imported_Tomato
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- Sep 11, 2002
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Is 1 = 0.9999......
Yes, but I prefer writing it out as "1". Makes life easier.
Peace,
Dezign
Is 1 = 0.9999......
Originally posted by: MadRat
What is the positional value of the lowest position in your .999...? If you dare say its "-infinity" then you just confirmed the existense of an infinite position. C'mon, you can do it. Its pathetic that you cannot simply admit that you are using infinity as the positional limit of your 9's. To say that there is no end to the nines only confirms that you are using infinity.
Originally posted by: MadRat
The integer is a "1", as I've repeatedly said. Lets see, your question asked something it answered...
Originally posted by: MadRat
I do say it is at N with N being equal to -infinity, just as you'd need to define the infinitely placed last "9" in the .999...! LOL. You just don't get it that you're either going to prove we're both right or neither theory is right. You cannot have a truth that fails this simple litmus test of validity.
I am not sure what this means.You also have this incessant need to use general rules that apply to Real numbers for infinity, in the case of finding the difference from 1 and .999... numbers
Originally posted by: RossGr
Likewise, there is no lowest postition value in .999... I make no effort to specfiy one, other then it is greater then N where N is any integer. I can associate an integer with every 9, you cannot say the same about your 1 at the infinite position. No, the postion value of your 1 (the one at infinity) is not 1, that location is occupied by a 0 (0* 10 ^-1). You cannot specify a postion for your 1, it MUST have an integer associated with it. How many times must I repeate this basic rule for you to actually read it.
Originally posted by: RossGr
You did not give a valid answer to the question last time, thereby proving my point that your 1 at the "infiite postition" does not and cannot exist. To say the position value of the the digit at infinity is infinity is circular reasoning which holds no water, anywhere.
Originally posted by: RossGr
For Nth time Every digit in a Real number MUST have a VALID integer assigned to it. If you cannot assign a valid integer to each digit it is NOT a REAL NUMBER. The basic process is called counting, something that is taught in kindergarden, it is not clear that you understand the concept. According to your methods you would count 1,2,3... infinity, and then must be done. The way I count it is 1,2,3,.....N, N+1, N+2,... I never reach any digit called infinity there is always a next integer. NOt only do YOU get to infinity YOU claim to be able to count infinity + 1, this is nonsence, infinity is not a number, by its very nature it corresponds to NO integer.
Originally posted by: RossGr
Buzz Lightyear must be your idol..."To Infinity And beyond!" Sorry to me it just a cartoon, not something to base mathematics on.
Originally posted by: RossGr
Are you saying that there is a flaw with writitng
.999.... = .9 + .0999...
Why is that not a completely valid statement, note that both sides of the eqation have a infinite tail, I do NO operation that effects any digit beyone the 1st. I do not bump anything off to infinity, waiting for it to vanish, in fact I do NOTHING with infinity, other then to carry it along.
so if you can not count all the digits then it is not a number? so pi isn't a number? sqrt(2) isn't a number?Originally posted by: MadRat
Originally posted by: RossGr
For Nth time Every digit in a Real number MUST have a VALID integer assigned to it. If you cannot assign a valid integer to each digit it is NOT a REAL NUMBER. The basic process is called counting, something that is taught in kindergarden, it is not clear that you understand the concept. According to your methods you would count 1,2,3... infinity, and then must be done. The way I count it is 1,2,3,.....N, N+1, N+2,... I never reach any digit called infinity there is always a next integer. NOt only do YOU get to infinity YOU claim to be able to count infinity + 1, this is nonsence, infinity is not a number, by its very nature it corresponds to NO integer.
You've missed the whole concept of infinity if that is the definition you've chosen. Deductive reasoning with that definition would lend one to dismiss .999... as a Real number. Since you cannot count the 9's then it must not exist on the number line.
Not only have I previously given you a valid expression of the infinite position, I've also shown how to display .999... using a base numbering system based on infinity.
You've missed the whole concept of infinity if that is the definition you've chosen. Deductive reasoning with that definition would lend one to dismiss .999... as a Real number. Since you cannot count the 9's then it must not exist on the number line.
The difference is that your operation happens at the 10^-1 position, not at an infinite position, therefore you do not violate any logical conventions with this operation. This doesn't have anything to do with your argument.
Originally posted by: MadRat
Infinity has never meant unlimited except when used in Latin. Infinity in modern language simply implies an indeterminate number.
If we do take your "unlimited" defintion then you make .999... into a number outside the Real numbers. Why? Because the meaning of .999... is immeasurable IF the position has no definitive limit. You may theorize that all positions in the sequence will be 9's, but can you write out the number to prove it? No. Without a way to prove the concept it must be judged as invalid.
I think you soothsayers should take a dose of your own medicine and realize the .999...=1 argument is futile.
Originally posted by: spidey07
Contains the series and actual proof
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.0.9999.html
Originally posted by: RossGr
Still wrong, there is no end to the integers, I can assign every 9 an integer, simply by counting, by ones, or twos, or millions or hundreds of millions. A nine for every integer, and integer for every nine each is specified. I NEVER arrive at some integer called infinity, it does not exist.You've missed the whole concept of infinity if that is the definition you've chosen. Deductive reasoning with that definition would lend one to dismiss .999... as a Real number. Since you cannot count the 9's then it must not exist on the number line.
Originally posted by: RossGr
Just goes to show that you either did not read or could not understand the proof. That is only operation I did. I DO NOT DO ANY OPERATION ON A DIGIT AT INFINITY. Is it somehow not true that .9...9 + .0...0999... Where the ellipsis in the middle represents the ommission of the SAME FINITE number of digits is not true? The only statement I make about .0...0999... is that it is greater then zero. Do you claim that to be false? Perhaps you ought to do yourself, and all of us, a favor and actually go back and examine the Proof.
Originally posted by: RossGr
I am forced to work with this definition if I am dealing with the real number system.
Originally posted by: BigNeko
Well,
welcome to the flame fest. I sense that some folks are getting uncomfortable with this, but they can always go elsewhere.
MadRat, RossGR was being reasonable, and he is at least trying to show us why he thinks he is right. Since he is one of maybe two here doing this, cut him slack and stay on topic.
As to Exhibit A, Galileo must have been a moron also. Cool
Originally posted by: bleeb
By stating the fact that the people who say that 0.9999 != 1 are "ignorant masses" no doubt labels you as a "close-minded bastard". Please try to keep this reasonable please. What the "masses" believed at the time was dependent on the available technology and relative state of knowledge. The world was flat to people because they were immersed in it. They weren't able to determine it otherwise...
And the statement regarding the cheese. I'm not sure if people actually believed the moon was made of cheese, but there was a greater point that I was trying to make. And that point was to show that the people believed in one thing because they were limited by the current state of knowledge. This might be the case now with you.
0.9999.... != 1
Q.E.D.
"... the people who say that 0.9999 != 1 are "ignorant masses" ... They weren't able to determine it otherwise... And ... I'm not sure if ... 0.9999.... != 1"
All metrics must be fit within limits. Infinity is a valid positional limit as long as your operations do not affect that position. Infinite in that case means that it is an indeterminate location, not that it is sitting in some finite position.
There is no position for the tail by your definition of infinite, therefore you cannot assign an "unlimited" number a nines any value.
mean?therefore you cannot assign an "unlimited" number a nines any value.
Awww, you are going to say there is no subtraction.
Originally posted by: RossGr
All I get from your posts are questions. They do not contain any mathematics that I have ever seen, where did you get these ideas? Did you ever learn to count?
Originally posted by: GermyBoy
You are all stupid. No, it doesn't. It is fact.
Infinity cannot be reached ever.
God does not exist.
All facts.
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: GermyBoy
You are all stupid. No, it doesn't. It is fact.
Infinity cannot be reached ever.
God does not exist.
All facts.
Care to read the thread or any of the numerous proofs? No one is trying to reach infinity here.
MadRat: You keep posting "You cannot do that," "that is invalid," "you must do it this way," etc, yet you do not show what you can do, what is valid instead, or how you must treat things. You spout things off in english, but you have not demonstrated anything mathematically.