It's time to put that one to bed. It never did fly well.Highly doubt the Bush appointed head of IRS at the time this started would have cooperated.
One can assert one's 5th Amendment rights at any point. Other than that I agree completely and hope this woman goes to prison.Somebody was going to take the fall for this and after her performance yesterday, we know she's guilty of something and I'd say she's it.
Trey Gowdy nailed it. She either got some really bad advice, (on purpose maybe?) did it purposely herself or is just too damned ignorant to have comprehended the consequences of making an opening statement and then pleading the fifth. Regardless, she's unfit for the office and unfit to serve the nation in any capacity.
It will be interesting to see how this debacle affects Obamacare. As the chief enforcement arm for it, the IRS has pretty much proven themselves incapable as well as unwilling to enforce the law in an unbiased manner.
This is the farthest thing from incompetence. Either you are a liar or an idiot - although I specifically do not exempt the possibility of both - to assert this. The IRS intentionally and systematically treated applicants for not-for-profit status completely differently depending on political affiliation. Since these are political advocacy groups, this has the immediate effect of discouraging political donations to conservative groups as well as giving them a 15% - 39% disadvantage in money spent. The IRS was also asking for donor lists, then feeding that information to progressive groups so that they could attack these people. There is absolutely no way this behavior happens through incompetence.I'm glad to hear that you consider the government illegally targeting individuals and groups is chilling. It is. Whenever they do it, to whomever.......
As to the 5th I believe you can invoke it anytime you wish.
This really looks like incompetence at the Ohio branch of the IRS with middle mangers now taking the fifth to cover their asses. Or is there a conspiracy I missed?
Yes, we need to end political free speech in this country.
D'oh
IRS's Lerner Had History of Harassment, Inappropriate Religious Inquiries at FEC
This woman quacks like a duck.
Lerner was appointed head of the FEC's enforcement division in 1986 and stayed in that position until 2001. In the late 1990s, the FEC launched an onerous investigation of the Christian Coalition, ultimately costing the organization hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless hours in lost work. The investigation was notable because the FEC alleged that the Christian Coalition was coordinating issue advocacy expenditures with a number of candidates for office. Aside from lacking proof this was happening, it was an open question whether the FEC had the authority to bring these charges.
and Lerner was promoted to acting General Counsel at the FEC in 2001 before eventually moving on to the IRS
Obama had nothing to do with it. Republicans look delusional and petty when they say he does.
IRS's Lerner Had History of Harassment, Inappropriate Religious Inquiries at FEC
This woman quacks like a duck.
Now you're just making shit up. I didn't say that.
What a disgusting piece of shit. Hopefully they put her in jail.
You said:
" Be a charity, keep your donors secret and help the community and be tax exempt but you have to stay the hell out of politics. Or choose to be a political org, have to disclose your donors and not have tax exemptions. "
By forcing them to pay an exorbitant tax rate in order to exercise their political speech rights you have violated their Constitutional Rights.
Wow, so Barack Obama managed to get Lerner a job at the FEC in 1986, got her promoted in 2001 during Bush's term, saw to it she was promoted to head of IRS so he could use her to go after conservatives in 2010!!!
Wow, so Barack Obama managed to get Lerner a job at the FEC in 1986, got her promoted in 2001 during Bush's term, saw to it she was promoted to head of IRS so he could use her to go after conservatives in 2010!!!
i don't see where the poster or anyone is claiming he put her in power or such.
I will say it sure looks like this lady should never have been put in the job and should be fired.
is that Obamas fault? no and i don't see someone blaming him for it. We do question when he knew what the IRS was doing and did he order it (i doubt).
I think he knew about it and supported it, but certainly did nothing to stop it.
i don't see where the poster or anyone is claiming he put her in power or such.
I will say it sure looks like this lady should never have been put in the job and should be fired.
is that Obamas fault? no and i don't see someone blaming him for it. We do question when he knew what the IRS was doing and did he order it (i doubt).
That was my satirical way of slapping down "Obama sicked the IRS on conservatives"
Is that assertion based on any evidence or was it pulled out from the crack of your ass?
Highly doubt the Bush appointed head of IRS at the time this started would have cooperated.
when all of these started i was in the camp of people just saying shit to hurt obama. only one i wanted invistageted was bazna and even on that i defended Obama (still do actually).
now with them going after the media/journalism, teh IRS targeting people and there was something else they did.
From that piece of shit obama: punish your enemies
Agreed, and I think that is the only one of the scandals de jour in which Obama is personally and significantly involved in a scandalous way. I highly doubt we'll find Obama or his direct operatives instructing the IRS to do this, or to deny security at Benghazi, but his inner circle has to make the decisions to investigate and intimidate the press.I have to say that Obama appears to be actively attacking the freedom of the press. It is quite scary actually. Not sure why there hasn't been more outcry about it.
Agreed. Both parties are in love with using the armed might of government to enforce their will on others, and as we see in these threads this isn't just the politicians, it is us. Probably a majority of those on the right see no problem with using government to enforce on others their own preferences of marriage. Probably a majority of those on the left see no problem with using the IRS to handicap voters and groups on the right.Bush this, Obama that....you're all missing the point. It's your government's actions you should be concerned about at the moment. Think about where your rights stood 20 years ago and where they are at now. Better yet, think about everything that has happened since 9/11 or you can keep being distracted by partisan horseshit.
I don't know what's worse, that you think like this or that you're dumb enough to actually post what you're thinking.Wow, so Barack Obama managed to get Lerner a job at the FEC in 1986, got her promoted in 2001 during Bush's term, saw to it she was promoted to head of IRS so he could use her to go after conservatives in 2010!!!
"I don't know." "I don't remember." "I'm not familiar with that detail." "It's not my precise area." "I'm not familiar with that letter."
These are quotes from the Internal Revenue Service officials who testified this week before the House and Senate. That is the authentic sound of stonewalling, and from the kind of people who run Washington in the modern age—smooth, highly credentialed and unaccountable. They're surrounded by legal and employment protections, they know how to parse a careful response, they know how to blur the essential point of a question in a blizzard of unconnected factoids. They came across as people arrogant enough to target Americans for abuse and harassment and think they'd get away with it.
So what did we learn the past week, and what are the essentials to keep in mind?
We learned the people who ran and run the IRS are not going to help Congress find out what happened in the IRS. We know we haven't gotten near the bottom of the political corruption of that agency. We do not know who ordered the targeting of conservative groups and individuals, or why, or exactly when it began. We don't know who executed the orders or directives. We do not know the full scope or extent of the scandal. We don't know, for instance, how many applicants for tax-exempt status were abused.
We know the IRS commissioner wasn't telling the truth in March 2012, when he testified: "There's absolutely no targeting." We have learned the Lois Lerner lied when she claimed she had spontaneously admitted the targeting in a Q-and-A at a Washington meeting. It was part of a spin operation in which she'd planted the question with a friend. We know the tax-exempt bureau Ms. Lerner ran did not simply make mistakes because it was overwhelmed with requests—the targeting began before a surge in applications. And Ms. Lerner did not learn about the targeting in 2012—the IRS audit timeline shows she was briefed in June 2011. She said the targeting was the work of rogue agents in the Cincinnati office. But the Washington Post spoke to an IRS worker there, who said: "Everything comes from the top."
We know that Lois Lerner this week announced she'd done nothing wrong, and then took the Fifth. ....................
But the most important IRS story came not from the hearings but from Mike Huckabee's program on Fox News Channel. He interviewed and told the story of Catherine Engelbrecht—a nice woman, a citizen, an American. She and her husband live in Richmond, Texas. They have a small manufacturing business. In the past few years she became interested in public policy and founded two groups, King Street Patriots, and True the Vote.
In July 2010 she sent applications to the IRS for tax-exempt status. What followed was not the harassment, intrusiveness and delay we're now used to hearing of. The US government came down on her with full force.In December 2010 the FBI came to ask about a person who'd attended a King Street Patriots function. In January 2011 the FBI had more questions. The same month the IRS audited her business tax returns. In May 2011 the FBI called again for a general inquiry about King Street Patriots. In June 2011 Engelbrecht's personal tax returns were audited and the FBI called again. In October 2011 a round of questions on True the Vote. In November 2011 another call from the FBI. The next month, more questions from the FBI. In February 2012 a third round of IRS questions on True the Vote. In February 2012 a first round of questions on King Street Patriots. The same month the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms did an unscheduled audit of her business. (It had a license to make firearms but didn't make them.) In July 2012 the Occupational Safety and Health Administration did an unscheduled audit. In November 2012 more IRS questions on True the Vote. In March 2013, more questions. In April 2013 a second ATF audit.
All this because she requested tax-exempt status for a local conservative group and for one that registers voters and tries to get dead people off the rolls. Her attorney, Cleta Mitchell, who provided the timeline above, told me: "These people, they are just regular Americans. They try to get dead people off the voter rolls, you would think that they are serial killers."
This week Ms. Engelbrecht, who still hasn't received her exemptions, sued the IRS.
With all the talk and the hearings and the news reports, it is important to keep the essentials of this story in mind.
First, only conservative groups were targeted in this scandal by the IRS. Liberal or progressive groups were not targeted. The IRS leaked conservative groups' confidential applications and donor lists to liberal groups, never the other way around.
I don't know what's worse, that you think like this or that you're dumb enough to actually post what you're thinking.