Iraq's Election Aligns Countries Policies . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Who couldn't have predicted this ?

When a Country has 60% of their population as strictly Shia -
of course that Religious Doctrine will be the force to come to power.

Not what Bushie wanted - but dare they let the 'Will of the Country' stand ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington Post
<CLIP>

When the Bush administration decided to invade Iraq two years ago, it envisioned a quick handover to handpicked allies in a secular government that would be the antithesis of Iran's theocracy -- potentially even a foil to Tehran's regional ambitions.

But, in one of the greatest ironies of the U.S. intervention, Iraqis instead went to the polls and elected a government with a strong religious base -- and very close ties to the Islamic republic next door. It is the last thing the administration expected from its costly Iraq policy -- $300 billion and counting, U.S. and regional analysts say.

Yesterday, the White House heralded the election and credited the U.S. role. In a statement, President Bush praised Iraqis "for defying terrorist threats and setting their country on the path of democracy and freedom. And I congratulate every candidate who stood for election and those who will take office once the results are certified."

Yet the top two winning parties -- which together won more than 70 percent of the vote and are expected to name Iraq's new prime minister and president -- are Iran's closest allies in Iraq.

Thousands of members of the United Iraqi Alliance, a Shiite-dominated slate that won almost half of the 8.5 million votes and will name the prime minister, spent decades in exile in Iran. Most of the militia members in its largest faction were trained in Shiite-dominated Iran.

And the winning Kurdish alliance, whose co-leader Jalal Talabani is the top nominee for president, has roots in a province abutting Iran, which long served as its economic and political lifeline.

"This is a government that will have very good relations with Iran. The Kurdish victory reinforces this conclusion. Talabani is very close to Tehran," said Juan Cole, a University of Michigan expert on Iraq. "In terms of regional geopolitics, this is not the outcome that the United States was hoping for."

Added Rami Khouri, Arab analyst and editor of Beirut's Daily Star: "The idea that the United States would get a quick, stable, prosperous, pro-American and pro-Israel Iraq has not happened. Most of the neoconservative assumptions about what would happen have proven false."

The results have long-term implications. For decades, both Republican and Democratic administrations played Baghdad and Tehran off each other to ensure neither became a regional giant threatening or dominant over U.S. allies, notably Saudi Arabia and the oil-rich Gulf sheikdoms.

But now, Cole said, Iraq and Iran are likely to take similar positions on many issues, from oil prices to U.S. policy on Iran. "If the United States had decided three years ago to bomb Iran, it would have produced joy in Baghdad," he added. "Now it might produce strong protests from Baghdad."

Conversely, the Iraqi secular democrats backed most strongly by the Bush administration lost big. During his State of the Union address last year, Bush invited Adnan Pachachi, a longtime Sunni politician and then-president of the Iraqi Governing Council, to sit with first lady Laura Bush. Pachachi's party fared so poorly in the election that it won no seats in the national assembly.

And current Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, backed by the CIA during his years in exile and handpicked by U.S. and U.N. officials to lead the interim government, came in third. He addressed a joint session of Congress in September, a rare honor reserved for heads of state of the closest U.S. allies. But now, U.S. hopes that Allawi will tally enough votes to vie as a compromise candidate and continue his leadership are unrealistic, analysts say.

"The big losers in this election are the liberals," said Stanford University's Larry Diamond, who was an adviser to the U.S. occupation government. "The fact that three-quarters of the national assembly seats have gone to just two [out of 111] slates is a worrisome trend. Unless the ruling coalition reaches out to broaden itself to include all groups, the insurgency will continue -- and may gain ground."

Adel Abdul Mahdi, who is a leading contender to be prime minister, reiterated yesterday that the new government does not want to emulate Iran. "We don't want either a Shiite government or an Islamic government," he said on CNN's "Late Edition." "Now we are working for a democratic government. This is our choice."

And a senior State Department official said yesterday that the 48 percent vote won by the Shiite slate deprives it of an outright majority. "If it had been higher, the slate would be seen with a lot more trepidation," he said on the condition of anonymity because of department rules.

U.S. and regional analysts agree that Iraq is not likely to become an Iranian surrogate. Iraq's Arabs and Iran's Persians have a long and rocky history. During the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, Iraq's Shiite troops did not defect to Iran.

"There's the assumption that the new government will be close to Iran or influenced by Iran. That's a strong and reasonable assumption," Khouri said. "But I don't think anyone knows -- including Grand Ayatollah [Ali] Sistani -- where the fault line is between Shiite religious identity and Iraqi national identity."

Iranian-born Sistani is now Iraq's top cleric -- and the leader who pressed for elections when Washington favored a caucus system to pick a government. His aides have also rejected Iran's theocracy as a model, although the Shiite slate is expected to press for Islamic law to be incorporated in the new constitution.

For now, the United States appears prepared to accept the results -- in large part because it has no choice.

But the results were announced at a time when the United States faces mounting tensions with Iran over its alleged nuclear weapons ambitions, support for extremism and human rights violations. On her first trip abroad this month, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Iran's behavior was "something to be loathed" and charged that the "unelected mullahs" are not good for Iran or the region.

One of the biggest questions, analysts say, is whether Iraq's democratic election will make it easier -- or harder -- to pressure Iran.


 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Preliminary reports had the Shiite religious majority even higher than the final results. Bush and co had to make that majority a bit more managable, hence the delay in the "final" results.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
al-Sistani is actually for the separation of church and state. He's not like the Iranian ayatollahs. It's the nationalist Shia/Sunni/Kurds that are of concern. They are the ones that will fight the raping of Iraq by foreign corporations.

Although, it appears the US is working to hedge its bets....er...investments:

US fights back against 'rule by clerics'
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB15Ak02.html
Asia Times Online has learned that in a highly clandestine operation, the US has procured Pakistan-manufactured weapons, including rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, ammunition, rockets and other light weaponry. Consignments have been loaded in bulk onto US military cargo aircraft at Chaklala airbase in the past few weeks. The aircraft arrived from and departed for Iraq.

The US-armed and supported militias in the south will comprise former members of the Ba'ath Party, which has already split into three factions, only one of which is pro-Saddam Hussein. They would be expected to receive assistance from pro-US interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's Iraqi National Accord.

A military analyst familiar with strategic and proxy operations commented that there is a specific reason behind procuring arms from Pakistan, rather than acquiring US-made ones.

"A similar strategy was adopted in Afghanistan during the initial few years of the anti-USSR resistance [the early 1980s] movement where guerrillas were supplied with Chinese-made AK-47 rifles [which were procured by Pakistan with US money], Egyptian and German-made G-3 rifles. Similarly, other arms, like anti-aircraft guns, short-range missiles and mortars, were also procured by the US from different countries and supplied to Pakistan, which handed them over to the guerrillas," the analyst maintained.

The obvious reason for this tactic is to give the impression that the resistance acquired its arms and ammunition from different channels and from different countries - and anywhere other than the United States.

Asia Times Online contacts said it is clear that Pakistan would not be the only country from which the US would have procured arms. And such arms could not be destined for the Iraqi security forces because US arms would be given to them.

For the Americans, the situation in southern Iraq has turned into a double-edged sword. Iraqis there fully embraced the elections - even if they had to be convinced by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to do so - and this participation was welcomed as a sign of democracy taking root in the country.

But with Shi'ite religious parties emerging as the strongest power, no sooner were the elections over than voices were raised for the creation of an autonomous southern Iraqi region, and for vilayet-e-faqih .

People from different walks of life from Basra and other southern provinces can be heard on television and radio channels demanding a federal system in which southern Shi'ites could govern their oil resources for their benefit.

Notably, Ahmad Chalabi, a leading secular Shi'ite candidate in the Iraqi elections, has called for autonomy for the Shi'ite south, which contains some of the world's largest oil fields. Chalabi, a former US favorite who fell out with Washington after the 2003 invasion, said the move would ensure a fairer share of wealth for a region that provides the bulk of Iraqi revenue but receives only a fraction of state spending. The mainly Shi'ite southern provinces of Amara, Nasiriya and Basra are Iraq's poorest, Chalabi said.

Observers say this is the beginning of a new era which could climax in a movement for vilayet-e-faqih , a compulsory part of the Shi'ite faith that is intertwined with the concept of imamat or leadership (all Muslims under one leader). The difference between a caliph and an imam is that a caliph can be anyone accepted by Muslims, but an imam must hail from the Prophet Mohammed's family and be a recognized religious authority (clergy).

Already, members of the Da'wa Party, many of whom were taught in Iran, have taken over mosques in Basra, and members of Hezbollah have heavily infiltrated the Shi'ite population, in addition to Iranian intelligence and members of the Pasdaran-i-Inqalab (Iran's Revolutionary Guards) to pave the way for vilayet-e-faqih.
I sure wouldn't be surprised to see other troops brought in to quell any future uprisings (the British did it with Pakistan and India in the past, why shouldn't the US follow along the colonial path?)

And, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Allawi and Chalabi make it to PM or at least the Cabinet so they can put the screws to the true Iraqis to turn them into US puppets so American corporations can reap profits.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::
Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
Why, yes. Yes, it was.

"mushroom cloud"
"grave threat"
"thousand of tons of chemical weapons"
"45 minutes to launch"
"biological weapons"
"reconstituted nuclear program"
"aluminum tubes"
"yellowcake"

"Fear grave threat fear fear threat bomb terror fear"
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.

So which justification are you all using this week?

Tell me, do you guys get together and pick out of a hat and spoonfeed everyone that excuse for a week?
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I would think it is ridiculous to assume both countries would have tense relationships. Iraq's longest border with Iran, and both cutlures have affected eachother (notice how "arab" amyn things in Iran looks, and notice how Iraqi arabic borrows a lot of sounds from Farsi). This doesn't mean Iraq will be a "IRan Lite" under the control of IRan, because even if the government decides to have favorable tires with another strategically important country (which makes perfect sense), that doesn't mean they don't want to make their own decisions. So i'm with tastychicken on this one.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?

:laugh: :thumbsup:

Bullseye.

 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.

Yes, we don't want to discuss how Bush ignored genuine threats as he demanded and received the intelligence he requested to justify attacking Iraq unprovoked, WMD, and why it's smart to wage naked aggression that destroys alliances and foments hatred by showing the people of the Middle East and the world, in graphic terms, that Americans are behaving exactly as the they have been told we would.

I'd rather forget it all and worship the criminals who got us to this point so they can continue building their empire and we can continue enjoying all of the obvious benefits. :roll:

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad you are aware of the inner feelings of the majority of the country. I dont have that particular telepathic ability myself.

Have you ever considered that a lot of people simply see going into Iraq as a smart move in dealing with the problem of terorism in the ME? Were people scared after 9/11? Of course. But that fear evolves into asking oneself - How do we ameliorate that fear? What do we need to do to prevent more 9/11s and a further advance of these loony few who want to kill us all?

Going into Iraq was done for a reason. If you want to believe that everyone made that decision whilst crouched in a corner, shaking in their boots, well...go right ahead. imo, it was more reasoned determination to finally deal with the problem directly, even if it cost us many lives in the process. That doesn't sound like a decision that was based on fear to me. ymmv.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
As far as the article from WaPo, I'd suggest reading this for much further insights and facts concerning the statements made in the article. Dan Darling breaks it down pretty well and shows that the overall despairing tone of the article really doesn't mesh well with many of the facts on the ground.
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad you are aware of the inner feelings of the majority of the country. I dont have that particular telepathic ability myself.

Have you ever considered that a lot of people simply see going into Iraq as a smart move in dealing with the problem of terorism in the ME? Were people scared after 9/11? Of course. But that fear evolves into asking oneself - How do we ameliorate that fear? What do we need to do to prevent more 9/11s and a further advance of these loony few who want to kill us all?

Going into Iraq was done for a reason. If you want to believe that everyone made that decision whilst crouched in a corner, shaking in their boots, well...go right ahead. imo, it was more reasoned determination to finally deal with the problem directly, even if it cost us many lives in the process. That doesn't sound like a decision that was based on fear to me. ymmv.


Well, I may not have telepathic insight into the soul of every person in this country, but I certainly remember (I'm talking about the run-up to the war here) hearing, watching and reading many interviews with random citizens from all over the country. And I heard fear, not logic.

Personally, I haven't considered that many people saw it as a smart move. Mainly because I'm aware of the overall lack of awareness and political saviness of the vast majority of the population. My opinion (my educated guess) is that most of them go on emotion and knee-jerking rather than reason, and Congress (each member intent on keeping their jobs) follows their will.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
I think it's kind of funny that 30 days ago, the posts were "the US will rig the election and allow their puppet regime to win." Now, it's "the elections counts are in we don't like who won."
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad you are aware of the inner feelings of the majority of the country. I dont have that particular telepathic ability myself.

Have you ever considered that a lot of people simply see going into Iraq as a smart move in dealing with the problem of terorism in the ME? Were people scared after 9/11? Of course. But that fear evolves into asking oneself - How do we ameliorate that fear? What do we need to do to prevent more 9/11s and a further advance of these loony few who want to kill us all?

Going into Iraq was done for a reason. If you want to believe that everyone made that decision whilst crouched in a corner, shaking in their boots, well...go right ahead. imo, it was more reasoned determination to finally deal with the problem directly, even if it cost us many lives in the process. That doesn't sound like a decision that was based on fear to me. ymmv.


Well, I may not have telepathic insight into the soul of every person in this country, but I certainly remember (I'm talking about the run-up to the war here) hearing, watching and reading many interviews with random citizens from all over the country. And I heard fear, not logic.
I go by what I see, not what the media wants me to see. What I saw was anger, a desire for vengence, and in some cases hate. People wanted to extract their pound of flesh. That's what the admin used and manipulated, not fear.

Personally, I haven't considered that many people saw it as a smart move. Mainly because I'm aware of the overall lack of awareness and political saviness of the vast majority of the population. My opinion (my educated guess) is that most of them go on emotion and knee-jerking rather than reason, and Congress (each member intent on keeping their jobs) follows their will.
A lot of those same uninformed people right now aren't supporting the war effort when they did previously.

What does that say about them or support for the war? Were they wrong when they agreed with the war and now are right, even though they don't know squat about what's going on over there?
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad you are aware of the inner feelings of the majority of the country. I dont have that particular telepathic ability myself.

Have you ever considered that a lot of people simply see going into Iraq as a smart move in dealing with the problem of terorism in the ME? Were people scared after 9/11? Of course. But that fear evolves into asking oneself - How do we ameliorate that fear? What do we need to do to prevent more 9/11s and a further advance of these loony few who want to kill us all?

Going into Iraq was done for a reason. If you want to believe that everyone made that decision whilst crouched in a corner, shaking in their boots, well...go right ahead. imo, it was more reasoned determination to finally deal with the problem directly, even if it cost us many lives in the process. That doesn't sound like a decision that was based on fear to me. ymmv.


Well, I may not have telepathic insight into the soul of every person in this country, but I certainly remember (I'm talking about the run-up to the war here) hearing, watching and reading many interviews with random citizens from all over the country. And I heard fear, not logic.
I go by what I see, not what the media wants me to see. What I saw was anger, a desire for vengence, and in some cases hate. People wanted to extract their pound of flesh. That's what the admin used and manipulated, not fear.

Personally, I haven't considered that many people saw it as a smart move. Mainly because I'm aware of the overall lack of awareness and political saviness of the vast majority of the population. My opinion (my educated guess) is that most of them go on emotion and knee-jerking rather than reason, and Congress (each member intent on keeping their jobs) follows their will.
A lot of those same uninformed people right now aren't supporting the war effort when they did previously.

What does that say about them or support for the war? Were they wrong when they agreed with the war and now are right, even though they don't know squat about what's going on over there?

As to your points:

1. I believe those emotions are the result of fear.

2. I believe I have dealt with this one before. Are they "right"? That depends on the definition of "right" that you use. In a sense, their answer is right, and their reasoning is not. Either way, this seems irrelevant, as I was not trying to give them credit for whatever position they espoused. I was explaining why I do not think most people are capable of arriving at a conclusion based on logic and reason, when it comes to politics.
 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
1,899
0
0
justify attacking Iraq unprovoked,

Huh...

I seem to recall over 100 missile attacks against our jets.

I also seem to recall a murder plot for an ex-president.


Both of which are in total violation of the cease fire and any treaty we had. As a matter of fact, Iraq had first violated these within weeks of signing them. So TECHNICALLY smarty - we were at war since the end of the last war. And they were HOSTILE. Need I mention all of the violations of the UNs trust.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Good to know that, now that your whining about the election being fixed and about the election changing nothing haven't paid off, you've moved on to a new topic. I suspect we're all better off with the lot of you merely making complaints instead of constructive suggestions.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yet another fearmongering prediction about Iraq?

::yawn::

Wasn't fearmongering the cause of going into Iraq in the first place?
No. But you nor others in here wish to discuss the reason we are in Iraq and why it's smart to be there. You'd rather bury your heads in the sand on that issue so you can relentlessly swing your d!cks at the Bush pinata all day.

Sad little people you are.


TLC, fearmongering was in fact the cause. It may have not been the reason, but no reasonably intelligent person could deny that fearmongering was the cause for a large portion of the country and a majority of Congress to back the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad you are aware of the inner feelings of the majority of the country. I dont have that particular telepathic ability myself.

Have you ever considered that a lot of people simply see going into Iraq as a smart move in dealing with the problem of terorism in the ME? Were people scared after 9/11? Of course. But that fear evolves into asking oneself - How do we ameliorate that fear? What do we need to do to prevent more 9/11s and a further advance of these loony few who want to kill us all?

Going into Iraq was done for a reason. If you want to believe that everyone made that decision whilst crouched in a corner, shaking in their boots, well...go right ahead. imo, it was more reasoned determination to finally deal with the problem directly, even if it cost us many lives in the process. That doesn't sound like a decision that was based on fear to me. ymmv.


Well, I may not have telepathic insight into the soul of every person in this country, but I certainly remember (I'm talking about the run-up to the war here) hearing, watching and reading many interviews with random citizens from all over the country. And I heard fear, not logic.
I go by what I see, not what the media wants me to see. What I saw was anger, a desire for vengence, and in some cases hate. People wanted to extract their pound of flesh. That's what the admin used and manipulated, not fear.

Personally, I haven't considered that many people saw it as a smart move. Mainly because I'm aware of the overall lack of awareness and political saviness of the vast majority of the population. My opinion (my educated guess) is that most of them go on emotion and knee-jerking rather than reason, and Congress (each member intent on keeping their jobs) follows their will.
A lot of those same uninformed people right now aren't supporting the war effort when they did previously.

What does that say about them or support for the war? Were they wrong when they agreed with the war and now are right, even though they don't know squat about what's going on over there?

As to your points:

1. I believe those emotions are the result of fear./q]
THen we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. ime, fear acuses one to run and hide, or do nothing at all, not go after the problem.

2. I believe I have dealt with this one before. Are they "right"? That depends on the definition of "right" that you use. In a sense, their answer is right, and their reasoning is not. Either way, this seems irrelevant, as I was not trying to give them credit for whatever position they espoused. I was explaining why I do not think most people are capable of arriving at a conclusion based on logic and reason, when it comes to politics.
I agree. Many in this forum make that evidently clear.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |