Iron Lore goes down... (Titan Quest)

[Dumac]

All of my friends constantly pirate games. Perhaps I hang out with a bad crowd?

Honestly, the only games I pirate are ridiculously old games and those who I would have to jump through a thousand hoops to get.

Piracy is quite popular amongst everyone I associate with IRL, but perhaps I'm just unlucky about the people I meet.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Dumac
All of my friends constantly pirate games. Perhaps I hang out with a bad crowd?

Honestly, the only games I pirate are ridiculously old games and those who I would have to jump through a thousand hoops to get.

Piracy is quite popular amongst everyone I associate with IRL, but perhaps I'm just unlucky about the people I meet.

i think it is far more common among the "younger generation" ... they do not equate "pirating" with "stealing" ... sometime in the last 20-30 years the social conscience has been slowly changing toward accepting it

Years past, we would always trade "tapes" and "LPs" and copy them. ANd it was considered "fair use" by Law. With the advent of the Internet and both UNlimited and *perfect* copying ... sharing a File among "friends" could mean sharing with MILLIONS ... that definitely hurts the people who depend on selling their SW for a living.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

Uhhhhh, it's called a test drive.

 

[apoppin]

That may be how it starts ... but MOST "pirates" don't delete it, they play it and they NEVER pay for it
-it's rather like *never* returning that car to the dealer; the dealer loses a sale and much worse

:thumbsdown:

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: m0mentary
I bought the game and enjoyed it, I don't understand why not even 1/4th of the millions of people who loved Diablo didn't pick it up.

EDIT: I also agree that it must be frustrating to deal with consumers who buy video cards based solely on how high the model number. I've seen it happen too many times.

He kind of covers this, but god damn...how can anyone expect an individual that hasn't done a ton of research on video cards to figure this out? The world of video cards is insane. You can't even judge it on price since you've got bestbuy still selling fx5200s for $120 and internet retailers selling top of the line cards from 3 generations ago at their original MSRP. Even if you figure out that the 7 means the generation and the x00 means the power (sort of, not entirely!) then you still have to contend with the LE, SE, XT, XTX, GT, GS, GTS, etc, etc business that has no sort of standard at all.

Of course consumers end up with shit. Even if you show up with cash and want to buy the fastest card half the time you'll walk out with a shitty one unless you've read about them for 6 hours and had background knowledge to begin with.

I've got my brother in law saying that he thinks he needs more ram to run bioshock (he has 1GB)...I don't really have the heart to tell him that the "sweet video card" that he had put in his custom machine (a 7300LE) was a useless turd the day it was released.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Sabotaging your game if it fails security checks without letting the people using it know why is just a godaweful idea. Making it even worse is the false positive problems that are bound to occur. I remember reading a rather smug article about a game a few years ago that implemented a slowly decaying game as a security measure, and I thought what kind of retard thought that was a brilliant idea.

Thats what I was thinking. Its nothing new for a pirated version to be screwed up or incomplete, or for people to mistakenly blame the developers for the screwed up pirate version...but he can't control that. What he could have controlled was the decision to implement a system that would make that 10 times worse! He complains about the collateral damage of them intentionally damaging the pirated versions, but he should have known that making the pirated version appear to be buggy would have collateral damage.

The way I figure it, those people were either going to steal the game or they weren't. Probably some of them were using it as a demo. Are pirated games demos? No, but in reality some people were using them as such in their stead. They were so obsessed with "screwing those pirates" that they cut off their nose to spite their face. It was never clear that the pirated version caused the problems to people, so people blamed the game. He might have known that would happen, justified or not. Some of those pirated versions might have turned into real sales. And the chorus of bug complaints, justified or not, would have been less...which would have translated into more sales. That copyright system wasn't about making sales, it was about getting revenge...product success be damned.

Its true piracy is part of the problem, but I really don't think that kind of system helps on any level. Big deal, he kept a few pirates from enjoying your game. They weren't going to give you any money anyway, and you lost some real sales because of it.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

It is called Test Driving... it is how one sells a car...

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: m0mentary
I bought the game and enjoyed it, I don't understand why not even 1/4th of the millions of people who loved Diablo didn't pick it up.

EDIT: I also agree that it must be frustrating to deal with consumers who buy video cards based solely on how high the model number. I've seen it happen too many times.

He kind of covers this, but god damn...how can anyone expect an individual that hasn't done a ton of research on video cards to figure this out? The world of video cards is insane. You can't even judge it on price since you've got bestbuy still selling fx5200s for $120 and internet retailers selling top of the line cards from 3 generations ago at their original MSRP. Even if you figure out that the 7 means the generation and the x00 means the power (sort of, not entirely!) then you still have to contend with the LE, SE, XT, XTX, GT, GS, GTS, etc, etc business that has no sort of standard at all.

Of course consumers end up with shit. Even if you show up with cash and want to buy the fastest card half the time you'll walk out with a shitty one unless you've read about them for 6 hours and had background knowledge to begin with.

I've got my brother in law saying that he thinks he needs more ram to run bioshock (he has 1GB)...I don't really have the heart to tell him that the "sweet video card" that he had put in his custom machine (a 7300LE) was a useless turd the day it was released.

For sure, I spend a lot of time in walmart at the electronics, just playing the DS and stuff for a bit whenever I go to get groceries. I see ppl walk in to the section, grab the ATI X1300 and walk up to a employee and as how good it is. Some employees say "Look right here, it says refresh rate 60hz @ 2048 that means at max resolution it will give you 60 frames per second. Its a really good card."

I feel bad for those ppl, luckily not many opt to buy, even after hearing that wad of BS.

 

[NoSoup4You]

PC games rule. PC gamers don't.

Piracy sucks.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

can you name 1 car dealership that doesn't allow test drives? EVERY game company should be REQUIRED to release a demo for EVERY game they put out. I'm sick of spending money on games that suck.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Yeah, and prostitutes need to be legally required to have a demo too.

The sense of entitlement among PC gamers is mind boggling.

 

[Mavrick007]

I'm sad to see Iron Lore go. I really did like Titan Quest for a bit of hack and slashing.
I too just bought the Gold Edition the other day and I was looking forward to a sequel.

Looking at Michael's rant, it doesn't seem very professional but I do understand because
out of the many reasons that took them out of the business, piracy and bad rep was
probably the straw that broke the camel's back (not the only reasons, but something
that makes one bitter).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

can you name 1 car dealership that doesn't allow test drives? EVERY game company should be REQUIRED to release a demo for EVERY game they put out. I'm sick of spending money on games that suck.

in former Soviet Union, maybe

you have to be a little 'off' to KEEP ON buying suck game after suck game without at LEAST reading the reviews [here]


and there is no *excuse* for pirating ... i find it hard to excuse a goddamn THIEF! :|

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Yeah, and prostitutes need to be legally required to have a demo too.

The sense of entitlement among PC gamers is mind boggling.

how is it a sense of entitlement to want to be able to try something before you buy it?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

can you name 1 car dealership that doesn't allow test drives? EVERY game company should be REQUIRED to release a demo for EVERY game they put out. I'm sick of spending money on games that suck.

in former Soviet Union, maybe

you have to be a little 'off' to KEEP ON buying suck game after suck game without at LEAST reading the reviews [here]


and there is no *excuse* for pirating ... i find it hard to excuse a goddamn THIEF! :|

reviews means nothing to me, especially here. Look at Crysis and HL2 for example. I can't even stand to play crysis to finish it and I thought HL2 was mediocre at best. both games are rated next to godliness here to most gamers.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: pontifex

reviews means nothing to me, especially here. Look at Crysis and HL2 for example. I can't even stand to play crysis to finish it and I thought HL2 was mediocre at best. both games are rated next to godliness here to most gamers.

you need to find someone who thinks like you ... rare, i know [] .. but look for their reviews

that's what i do now ... 100% success rate

 

[Noema]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i just picked it up this month
-and immortal throne both for $20

Yeah, I'm downloading the Titan Quest pack from Steam as I type this. Too good to pass up for $19.95

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

can you name 1 car dealership that doesn't allow test drives? EVERY game company should be REQUIRED to release a demo for EVERY game they put out. I'm sick of spending money on games that suck.

I can't name a single dealership that's going to hand you the keys to a $20,000 car and say, "Sure, go drive it for a while... keep it for, eh, 10... maybe 20,000 miles. If you like it, then you can pay for it. If not, just total the car."

THAT is what equates to software piracy. Taking a test drive is downloading a demo (though I must say that the demo scene sucks these days - most companies release a demo that has little resemblance to the final product *cough*EPIC*cough*). If there's no demo, suck it up and wait for someone you know and trust to buy it, or read some unbiased reviews from people you know (boards, friends, etc.).

 

[apoppin]

True .. and the car dealership has *insurance* ..

Game Publishers have ... DRM and copy-protection

Pirates have no excuse ... they are the *problem*
... they are THIEVES

who like to hear a thief make up bullshit excuses about "why" they do it .. they do it because they lack morals and sense and they also HATE it when someone steals from them.

damn hypocrites blame others for their character defect
- you can "excuse" murder if you follow their lack of reasoning
:thumbsdown:

 

[Borealis7]

I totally agree with everything the developer said. its impossible for a software company to test its game on every hardware configuration in existance. they should up the minimum requirements and simply put big warning labels on games: "your 486 will not be able to play this game!" plus i think it should be the vendors at games stores responsibility to ask people who buy games what computer they have but thats a conflict of interests - meaning - they have no interest for anything other than your money.

maybe gaming on the PC should be like overclocking: at your own risk. dont like it, buy a console and play the game like everyone else (stock settings). not saying that game developers should shed all remains of responsibility to developing good and bug-free software, but if you have "exotic" pieces of hardware in your computer, you should know their limitations.

it should be made clear to non-computer-savvy poeple that if they want to game on PC they should expect problems, or get a console.

what happend to the good ol' DOS days where people who couldnt type on a keyboard wouldnt get near a computer...nowadays it seems that they try to do all their work on it...

and poeple who pirate games dont have a focking right to complain about bugs.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Modelworks
He makes some good points.
One problem with piracy he didn't touch on is the cracks for games that are released.
People like to use the nocd version of the game executeable but need to realize that if they are experiencing problems with the game, it could be related to that file.

A new game comes out. Soon after, a crack is released. People use it instead of the original file and the game becomes unstable. The developer gets all the bad PR about the game being poorly coded. Gamers need to realize that the people who release cracks do not have the games source code and can and do make mistakes in creating these cracks.


Price of the game may seem like a simple thing, just lower it.
Wrong .
How much do you think the developer gets off each sale ?
75%, 50%, 25% ?

Its often 15% or lower.
So lowering the price of the game from the usual 49.95 to 19.95 , leaves the developer with about 3.00 off each copy sold.

They need to develop games for the pc that can be direct boot from the dvd.
Similar to the way the linux livecd concept works.
That bypasses windows, drivers installed, virus/spyware, and can help combat piracy.

I've made such a cd with quake , so I know the concept can work.

imo, MS needs to work with Devs on this .. they also need to design their OS so that it can go into "gaming mode" without rebooting ... where the OS is "devoted" to gaming processes and nearly everything else is shut down.

it seems a simple solution with MS involved
:conclusion;

They did make something like that... then decided it'd be a better idea to package it in an Xbox. Though something like this is a great idea...

Pirates are assholes, no matter what their stupid excuse is. No reason to pirate, if you can't afford it, don't fucking steal.

I buy lots of PC games, most on sale or when a hot deal pops up, but I also buy them at full price, if it's a game I've been waiting for.



Another small rant... digital distribution is great and all, but I am NOT going to pay retail or higher for a game to download it at home.

Games should be automatically 10-20% off retail for digital download. If a game is 50 in a store or 50 for download, I'd rather have the game disc and the perty box to go along with it for the same price, and not have to worry about some big ass download...

 

[ZzZGuy]

If a game has horrible DRM, then either boycott or pirate the game. Hopefully the developers/publishers will learn a hard lession, or at the least drive them into the ground as a example to others. As a consumer you speak with your wallet, i say no crappy DRM.

If the game has DRM that does not spy on you and will not inconvenience anyone who has a legit copy in any way -within reason, 10 minutes to register doesn't count for example- or even better no DRM, then the pirates can go and shove a pineapple up their @$$.

I like how Stardock handles anti piracy.
-The CD/digital download has no copy protection what-so-ever. You do not need the insert the CD to play.
-To download and install patches/play online you need to register the serial number with Stardock Central.
-Once registered you can download and install/backup to CD the latest version of the game.
-You only require Stardock Central to install/download stuff, if you have the game CD you will never "need" to touch it.
-A registered copy of the game can only be installed on X number of new computers (detects new OS, not hardware) and still receive updates. The limit appears to be 10 or so (this is my guess based on dev comments), but the support staff will gladly reset it for you if you do happen to reach this limit.

While it can be a little annoying downloading the program manager to register and download the updates, it is very painless and you no long need your game CD... ever. It makes things more troublesome for pirates while providing a good service to legit consumers.


Also these comparisons to cars and such are meaningless. If you pirate a game with the possibility of buying it (no/crappy demo), and like it then go out and buy the game to play online/get patches in some cases then it is no F'n different then a demo. The problem begins when you would buy the game but instead pirate it, then you're stealing. If you pirate it and hate it and decide not to buy it (pirate related bugs aside) then I believe this is not stealing, you sampled the product with no loss to the developer of the product and discontinued use of said product. You can take a car for a test spin all you want, have fun with that.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: apoppin

What I don't understand is, if piracy is THE reason for poor sales...

Let me try to make it clearer to you ... Piracy is the SOLE reason for the existence of protection schemes and DRM.

I wasn't asking that. My question was if piracy really hurts sales, it's clear it has hurted PC gaming in the sense developers are implementing useless (but annoying) DRM schemes in their games but again, that wasn't my question.

The thing is, DRM does nothing to stop piracy (and much to anger users), piracy may be the reason for DRM (well it IS the reason) but that doesn't mean that piracy is a real issue when it comes to sales.

I'll repeat it in bold so you don't quote a single line of my post and misinterpret it:

Is piracy the true culprit for poor game sales?

 

[ZzZGuy]

There has got to be a crap load of surveys over the years on the number of gamers (pc and console) and sales figures for each platform.

Surveys on how many people pirate a game are about as accurate as one on how many people masturbate done in person.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: apoppin

What I don't understand is, if piracy is THE reason for poor sales...

Let me try to make it clearer to you ... Piracy is the SOLE reason for the existence of protection schemes and DRM.

I wasn't asking that. My question was if piracy really hurts sales, it's clear it has hurted PC gaming in the sense developers are implementing useless (but annoying) DRM schemes in their games but again, that wasn't my question.

The thing is, DRM does nothing to stop piracy (and much to anger users), piracy may be the reason for DRM (well it IS the reason) but that doesn't mean that piracy is a real issue when it comes to sales.

I'll repeat it in bold so you don't quote a single line of my post and misinterpret it:

Is piracy the true culprit for poor game sales?

I'll repeat it in bold so you don't quote a single line of my post and misinterpret it:

Yes, piracy IS the true culprit for poor game sales!