club Gitmo" tee shirt 'cause you're a great American Sean. :roll:
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: alien42
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: moshquerade
how silly. only America is help accountable for anything. others can do as they please.

Your crayon scratchings make more sense at the kids table. You really are a TRUE American. :roll:

Denying reality again eh?

Nah, I just get tired of idiots who try and justify our actions by stating someone else is equal or worse. It is a 2nd grade trick and also reserved for the kids table. Nice reality, no thanks, it is yours, you can keep it in your camp.
lol, owned

I think "owned" applies to those who dont have the spine to hold everyone to the same standard.
America cant do it, but everyone else can.

Makes you look like someone who trruly cares about human rights and not an agenda doesnt it?

Owned indeed.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Sorry but I hold ourselves up to higher standards.

As one would expect civilized people to do. But it seems like every day Bush supporters set the bar lower and lower just so they can excuse their leaders or service (wo)mens inappropriate behavior.

If they keep this up, people will look at America no differently than your average middle eastern shithole.

And we SHOULD set the bar lower and lower.
Maybe you havent noticed, but we're the only country "held accountable" for sh1t.

Amazing how we say we should impose our values on other people, spread democracy, and shed lighted our moral high-ground on the world while degrading everything we stand for to be nothing more than what we are deposing.

If we want to be the guiding light of the world, we better do so from a higher platform than "They do it too".

Which is the fundamental problem with fundamentalists, they are more than willing to utilize any and all power to achieve their goals. So, you and those you support or agree with are nothing more than mini-Ban Ladens.

Then you bring up the age old question, does the end justify the means or does the means justify the end.

I personally put the goal above how it is achieved. In this case, not achieving the goal means "We lose".
Feel good emotions wont mean a dman thing when we've lost.

But then again, I should also clarify I also dont necesarily support spreading our democracy, ideals or the WoT either. So to use that as you basis for argument is lost on me because I dont entirely support it to begin with.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
I hope this serves as a lesson to who Arabs really are and how they treat each other. It's no worse than their past regimes, mind, nor is it any worse than what the Iranians are doing to their goverment opposition.

What's the issue? You can't hold the same standards for everybody. You have to speak their language.


 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,709
8
81
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I hope this serves as a lesson to who Arabs really are and how they treat each other. It's no worse than their past regimes, mind, nor is it any worse than what the Iranians are doing to their goverment opposition.

What's the issue? You can't hold the same standards for everybody. You have to speak their language.

way to inject blatant racism in this thread. bravo.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
91
What a brilliant post. I guess the point is that if we compare our own human rights standards to those practiced in a Middle Eastern nation with a brand-new government, in the midst of a civil war, we'll come off smelling like a rose.

This is the very kind of stupidity that made it so easy for the Bush administration to co-opt the awful attack on 9/11 into a wholesale offensive war against a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

There is a reason that military JAGs were among the loudest voices raising objections to the torture conducted at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere: if we of all countries ignore the Geneva Conventions, we can hardly expect that our own troops will be treated any better. This is particularly critical where, as in Iraq, we undertook an offensive war against a sovereign nation, partially because of humanitarian abuses by the regime we sought to overturn. Meanwhile, the comically named "Specop 007" has not gotten, and never will get any closer to combat that what his Xbox permits.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007

Then you bring up the age old question, does the end justify the means or does the means justify the end.

I personally put the goal above how it is achieved. In this case, not achieving the goal means "We lose".
Feel good emotions wont mean a dman thing when we've lost.

But then again, I should also clarify I also dont necesarily support spreading our democracy, ideals or the WoT either. So to use that as you basis for argument is lost on me because I dont entirely support it to begin with.

So what you're basically saying is that it's a good policy to uphold the virtues and rights laid out in our Constitution by shredding and then pissing on it? The ends can't justify anything if the means to get to it negate the ends from occurring!

Unlike most conservatives I meet, I think the idea of patriotism is sickening. Basically an American patriot is a person who thinks that Americans deserve the right to be treated like first class citizens and human beings and that everyone else deserves to be treated like second class citizens. And then if they happen to be from a majority Islamic nation, then don't even treat them like human beings. The idea of spreading democracy, while incredibly flawed, is actually a noble idea of spreading the concept of global equality, though I think that purpose was lost somewhere along the way unfortunately.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
What a brilliant post. I guess the point is that if we compare our own human rights standards to those practiced in a Middle Eastern nation with a brand-new government, in the midst of a civil war, we'll come off smelling like a rose.

This is the very kind of stupidity that made it so easy for the Bush administration to co-opt the awful attack on 9/11 into a wholesale offensive war against a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

There is a reason that military JAGs were among the loudest voices raising objections to the torture conducted at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere: if we of all countries ignore the Geneva Conventions, we can hardly expect that our own troops will be treated any better. This is particularly critical where, as in Iraq, we undertook an offensive war against a sovereign nation, partially because of humanitarian abuses by the regime we sought to overturn. Meanwhile, the comically named "Specop 007" has not gotten, and never will get any closer to combat that what his Xbox permits.

Empty comparison and personal attcks.
Well done!

Please, tell me how our captured GIs could be treated WORSE. Tortured, hung from bridges, drug behind cars and heads cut off. Damn, I'd hate to see whats WORSE then that!
But at least they dont have to put underwear on their heads right?

Your comparison is empty at best. If our troops recieved the same treatment terrorists do in our prisons.....
More to the point, maybe terrorists in our prisons should recieve the same treatment our GI's do......
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: thraashman
Originally posted by: Specop 007

Then you bring up the age old question, does the end justify the means or does the means justify the end.

I personally put the goal above how it is achieved. In this case, not achieving the goal means "We lose".
Feel good emotions wont mean a dman thing when we've lost.

But then again, I should also clarify I also dont necesarily support spreading our democracy, ideals or the WoT either. So to use that as you basis for argument is lost on me because I dont entirely support it to begin with.

So what you're basically saying is that it's a good policy to uphold the virtues and rights laid out in our Constitution by shredding and then pissing on it? The ends can't justify anything if the means to get to it negate the ends from occurring!

Unlike most conservatives I meet, I think the idea of patriotism is sickening. Basically an American patriot is a person who thinks that Americans deserve the right to be treated like first class citizens and human beings and that everyone else deserves to be treated like second class citizens. And then if they happen to be from a majority Islamic nation, then don't even treat them like human beings. The idea of spreading democracy, while incredibly flawed, is actually a noble idea of spreading the concept of global equality, though I think that purpose was lost somewhere along the way unfortunately.

Does the Constitution apply to everyone the world over?
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I hope this serves as a lesson to who Arabs really are and how they treat each other. It's no worse than their past regimes, mind, nor is it any worse than what the Iranians are doing to their goverment opposition.

What's the issue? You can't hold the same standards for everybody. You have to speak their language.

way to inject blatant racism in this thread. bravo.

Samur is the resident Israeli apologist. It's sad because the Israelis have succumbed to "who Arabs really are and how they treat each other." What's even worse is that it's in the same vein of how the Nazis treated Jews and Allied prisoners.

For Samur, it doesn't matter. Vengeance reigns supreme in the Middle East. This is the very definition of a "race to the bottom." I pray to God that American's don't succumb to the level of all those Arabs and Jews in that sh!thole region again.

 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Yes, perhaps if we beat the prisoners just a little more Iraq wouldn't be in the current state of anarchy that its in now.
 
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